Underused or bad things in NS2 , from my experiencee in non competitive
kesuga7
Earth Join Date: 2014-08-22 Member: 198060Members
Earth Join Date: 2014-08-22 Member: 198060Members
Well been playing a bit and i have played enough to see whats not ever used and junk , yeah some of this may already be known
here a list of that and if anyone disagrees or wants to add more feel open to add
Nano shields - Never once in 100 hours have i seen this used , - lower the res cost to 3 and increase the damage reduced possibly but definitely not above 50%
Welder/Weapon drops - now jetpacks may be dropped latergame , but pretty much unless your filthy rich and have already won the game at that point , iv just seen very few welder /shotgun drops
- Aliens , have a few more waythings then marines
Rupture - never once have i been ruptured or seen rupture used - decrease delay time or increase area of rupture explosion?
Ink - another rare ability for aliens , have only seen them on very few occasions and this is due to shade hives unpopularity in pub games which the ability of a shade hive depends on players
Shade hive - need good players for shade hive and it also encourages defensive game play, over the regeneration and armor hive oddly enough
Allot of advanced alien upgrades just seem underused aside from xenoxide , at that point with biomass 6 or 8 its ussualy game over and no one gets to really use the phade/gorge upgrades with marine team conceding at that point
Whips are just dumb or are easily flanked by marines or slow response time :L ,
Edit:
yeah updated title
anyway i guess im sharing experience of what a new player in pub games saw being underused - and with 268 some of that has changed
but yes i probably havn't played on enough different servers to see different things being used
here a list of that and if anyone disagrees or wants to add more feel open to add
Nano shields - Never once in 100 hours have i seen this used , - lower the res cost to 3 and increase the damage reduced possibly but definitely not above 50%
Welder/Weapon drops - now jetpacks may be dropped latergame , but pretty much unless your filthy rich and have already won the game at that point , iv just seen very few welder /shotgun drops
- Aliens , have a few more waythings then marines
Rupture - never once have i been ruptured or seen rupture used - decrease delay time or increase area of rupture explosion?
Ink - another rare ability for aliens , have only seen them on very few occasions and this is due to shade hives unpopularity in pub games which the ability of a shade hive depends on players
Shade hive - need good players for shade hive and it also encourages defensive game play, over the regeneration and armor hive oddly enough
Allot of advanced alien upgrades just seem underused aside from xenoxide , at that point with biomass 6 or 8 its ussualy game over and no one gets to really use the phade/gorge upgrades with marine team conceding at that point
Whips are just dumb or are easily flanked by marines or slow response time :L ,
Edit:
yeah updated title
anyway i guess im sharing experience of what a new player in pub games saw being underused - and with 268 some of that has changed
but yes i probably havn't played on enough different servers to see different things being used
Comments
The weapons drop are underused imo - it's just a huge investment to drop shotguns, you'd have to delay a lot of tech or save a lot of medpacks. But I definetely think that this is an area where teams can improve a lot. You occasionally see some minepack drops, but rarely will you see shotgun drops. Perhaps people are concluding that if you don't have pres for shotguns, game is probably about over anyway - idk.
Rupture, whips, ink and even shade hive are used in competetive fairly regularly actually, even too much imo. I suspect we will see them a lot less now that the commander pres penalty has been removed and you can have a 6th field player instead.
As a Khamm I use rupture and ink given the chance often enough, but I do agree I rarely see it otherwise. Shade hive happens but not often. Webs and fade stab ability I have so rarely see in game.
The problem with alien advanced upgrades is that they come out very late, except for bile bomb which is the most useful.
All pub play.
Brb making a few ghost accounts just so i can click button more.
Seriously though. Have you watched any competitive matches where aliens use shade hive? Been in a few, it's brown trousers time.
Nanoshields used to be how you describe - they were over-used.
Weapon drops - Filthy rich buggers SHOULD contribute to the team, working as intended.
Fade stab - whilst usually useless.. i've seen some fades be the most annoying buggers with it.
Webs probably could use a bit more usefulness.
Ink is the most useful ability in the game. Ever been arc rushed? No? I envy you.
Rupture can help underskilled players kill highly skilled players, or just over kitted solo's in your hive.
Whips - Remember when they used to lob nades back? good times...
'tis but a drop on the ocean, my friend.
Most of the things you mentioned get used pretty regularly, you just need to play with people that know they're there, and use them when needed.
Nanoshields used to get used much more, they got a nerf so aren't used as much as they used to though. But catpacks are so much cooler anyway
Weapon drops as you say are mainly when you've got some excess Tres and no players with any Pres - this does happen, and often not in the context of an already-won game. It's there as a crutch, not as a main feature.
Exos - Yeah they're in a bad place at the moment. That'll change if echoes on the forums are any indicator.
Rupture - Any alien comm worth his salt will use this whenever possible, it's freaking awesome.
Ink is only used/needed to delay arcs and as a visual distraction, and yeah like you said, shade hive isnt very popular in lower-skill pubs (if only due to lack of players that understand how to play with it)
Webs - I agree. Everyone does, and it looks like they will be rebalanced soon (maybe today?
Stab - Yeah it's shit. It's really only the fade ups that suck like this, most other life form upgrades are very useful. Again, currently these are undergoing balance changes... I'll add that since you mentioned gorge upgrades not getting used... Bile is basically a must-have for aliens on almost every server I've played on, ever. Dunno how this one's slipped you by :P
And whips - have you played since the last patch at all? You wont want to stand near one anymore, they'll rek u m8
I'm glad, since you can see a few issues you're clearly not a n000b but really at 100 hours I don't think I had even experienced a game where the players had any significant level of competance... Keep playing and trying different servers at different times (dont be afraid of modded or unofficial servers! community in this game is awesome) and I'm sure you'll eventually stumble across a better gaming experience
But remember: in high skilled / comp games alot of the stuff u mention IS used.
There has to be a difference right, if not the game wouldnt have enough depth.
Now for more important matters:
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yes
I guess the topic here is in general is poorly defined. Is OP suggesting that there is a problem here at all, or is he simply pointing out an observation? I don't know. To me, it's not a problem at all, so I guess I don't know what the topic actually IS.
Nah man, same meta, same game, same requirements from players/teams. Its more similar than you think.
Nano shield is very powerful, but requires a bit too much precision in use to be pub-friendly. Old nanoshield that lasted like 8 seconds was much better in this regard.
Shade hive first is actually a very interesting dilemma. Phantom and Aura are plenty powerful, the problem is the marine response. The best way to counter shade first is to move in more coordinated groups. By picking shade you end up hurting yourself by encouraging the enemy to play right.
Thousand hours and enough understanding of the game to know WHY they aren't/are seldom used in pub.
And if they aren't used in pub they are worthless right?
And this thread is about something other than pubs, RIGHT?
Well, I'm just arguing that it is pretty silly to argue about features split between pub and comp. Its the same game, same features the only different factor is the player. So, the player either doesn't know about them, or doesn't want to use them. I use them in pub and comp because I think they are decent in different situations.
You can't just blanket say something is worthless cus pub players don't use it.
Weapon drops feel like a holdover from NS1 that has outlived its importance. Now that marines have pres it feels more like a last resort option than anything else (lifeform eggs are the same way).
I use Rupture quite frequently, and any alien commander who knows what he's doing should do the same. It's a fairly powerful ability to be able to deploy, and it's not that expensive, either. The micro is much easier now that it can be done anywhere on infestation, not just on cysts.
I'd like to see Ink get buffed a bit, it really is only useful for delaying ARCs which feels like a shame. Maybe it could be used to temporarily disable all marine structures in its radius? So echoing in a Shade and Inking could become a strategy? Just spitballing, could be a terrible idea.
Shade hive is just as viable as the other two, I would say. It's just a bit more tricky to play effectively and there's a long standing stigma against it from when it wasn't as good. But Aura is very powerful, Phantom is great when played properly, and hallucinations are better than they used to be (mucous and enzyme receiving reworks in 268 should help too).
Xenocide, you don't want it to be any better, trust me. It's annoying enough as is, and it definitely gets the job done as a late-game siege breaker.
Vortex and Stab were useless, that's why Vortex was removed and Stab has been reworked.
Webs have been moved to bio 5 which should make them more frequently seen.
Whips are really good for what they are, you wouldn't want them to be any better because you don't want a PvE game.
All in all UWE (and now the CDT) has done a good job of gradually making things more useful. Back when this game first came out there were really only a couple things that were useful, and a lot of stuff just felt completely useless. There was a time when umbra was something you'd never see, and now it's one of the best abilities in the game. And if you thought Vortex v. 2 was bad, don't even get me started on the original Vortex. I don't know if that was ever used effectively in any situation.
I seriously disagree about rupture. I've had it used against me (EXTREMELY infrequently) and it basically does nothing to affect my aim. I've tried using it myself and seen about the same results, the marines affected don't seem to play any worse. Maybe it's different for comp players, maybe some minor nuisance can have a huge affect when you are playing so close to perfection, but I would assume that they are even better at dealing with it.
What were webs before, bio 7? I haven't seen them used since the change either, I think commanders are ignoring them because they aren't worth the tres cost. Hasn't been very long so we'll have to see.
Shade hive is powerful. VERY powerful. In order to counter it, marines stick together, scan more, build forward observatories.... all behaviors that make winning as aliens harder. Against a marine team that is already doing all of that, shade first is a viable option, but otherwise it's self defeating.
Whips were buffed in 267, I think they are fine now. I still miss the grenade whack, but their anti-marine abilities are sufficient. The increased tres cost in 268 might be uncalled for though.
Original vortex was better, mostly just as a beacon counter. Both versions were often self defeating, V1 because it would give marines a chance to reload safely, and v2 because it only ended up slowing fades down.
If there was a time when Umbra was bad, I must not have been playing then (and I've been playing about 2 years now). The original problem with umbra was that it was a late game tech, only available on 3 hives after spores were researched.
the big question here is why you would think your opinion on this would be helpful. "im sharing experience of what a new player in pub games saw being underused." what you've shown is that new players don't know how the game works because they're new. but we already knew that. play more.
well the title reads' underused OR bad things my mistake if i wasn't clear on the points- like the nano-shields just being bad or weapon drops underused due to aliens just conceding at that point (everyone just wants to start a new game )
like i said shade hive requires a good team to use it and its definitely not bad but in pub games i just dont see it allot
Ink can be good also but a small buff to the visual ink duration wouldn't hurt and i have been ruptured myself now and it really doesn't effect my aim much , i even asked marines as alien commander if it hindered them and all they said it was annoying but they were still blasting all my teammate skulks that ran at them
i just see marine teams conceding at that point with biomass 7 or 8 so i just don't see them used as often and yeah contaminate can end games , i suppose its a issue of plenty of teams conceding , once i dropped a third hive and the marine team surrendered immediately and you can't blame them because there just absolutely no hope at that point and its funner/better to just start a new game
Nano shields: Hardly do I ever use this as commander
Weapon drops: Not too rare. Most often has to be requested and reminded this option exists. In NS1, dropping stuff
was the only way to attain it. Having the option of a armory and prototype is actually quite a luxury to get it without asking.
Rupture: I'm not even sure of the details of this as alien comm. If I see someone hitting a lone res tower I don't even think
about rupture, i'd rather send a crag/whip over there. What's the aoe radius of rupture? is it effective? I don't remember a time
of it happening to me as a marine.
Ink - It's not often I have veils, and if I do, I only use ink for arcs. If a lone marine runs into the hive for upgrades, he
may just get one before I even consider ink, or for any other purpose than hiding from arcs.
Shade hive - I hate being the team with shade hive first. It sucks as an upgrade. But going against a team of aliens with shade hive first I hate even more.
All the scans required, having obs in different tech points, these are things that are easy to forget. And having
alternate strategies is really powerful compared to the routine we are all used to in games.
It's not used as Stab isn't instantaneous. You have to wait one second after triggering it. The opposite would have been much better. Instant kill but no special fade ability (blink, metabolize) available for a second or two, so he would have to dodge bullets and run. There lies the skill.
A lot of these abilities are situational. You don't use them if not needed. There is no "recipe" for NS2. It a strategy game. The fact that you don't see these things on public server often doesn't mean it's useless. I mean you still have to call for several minutes a base rush on public servers.
Most of these abilities were created and deemed useful at one point in time until the game would change and that ability would become too strong/too weak and would either get overused and nerfed or ignored. For the majority of NS2 development, the developers used adding new abilities/features to try to fix the balance/fun of the game rather than address core issues with gameplay early on or tweaking main abilities. It's the incorrect approach of trying to fix a problem with a feature. A good example of this was when there was an absurbly high amount of marine 1 tech point turtles on pubs (I forget the patch) and lots of aliens teams were unable to end the game. Rather than address the cause and maybe figure out what is leading up to this unwanted result, the UWE fix was "OK let's add this feature called contaminate, designed precisely to address this very specific problem. We will spend all this money on programming time, modeling, etc. and we can spin it as another free DLC-type item!" when in reality it adds little to no depth to the game and still never addressed the root cause.
Weapon Drops: Wrong, they are used
Rupture: Although it does not have much use, sometimes I use it to screw with the marines.
Ink: From my experiences, ink is rarely used, so that's probably true
Vortex Stab and Web: Vortex is used sometimes, stab is almost useless (before 268 at least), web is used sometimes.
Whips: Wrong, they are used quite frequently
Nano Shield: In pubs, rarely used.
Shade hive first: False, they are used. Shade hive first depends whether or not your team can use it properly. As a unit I frequently ask for shade hive first and as a comm I use it pretty often provided my team can use it.