ns2_fusion

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  • PelargirPelargir Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff
    Mouse wrote: »
    Because I'm making so many changes I should probably ask both of you (and whoever else winds up reading this post) some questions about the map:
    1) Which parts of the map shouldn't change?
    2) Which parts of the map need to change?

    I need to think about that. I will let you know.
  • lotnik190lotnik190 Poland Join Date: 2013-08-31 Member: 187394Members
    Mouse wrote: »
    Because I'm making so many changes I should probably ask both of you (and whoever else winds up reading this post) some questions about the map:
    1) Which parts of the map shouldn't change?
    2) Which parts of the map need to change?

    Well, in my opinion whole map needs way more detailing. You did very good texturing, but that isn't even close to be enough. Map needs more probes, lightning, atmospherics, cinematics (like steam jets, or rotating fans) etc.. This is a lot of work. Anyway, I played a couple of rounds on this map and it feels good. Good job, but map needs more work :)
  • MauvaisVitrierMauvaisVitrier France Join Date: 2014-04-10 Member: 195291Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond
    Mouse wrote: »
    Thanks for the news and the feedback @MauvaisVitrier! It's sometimes hard to keep track of whether your map is actually getting played.

    @Pelargir‌ I'm actually half way through building a more compressed version of the map. I'm not sure whether it's a good idea just yet.
    Current changelog:
    - Marine start moved north
    - Storage moved south
    - Storage to Fortress vent removed
    - Shortcut to Lower Passage hallway removed
    - Fortress to Shortcut hallway + Shortcut redesigned
    - Lower Passage node redesigned
    - Slice to Upper Passage hallway redesigned
    + probably one or two more changes

    Because I'm making so many changes I should probably ask both of you (and whoever else winds up reading this post) some questions about the map:
    1) Which parts of the map shouldn't change?
    2) Which parts of the map need to change?
    You're working on a more compressed version of the map ? To have an even smaller map that it already is. Hmm I don't know, its size feels kind of perfect right now (it's a small map, but not too small). Although the Alien start tech point feels a bit small, narrow. It's always a mess when all aliens get out of this room as the game starts.

    To answer you I feel that this part of the map deserves more details, it feels really empty :
    from here1tXVBXe.jpgto herep4JkKEG.jpg

    Marines start feels kind of empty too, but it is well designed. Fortress is weird as fuck but I like it, Observation is well designed although a little bit tiny (maybe because of the hive location within the tech point, I don't know). Unloading is kind of empty though, like the rest of the hallway leading to marines start (as I mentionned above). Above Unloading feels less empty because of the res rooms' and corridors' design, so it's okay.

    Yeah more details in general should do the trick. Everyone is telling you the same thing. Map is really good, well designed but really lacks details. Every official map has an identity, something specific in its design or atmosphere, that's what your map lacks a bit at the moment. But man, I'm really looking forward to seeing more in the next updates. I'll try to get back to you after our gathers to let you know our feedback regarding balance and stuff. We tried it once, but the server was itching as fuck this day so we switched to an NSL one that had not Fusion on it, too bad..


    ps : about the parts that shouldn't change, I think the whole vertical line at the centre of the map shouldn't be changed (except this crazy vent-like shortcut that goes from cascade to shortcut :O). The left side feels great too, I don't see what you could change there (except adding small details here and there)
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
    Mouse wrote: »
    Thanks for the news and the feedback @MauvaisVitrier! It's sometimes hard to keep track of whether your map is actually getting played.

    @Pelargir‌ I'm actually half way through building a more compressed version of the map. I'm not sure whether it's a good idea just yet.
    Current changelog:
    - Marine start moved north
    - Storage moved south
    - Storage to Fortress vent removed
    - Shortcut to Lower Passage hallway removed
    - Fortress to Shortcut hallway + Shortcut redesigned
    - Lower Passage node redesigned
    - Slice to Upper Passage hallway redesigned
    + probably one or two more changes

    Because I'm making so many changes I should probably ask both of you (and whoever else winds up reading this post) some questions about the map:
    1) Which parts of the map shouldn't change?
    2) Which parts of the map need to change?


    What are the distance times ?

    "Distance Time" means the amount of second between the starting point of interest (TPs / RTs) to the next. Use a running Marine. You can compare this to the official maps.

    Under 10 sec => a little short
    10-15 sec => Feels ok
    Above 15 sec -> a little long.

    Even if the map feels huge or whatever the timings are the best. Trust it.

    Also test with bots (cheat 1 ; autobuild; addbot x 1; addbot (x-1) 2) then play commander; And you will see many bug to fix.

    Small maps have a bad tendency to evolve in stomping. A bad start never is salvageable (veil stuff like that).
  • PelargirPelargir Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff
    That's right your map needs some props & stuff to be added to make it more detailed, balanced for both sides & more pleasant to see aesthetically. Layout seems correct in my opinion and I keep thinking Fusion is one of my favorites custom maps. So good luck beforehand for everything you should have to do! :)
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    edited August 2014
    I've only played one round on this map, but for what it's worth, it was an enjoyable game.

    I feel like with the minimal props and lack "finishing touches", it reminds me a lot more of an ns1 map in a good way. IMO the textures and semi-starkness lend to a sort of grungy, industrial, half-life oneish feel. For me it feels nostalgic in a way, however not nostalgic like the ns1 maps that have made it to ns2 like veil, eclipse, caged, etc... Nostalgic in a way that's not limited or affected by previous expectations.

    Dunno what I'm tryin to say exactly, I guess, just that I for one think that the minimalist appeals of the map make for a different and varied mood compared to both official and custom maps I've played. If there is an addition of props and things, I just hope the sort of mood of the map can be retained because after a while everything prop-wise starts to look like remixes of summfineryclipsescentdome... errrrr.. you know what I mean. I like that this feels different.
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    The main reason I've been thinking about moving the MS up is that I've had a couple of people grumble that the MS is too far away from its naturals and that the hallway from Shortcut to Lower Passage makes it almost impossible for the marines to hold the Lower Passage node. The reason for moving Storage down is that the stairs between Storage & Fortress are a bit odd and I've always found it a bit odd how Storage sticks out from the rest of the map. Though these changes aren't set in, I've been playing around in my workshop file instead of the file for the current version.

    Fixing the crevice under the middle of the map will be easy enough, I'll probably just block off the area under Slice.

    @2cough‌ That's actually what I've been trying to do. Use a decent amount of smooth corners and sharp edges to give the map its look. That hasn't worked everywhere (in decent part because I haven't put enough effort into achieving that look), but Marine Start, Alien Start, Server & Chasm are the locations I'm happiest with.
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Update out

    changelog:
    - Path under Slice has been blocked
    - Props!
  • MauvaisVitrierMauvaisVitrier France Join Date: 2014-04-10 Member: 195291Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond
    edited August 2014
    @Mouse Sweet, taking a look at it right away. I'll let you know what I think of it :)

    btw, I love what you did with the vents in general, there are some great ones.

    feedback on the update :
    - great thing you did blocking the path under slice. it forces lerks and skulks to go out in the open (and take risks) if they want to keep progressing.

    - level of detail in lower passage to unloading is fine, still a bit too poor though. unless you ment this long ass corridor to be marine-friendly, I find it very hard to dodge, avoid marines' bullets, or even stay hidden to try to brain marines. plus it must be pretty hard to run away from them once they saw you, both in early with skulks and mid-late game with lerks and fades. This corridor is large, high, empty and pretty straight.
    We'll have to see during an actual game (comp game too) if that's a problem or not. Maybe a few objects here and there (not too much) could allow these aliens to get behind cover for a bit when escaping.
    If you clearly wanted a marine friendly environnement in these rooms, then I'm fine with. Just wanted to know if that's intended. :)

    ps : didn't that much change except these two points. Have I missed something ? :)
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited August 2014
    Nope, you haven't missed anything. Given what you & @Pelargir‌ have been saying about the layout being alright as it is, I've been holding off on making any of the bigger changes that I mentioned in my earlier posts. So for now it's just adding props & detail. Which is something I'm trying to do while keeping the map feeling smooth.
    Lower Passage is supposed to be pretty marine friendly. It's a marine natural and that has 2 entrances from the middle of the map and the top of that corridor to Upper Passage is where first contact tends to occur. I think if I made that corridor more alien friendly, that node would become pretty difficult to hold.
  • MauvaisVitrierMauvaisVitrier France Join Date: 2014-04-10 Member: 195291Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond
  • PelargirPelargir Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff
    Okay, I just had a fast overview on your map again 'cause I was alone and it's pretty hard to test things in that case. It should be better with experienced players on a 6 vs. 6 game or even on a public server like SCC does every sundays.

    Nevertheless, I found out your latest changes & it feels a bit better now. Let me tell that Lower Passage seems to be more logical than it was before. The RT can be built easily by Marines but Aliens can also go through the ground from Shortcut corridor & kill the builder(s) if he's sneaky & silent enough. But something that bothers me is where you placed the Power Node. According of the room, it makes sense but the said corridor I already mentioned is not wide enough and the barrier cannot save by itself a Marine building the Node here. Contrary to the RT where Marines can get a small chance to counter, The Node is too easily reachable by Aliens from Shortcut. You should move it near the existing prop. Like this, if both Marines go here from their main, seems legit when a game starts, they will be able to protect each other. Currently, even if I did not test it yet, I don't really think it's possible. I'm pretty sure first contact will occur here.

    Upper Passage looks fine, you did not change anything there anyway.

    Slice: you blocked the path that is fair enough. But now, it looks a little bit weird. 'Cause of the ground I guess so that is buggy for now. Same for the ceiling. Textures & these kinds of holes are... hum...bad? But I suppose that's only details and they will be improved later.

    Not sure if you made other changes but I think everything is fine at the moment. I just noticed a few shadow bug in Observation between both tubes for the infestation. Actually, the infestion on these tubes are too dark so it must be a shadow effect or something. Node in Observation, even if I don't really think Marines would often try to build it is very bad placed. It's just impossible to don't die here if you're building.

    Did you remove again the glass in Server? This place in lerk is terrible. Don't even attempt to build the RT here when a lerk is spiking you.

    You added a box in Fortress to go up via the corridor from Storage and that is awesome.
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Thanks for the feedback Pelagir :)

    I have a different layout ready for the Lower Passage node that puts the power & node in a decent spot relative to each other. But it doesn't really have an exit for the path from Shortcut. The path would either need to be stupidly long or a vent. I might put some screenshots up later today.

    Now that the path under Slice is blocked I'll remove the mounds between Slice & Shortcut and Slice & Cascade. I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about with the floor & ceiling of Slice.

    Could you get a screenshot of the shadow bug in Observation?

    I removed the glass in Server because people kept trying to jump through it. That has left the hallway really long, but I haven't thought of a better way of dealing with that just yet. I might wind up moving the power & the node.
  • PelargirPelargir Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff
    Here is the shadow bug in Observation: it really depends where the infestation appears. The last time, it was between both tubes, so that's a bit different here.
    D838A24405F6E34F361D29F6A03D11988D831759

    And I was talking about these 2 things in Slice.
    FA7D22385E92CC859340618DACEC2F6954EEFDDC
    86F10B67B0723535541E1044AA37672776D200CB

    Unfortunately, I lost the screenshot I took before about the Hive in Fortress that can be reached & killed with some ARCs from Slice, through the wall & so, just not possible to defend for Aliens 'cause there are so many corridors between the Hive & the ARCs. So yeah, this is not the main Aliens Hive but something must be done I think.
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited August 2014
    Some updates to Lower Passage & Upper Passage. I haven't put these in the public build yet, I'm still playing and deciding if it's a good change.
    Old layout:
    VpZz0zB.jpg

    New layout:
    9egBzrW.jpg

    Screenshots of the new area (lighting & detailing not finished)
    om22fYJ.jpg
    RiQGOR8.jpg
    803liTa.jpg

    [EDIT] oh look, a missing face in the first screenshot -_-

    [EDIT2] @Pelargir‌ I've been undecided about being able to ARC Fortress from Slice for quite a while. For the most part I have no problem with it because Fortress can be pretty difficult to assault. But players keep bringing it up as a concern.
  • MauvaisVitrierMauvaisVitrier France Join Date: 2014-04-10 Member: 195291Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond
    Mouse wrote: »
    Some updates to Lower Passage & Upper Passage. I haven't put these in the public build yet, I'm still playing and deciding if it's a good change.
    Old layout:
    VpZz0zB.jpg

    New layout:
    9egBzrW.jpg

    Screenshots of the new area (lighting & detailing not finished)
    om22fYJ.jpg
    RiQGOR8.jpg
    803liTa.jpg
    First of all, I like the new layout. It kinda isolate the marines' natural RT but that's what you wanted for that room. It makes sense, and it seems to solve the issue @Pelargir was talking about above (about the Power node in that very same room). That was my opinion about the layout.

    About the screenshots : WOW man, I fucking love it. I love what you did with the room and the following corridor. Just have to check in-game, but I think that's a great design for this section. I'd suggest you add it to the public build. Wow, great job man !
    Mouse wrote: »
    [EDIT2] @Pelargir‌ I've been undecided about being able to ARC Fortress from Slice for quite a while. For the most part I have no problem with it because Fortress can be pretty difficult to assault. But players keep bringing it up as a concern.
    Yeah, I was worried at first about this Slice room. But I was talking about that with a friend while we were carefully inspecting the map, the layout, the ambush locations, the vents. and Slice is pretty open, when you look at the vents. So Slice is not that good an arc location.


    TLDR : Amazing job man, keep being awesome
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    New version out

    Changelog
    - New Lower Passage Node
    - New Upper Passage -> Slice path
    - Shortcut -> Lower Passage hallway changed into a Shortcut -> Upper Passage vent
    - misc. detailing

    screenshots
    tkErKok.jpg

    vCKe5sk.jpg

    baDlyZl.jpg

    BAo7uHc.jpg
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Do you think I should make Fortress & Unloading possible start tech points?
  • MauvaisVitrierMauvaisVitrier France Join Date: 2014-04-10 Member: 195291Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond
    edited August 2014
    That's an excellent question... Let me get back to you later on that. At first I'd say no, because you thought and designed your map with two fixed tech points. But you never know. Maybe it's a little too OP right now for aliens to run through the map west to east and vice versa, using vents. But I'm on my cellphone right now, so I haven't the map to look at, nor my pc to try it.

    Ps: in my previous post I talked about the arcs in fortress but I was mistaken, i thought you were talking about ARCing the alien start.. so, sorry my bad. i don't have an opinion regarding fortress. :)
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited September 2014
    And the prettining continues:
    First, Slice & Shortcut (in the current released build)
    Slice

    I4VTZxA.jpg

    165ftDb.jpg

    Shortcut

    941VQ3p.jpg

    iALCNZE.jpg

    Next, Storage (WIP)
    GLNApGT.jpg

    00wd01X.jpg

    3qZoWPK.jpg
  • MauvaisVitrierMauvaisVitrier France Join Date: 2014-04-10 Member: 195291Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond
    Nice, man ! Has the map been updated for tonight's SCC playtest ?
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Yup. The Slice & Shortcut changes are in. But the Storage changes won't be in until next weekend because I'm also changing the layout around Storage (only a little bit).
  • MauvaisVitrierMauvaisVitrier France Join Date: 2014-04-10 Member: 195291Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond
    Fortress has changed ! Didn't remember you said something about that xD
    I'll upload my POV of tonight's SCC playtest tomorrow
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited September 2014
    Oops.

    - Fortress has changed

    [EDIT] :P
    The Fortress tech point (the point itself, not Fortress) has been moved north a little bit so that it can't be ARC'd from Slice. I've also added a few props to make it harder to hit the hive with a GL from Approach.
  • MauvaisVitrierMauvaisVitrier France Join Date: 2014-04-10 Member: 195291Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond
    edited September 2014
    It's all in the title :
    SCC Playtest September 7th 2014 - Replay First Person POV
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited September 2014
    Thanks for the video @MauvaisVitrier‌. At the end of the video someone mentions that fighting around Observation is awkward. Is that for one or both of the teams & could someone guess at why it's awkward?

    In other news, I'm thinking of removing some of the vents throughout the map. At the top of my list are the 2 vents into Fortress. Because you can't ARC Fortress from Slice any more, it's probably safe to remove that vent. I'm not as sure about the vent to Storage.
    The long chain of vents on the right side of the map should probably also be changed, but I haven't decided what to do just yet.
  • MasterGMasterG gmfbst Join Date: 2003-08-24 Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
    Just played a gather on fusion. Only thing that I really noticed this time is that when you try to run(holding shift) as marine the rounded stairs you have built out of faces tend to break up the running. It only happens when going down the stairs, probably because the steps are a little bit too tall so that you kind of fall for a split-second on each step. A possible fix for this would be to double the number of steps so they only have half their current height.
  • PelargirPelargir Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff
    Mouse wrote: »
    In other news, I'm thinking of removing some of the vents throughout the map. At the top of my list are the 2 vents into Fortress. Because you can't ARC Fortress from Slice any more, it's probably safe to remove that vent. I'm as sure about the vent to Storage.
    The long chain of vents on the right side of the map should probably also be changed, but I haven't decided what to do just yet.

    Hum, no.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    Mouse wrote: »
    Thanks for the video @MauvaisVitrier‌. At the end of the video someone mentions that fighting around Observation is awkward. Is that for one or both of the teams & could someone guess at why it's awkward?

    In other news, I'm thinking of removing some of the vents throughout the map. At the top of my list are the 2 vents into Fortress. Because you can't ARC Fortress from Slice any more, it's probably safe to remove that vent. I'm not as sure about the vent to Storage.
    The long chain of vents on the right side of the map should probably also be changed, but I haven't decided what to do just yet.

    It's so very cramped. When you come from the west, you walk directly into the hive, which feels weird - and it's also very cramped. And you can lock the whole thing down with two phasegates. I didn't actually fight much in observation, but I think the height differences don't help, either :\
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Update!
    Storage has been completely rebuilt, moved closer to Fortress
    Transfer & the Transfer -> Storage Vent has been partially rebuilt

    New Layout
    kH2CsDo.jpg

    Storage
    The RT
    3U0ZViN.jpg
    If you get a chance, have a look at the frame of that window in-game and imagine the fun I had trying to make it (I'm a fool)

    The tanks
    vJbpXUa.jpg

    Transfer
    The hallway from Cascade to Transfer & Storage
    jQ8O7Fm.jpg

    The new Transfer vent
    tLf7eXR.jpg
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