Infestation is UGLY, when will there be a graphical update to infestation? (FOR THE LOVE OF GOD)

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  • PersianImm0rtalPersianImm0rtal Join Date: 2010-12-02 Member: 75414Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester
    Actually, if we can't have transparency, just put tiny holes in the infestation.
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    Actually, if we can't have transparency, just put tiny holes in the infestation.

    Infestation buttholes? Better all Mendasp.
  • lwflwf Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58311Members, Constellation
    aeroripper wrote: »
    I don't think rich infestation looks bad, but it could use some enhancements. I remember the old dev blogs talking about wanting infestation to shut down monitors\lights as it slowly creeped over the walls. This included blocking out light sources (ie.. over a window).

    I still wish there were 3 different levels of infestation depending on the maturity of the cysts in the room (heavy, medium, light). In a hive it would be very thick and covers most of the walls\ceiling and hangs down a bit. One can dream :D

    It would have been really neat to have infestation actually be integrated in the gameplay. It could have provided a relatively small but natural advantage for aliens by blocking sight lines somewhat, without any forced buffs/nerfs like slowed marines or faster healing aliens, just the looks but actually functional. Sadly that was never viable since the placement of blobs is not synced (the server doesn't have to send the position, size and orientation of all blobs, generated infestation would "just" need to be reproducible on all clients, instead of random, or at least random from a synced seed, or even a non dynamic pre-built map of infestation that the map author could tweak. Infestation only grows on static geometry anyway).

    But since it isn't you get (in my opinion) game breaking or at the very least highly annoying and anticompetitive issues in form of vents, corners and windows being fully blocked for one player and not for the other. It also really should hide cysts, upgrades, eggs and whole aliens and crouching marines (maybe this has been toned down since I last played with rich, I don't know)...

    Also turning it off could of course not be allowed since it would be flat out cheating akin to disabling walls being solid, which I'm sure most players that has gotten used to minimal (should be pretty much most regular players but the very most casual, considering the issues mentioned) would hate at this point... Still it would have been an interesting change, and the FPS difference really is minimal (back when I finally switched to minimal I found FPS was even higher in some areas with rich setting on my pretty standard system).
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
    I find it really weird that this game can do shadows/ other lighting features so well, but not transparency within models (though we seem to have glass?)

    Truly transparent surfaces aren't in the game. What the game does to fake it is use an emissive shader (ie with glass). Ever wonder why glass still shows up even when the room is pitch black? It's not really transparent, it's just an extra emissive pass done separately.
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold
    lwf wrote: »

    I'm curious if it could be made so that instead of the rich infestation everyone gets the minimal, but the server spawns synced clogs in infested areas (lik 2 or 3 per cyst), so that is not just a visual eye candy, but something to maybe find cover behind.

    I'm not sure if that would make the server explode though.
  • KungFuJVKungFuJV Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15167Members
    Bicsum wrote: »
    lwf wrote: »

    I'm curious if it could be made so that instead of the rich infestation everyone gets the minimal, but the server spawns synced clogs in infested areas (lik 2 or 3 per cyst), so that is not just a visual eye candy, but something to maybe find cover behind.

    I'm not sure if that would make the server explode though.

    Imagine carefully placing as many as 10 cysts in one room...
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold
    KungFuJV wrote: »
    Bicsum wrote: »
    lwf wrote: »

    I'm curious if it could be made so that instead of the rich infestation everyone gets the minimal, but the server spawns synced clogs in infested areas (lik 2 or 3 per cyst), so that is not just a visual eye candy, but something to maybe find cover behind.

    I'm not sure if that would make the server explode though.

    Imagine carefully placing as many as 10 cysts in one room...

    Diminishing return on max count or spawn time.
  • SamusDroidSamusDroid Colorado Join Date: 2013-05-13 Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    edited August 2014
    aeroripper wrote: »
    I don't think rich infestation looks bad, but it could use some enhancements. I remember the old dev blogs talking about wanting infestation to shut down monitors\lights as it slowly creeped over the walls. This included blocking out light sources (ie.. over a window).

    I still wish there were 3 different levels of infestation depending on the maturity of the cysts in the room (heavy, medium, light). In a hive it would be very thick and covers most of the walls\ceiling and hangs down a bit. One can dream :D

    I had this working, but lost the code, and it would not have been added anyways
    I also had infestation shadows but it was also not wanted


    The problem with making infestation less bubbly is that it looks really bad when it is too thin and a pillar for example.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    That was @Blasphemy‌ who did that, and he's now a PT .
    I believe Sewlek also found a low cost way to do it.

    I have always been surprised that someone hasn't published that or something like it to workshop, I know a few pub servers that would run it.
    You'd need a better flashlight, though..
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    IronHorse wrote: »
    That was @Blasphemy‌ who did that, and he's now a PT .
    I believe Sewlek also found a low cost way to do it.

    I have always been surprised that someone hasn't published that or something like it to workshop, I know a few pub servers that would run it.
    You'd need a better flashlight, though..

    A better flashlight. It would hit the immersive note, while not being overtly non competitive if all aliens had some kind of bioluminescence. Plus that it is plain awesome looking.
  • ritualsacrificeritualsacrifice Join Date: 2012-11-14 Member: 171148Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    james888 wrote: »
    IronHorse wrote: »
    That was @Blasphemy‌ who did that, and he's now a PT .
    I believe Sewlek also found a low cost way to do it.

    I have always been surprised that someone hasn't published that or something like it to workshop, I know a few pub servers that would run it.
    You'd need a better flashlight, though..

    A better flashlight. It would hit the immersive note, while not being overtly non competitive if all aliens had some kind of bioluminescence. Plus that it is plain awesome looking.

    the fact that the lights don't stay off when the power is destroyed has always bothered me. + i think it could add a (possibly) interesting mechanic where you can power surge the destroyed node to turn on emergency lighting for x amount of seconds as your marines push into the room or whatever
  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    james888 wrote: »
    IronHorse wrote: »
    That was @Blasphemy‌ who did that, and he's now a PT .
    I believe Sewlek also found a low cost way to do it.

    I have always been surprised that someone hasn't published that or something like it to workshop, I know a few pub servers that would run it.
    You'd need a better flashlight, though..

    A better flashlight. It would hit the immersive note, while not being overtly non competitive if all aliens had some kind of bioluminescence. Plus that it is plain awesome looking.

    the fact that the lights don't stay off when the power is destroyed has always bothered me. + i think it could add a (possibly) interesting mechanic where you can power surge the destroyed node to turn on emergency lighting for x amount of seconds as your marines push into the room or whatever

    Why use power surge, when you can scan? Besides, I really don't think ns2 needs any more complexity. Complexity != Depth.
  • alsteralster Join Date: 2003-08-06 Member: 19124Members
    I think the ultimate solution would have been if there were 2 maps, one without infestation and one with. The one with infestation would slowly reveal itself as it expands. This way the mapper would have perfectly designed looking infestation anywhere he wanted to. It would make los and blocking issues exactly the same for everyone instead of being only client side.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    alster wrote: »
    I think the ultimate solution would have been if there were 2 maps, one without infestation and one with. The one with infestation would slowly reveal itself as it expands. This way the mapper would have perfectly designed looking infestation anywhere he wanted to. It would make los and blocking issues exactly the same for everyone instead of being only client side.

    Technically highly impractical
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members
    I dont think the current infestation is that bad. Personally I don't mind, but a change of infestation might be interesting. When the devs have the time for something like this, we should try out different concepts.
  • aeroripperaeroripper Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    SamusDroid wrote: »
    aeroripper wrote: »
    I don't think rich infestation looks bad, but it could use some enhancements. I remember the old dev blogs talking about wanting infestation to shut down monitors\lights as it slowly creeped over the walls. This included blocking out light sources (ie.. over a window).

    I still wish there were 3 different levels of infestation depending on the maturity of the cysts in the room (heavy, medium, light). In a hive it would be very thick and covers most of the walls\ceiling and hangs down a bit. One can dream :D

    I had this working, but lost the code, and it would not have been added anyways
    I also had infestation shadows but it was also not wanted


    The problem with making infestation less bubbly is that it looks really bad when it is too thin and a pillar for example.

    Heh I remember that video. I guess mappers would have to set what lights they would want blocked to really make it work. Otherwise if infestation had some kind of diffuse/transparency on it the light would simply be distorted.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    IronHorse wrote: »
    That was @Blasphemy‌ who did that, and he's now a PT .
    I believe Sewlek also found a low cost way to do it.

    I have always been surprised that someone hasn't published that or something like it to workshop, I know a few pub servers that would run it.
    You'd need a better flashlight, though..
    You have the guy as PT and sewlek not only had it working but had it at a low cost. So rereading this, I am hearing that this is a possibility in the not so distant future with enough public support?
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    IronHorse wrote: »
    @james888‌
    I wish ;)
    You don't think it can happen or you don't think enough public support can be acquired?
  • BensonBenson Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    I say start one of those fancy polls I've seen and see what the public opinion is on this new lighting/infestation stuff.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2014
    Benson wrote: »
    I say start one of those fancy polls I've seen and see what the public opinion is on this new lighting/infestation stuff.
    If we were to do that we would see a few things. We would probably see a clear line between competitive oriented players and public oriented players. I am not talking comp mod playing players either although many of them probably play comp mod often. You can already see that somewhat in this thread. To gather strong public opinion first we would need to flesh out how it would be implemented in a way that makes both kinds of players happy.

    The easiest way of doing this would be to get a mod made for testing purposes which shouldn't be too hard. It would be even better if we could get this tested on a popular server but that might be asking too much. Things we would be testing for is taking that beautiful bioluminescence and making it more competitive. Flashlight changes would be needed and maybe more but I don't know what.

    From there if we have a working mod that people are mostly happy with we would just need a certain statistical sample size of people to see if there is strong enough public opinion. With a playerbase of 500 we would only need 217 people to approve of it to have a confidence level that at least 90% of ns2 players would like it. With a player base of 1000 we would need 278. The last time I saw one of those fancy polls it had 243 people respond which I assume are the most dedicated ns2 fans. The question is do we need 90%? Can we get 217 people to even do a poll? Can we actually get bioluminescence in a state where even 75% of players approve?
    If 75% approved, would we lose 25% of our small player base?'


    Reference this sample size calculator.
  • ritualsacrificeritualsacrifice Join Date: 2012-11-14 Member: 171148Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    SantaClaws wrote: »
    james888 wrote: »
    IronHorse wrote: »
    That was @Blasphemy‌ who did that, and he's now a PT .
    I believe Sewlek also found a low cost way to do it.

    I have always been surprised that someone hasn't published that or something like it to workshop, I know a few pub servers that would run it.
    You'd need a better flashlight, though..

    A better flashlight. It would hit the immersive note, while not being overtly non competitive if all aliens had some kind of bioluminescence. Plus that it is plain awesome looking.

    the fact that the lights don't stay off when the power is destroyed has always bothered me. + i think it could add a (possibly) interesting mechanic where you can power surge the destroyed node to turn on emergency lighting for x amount of seconds as your marines push into the room or whatever

    Why use power surge, when you can scan? Besides, I really don't think ns2 needs any more complexity. Complexity != Depth.

    idk, robo start with no obs or something. i agree about the complexity tho.
  • MrFangsMrFangs Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184474Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    james888 wrote: »

    I'd really love to see this happen... it looks awesome.

    I'm just wondering how this would combine with Shades? The most likely thing would be the Shade suppressing all light from cloaked buildings and cysts - otherwise, the lighting would be a dead giveaway. "Shoot this general area, please!"

    So this would result in a pitch black room, which lights up when the Shade takes damage, and goes dark again when the cloak effect returns? (I'm not saying that this is bad, just pointing this out.)

    Possible workaround for this: Make the Shade *permanently* prevent all luminiscence in its area of effect, and only remove the *cloaking* effect when it takes damage. This would, of course, make it a bit more powerful, but the whole idea needs to be balanced anyway.
  • meatmachinemeatmachine South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    edited August 2014
    Meh, I think that screenshot only looks that good because cysts are on the walls etc too.
    I could take or leave it; it looks kinda nice but really doesn't add much to gameplay.
  • Cannon_FodderAUSCannon_FodderAUS Brisbane, AU Join Date: 2013-06-23 Member: 185664Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    james888 wrote: »

    With a playerbase of 500 we would only need 217 people to approve of it to have a confidence level that at least 90% of ns2 players would like it. With a player base of 1000 we would need 278. The last time I saw one of those fancy polls it had 243 people respond which I assume are the most dedicated ns2 fans. The question is do we need 90%? Can we get 217 people to even do a poll? Can we actually get bioluminescence in a state where even 75% of players approve?
    If 75% approved, would we lose 25% of our small player base?'


    Reference this sample size calculator.

    Correction: player base is more like at least 1600. I just checked hive, and about 1600 have a skill rating that is NOT 1000 (at least 1001). So at least 1600 have played it a bit since the skill reset to 1000. Also, I didn't check the other end (the guys with less than 1000), so the number of players unique is more than we think.
  • NeXuSNeXuS US Join Date: 2013-10-13 Member: 188681Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    edited August 2014
    Jekt wrote: »
    47f141667347c2c3c72f576558855d.png
    This as minimal infestation. Please this.

  • METROIDMETROID Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165171Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Please, do not ruin the infestation!
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
    I don't like that infestation completely covers up all the hard work the mapper did to make the room pretty. :(
  • METROIDMETROID Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165171Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    That is the point in the infestation! It must completely change the environment to make it hostile and unrecognizable.
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