bile rush on large servers

KobeKobe USA Join Date: 2014-06-03 Member: 196367Members
edited June 2014 in NS2 General Discussion
How often do you guys see this in pub games:

Marines are doing extremely well and are on the verge of winning the game, and all of a sudden, marine base is bile rushed by a group of gorges and all structures get wiped in less than 5 seconds. Most of the time it's GG instantly, while sometimes marines are able to recover with a second CC but only live to turtle the inevitable death since it cost 100+ res to rebuild all the structures.

Obviously this would never happen in a competitive game since the game is balanced around 6v6 and it's impossible for aliens to have so many gorges. But on a 18p+ pub server, having 4 or more gorges to bile rush is common practice when you can still have 5+ players defending the hive.

Possible solutions:

* cap the number of gorges allowed on alien team according to player count
* scale marine structure hp according to player count (only apply to structures in techpoint room with CC present)
* both
«13

Comments

  • It's Super Effective!It's Super Effective! Join Date: 2012-08-28 Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    The coordination of many gorges preparing to do a bile rush is easily trumped by having an attentive commander who scans his main base's flankinhmg rooms. Also having people watch lanes.
  • CalegoCalego Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181848Members, NS2 Map Tester
    That's kinda the point of Bile. Thing is, those gorges can be stopped by either an attentive commander or a few people on Phase Duty whose sole purpose at this point in time is to stop the evil red flashy icons that appear on maps. Here's a tip, next time you notice that your team is doing very well and there's limited alien interaction on the field, grab yourself a shotgun and camp gates. You know the signs now, that means it's up to you to stop it.

    An entire team getting out of position is a big problem, being able to exploit that is called a strategy (or perhaps a play, not sure).

    I agree it's frustrating and even a little cheezy, but I'll keep doing it to others and I expect it done to me.
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members
    Simply put: You lose because the other team is more competent than yours is.
  • RaZDaZRaZDaZ Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167331Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited June 2014
    In pub games, any good marine comm/team is going to either to do the following or a combination:

    1) Frequently scout the outskirts of main base either with marines, MACs or scans
    2) Have a second base with at least 1 CC, 1 Arms and 1 IP
    3) Marine comm being prepared for any potential rush when things are 'going well', aliens are extremely predictable in pubs as to when they will rush a base
    4) When you have 3 base and a good RT count, aliens will resort to either rushing your base or coordinating big attacks on important locations, both of which are solved by scouting and/or splitting forces
    5) Have 10 tres free at all times passed the 5min mark for a beacon
    6) Have robo up in another base or 2 robos up in separate locations for surge

    If a team is resorting to bile rushes, it usually means they're not in great shape therefore in most cases, it is more than likely to be a big investment delaying higher lifeforms even further which makes it easier for marines to end the game if they survive the rush. It's simply an ALL-IN if it is defended adequately.

    It can happen and it does happen to the best commanders and teams, sometimes scouting and being prepared falls to the wayside for a minute or two a well executed and well timed rush can end the game but good commanders rarely lose this way if their team can accomplish what they need.

    Gorge rushes are easily countered...most marine comms are just dumb and follow the meta but I digress.
  • xen32xen32 Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Gorges are 8-10 res, I wouldn't call that all-in.
  • RaZDaZRaZDaZ Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167331Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    xen32 wrote: »
    Gorges are 8-10 res, I wouldn't call that all-in.

    Add the gorge tunnel for one player and it pretty much is for a team on 2-3 RTs of which most gorge rushes occur in pubs. Teams that discover they are struggling instantly start to get sneaky tunnels up around the main bases.

    You're already against a team that likely has better income and tech. As far as I'm concerned, it is an all-in unless the alien team tries a gorge rush while on a good RT count.
  • DecoyDecoy Join Date: 2012-09-11 Member: 159037Members, Super Administrators, Playtest Lead, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts, Retired Community Developer
    Kobe wrote: »
    Possible solutions:

    * cap the number of gorges allowed on alien team according to player count
    * scale marine structure hp according to player count (only apply to structures in techpoint room with CC present)
    * both

    We are not going to do either of those things. Bile rushes are countered by scanning / routeblocking to catch the rush before they're in your base.

    As others have said, if you have little to no alien contact for any period of time, keep an eye out for rushes.
  • dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
    Im sure hes is playing often on the 42 slot wooza server.
    Your chair is going down in around 3 seconds there with 7 gorges, while there still enough aliens somewhere else on the map.

    So you want more "balanced" games?
    Then dont play on this kind of servers.
  • MrPinkMrPink Join Date: 2002-05-28 Member: 678Members
    It only happens if

    1. Marine comm doesn't pay attention
    2. Marine players don't lane
    3. Marine comm fails to react in time

    so if the marines essentially screw up 3 times they deserve to lose
  • freebirdpatfreebirdpat Join Date: 2004-04-10 Member: 27826Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    On these large servers, marines are also able to just walk into a hive and blast it out of the sky just as fast. Seen a hive go down to 0 after 3 reloads of my LMG. The battle goes both ways.
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
    Kobe wrote: »
    How often do you guys see this in pub games:

    Marines are doing extremely well and are on the verge of winning the game, and all of a sudden, marine base is bile rushed by a group of gorges and all structures get wiped in less than 5 seconds. Most of the time it's GG instantly, while sometimes marines are able to recover with a second CC but only live to turtle the inevitable death since it cost 100+ res to rebuild all the structures.

    Obviously this would never happen in a competitive game since the game is balanced around 6v6 and it's impossible for aliens to have so many gorges. But on a 18p+ pub server, having 4 or more gorges to bile rush is common practice when you can still have 5+ players defending the hive.

    Possible solutions:

    * cap the number of gorges allowed on alien team according to player count
    * scale marine structure hp according to player count (only apply to structures in techpoint room with CC present)
    * both

    Possible solution: Don't let that happen. If you're watching your lanes and keeping tabs on alien activity, that won't catch you by surprise.
  • Vert^Vert^ Join Date: 2013-01-22 Member: 181227Members
    I don't see the point of removing something that makes gameplay interesting. Bile rush as others have stated before me, have many counters and it's very cost ineffecient, if it happens to fail. Plenty of drawback, huge gain and always funny to witness imo!
  • FrankerZFrankerZ Join Date: 2012-05-06 Member: 151627Members
    its nice because as a marine youre always on your toe and something devastating can still happen late into a game when it looks like aliens cant win
  • HeatSurgeHeatSurge Some Guy Join Date: 2012-09-15 Member: 159438Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited June 2014
    How often do I see it? Hardly ever.

    When I see it, it usually involves terribleness either in the commander position, the players, or both.

    Possible solution:

    Don't be bad at the game.
  • Goliath VietnamGoliath Vietnam Join Date: 2013-01-07 Member: 178080Members
    Its a Suprise on battlefield , Comander can anti - gore rush by Beacon >> click on near Observatory

    Build hidden Observatory in corner near base ( not in base) , or put 2 observatory to maximize Scan area
  • WobWob Join Date: 2005-04-08 Member: 47814Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Is everyone basically saying l2p?
  • AnzestralAnzestral Join Date: 2013-05-21 Member: 185327Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
    dePARA wrote: »
    Im sure hes is playing often on the 42 slot wooza server.
    Your chair is going down in around 3 seconds there with 7 gorges, while there still enough aliens somewhere else on the map.

    So you want more "balanced" games?
    Then dont play on this kind of servers.

    Normally on servers that big marines have huuuge advantage anyway because they can block every lane with 5+ players moving forward slowly building extractors and killing alien harvesters. Probably the marine comm just shouldn't drop a pg anywhere because those seem to attract players and suddenly you have 10+ players in the pg room but no marines elsewhere on the map opening lanes for rushes.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    Anzestral wrote: »
    dePARA wrote: »
    Im sure hes is playing often on the 42 slot wooza server.
    Your chair is going down in around 3 seconds there with 7 gorges, while there still enough aliens somewhere else on the map.

    So you want more "balanced" games?
    Then dont play on this kind of servers.

    Normally on servers that big marines have huuuge advantage anyway because they can block every lane with 5+ players moving forward slowly building extractors and killing alien harvesters. Probably the marine comm just shouldn't drop a pg anywhere because those seem to attract players and suddenly you have 10+ players in the pg room but no marines elsewhere on the map opening lanes for rushes.

    Nah, santa is just jumping to conclusions again.
  • MuckyMcFlyMuckyMcFly Join Date: 2012-03-19 Member: 148982Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    Marine JP and nade attack on Cargo or Warehouse (nightmare to defend) equally annoying but again a valid win. I agree its frustrating but there are ways to counter it and looking at the disagrees I think that's how most see it. Sorry :-S
  • meatmachinemeatmachine South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    edited June 2014
    Yes @MuckyMcFly‌ JP GL rush on a hive is kinda marines counterpart to bile, lots and lots of structure damage all from so few players... Depending on the size of the room JPGLs are a bit harder to counter too, at the cost of being much more expensive (plus since the splash damage is kinda shit you need marines that know what they're doing and actually hit the hive with every nade)
  • RCKilmRCKilm US Join Date: 2013-11-05 Member: 189019Members
    I think the only reason something like this has ever frustrated me was because I hadn't paid attention, scanned, etc. Otherwise, if you have a comm that's keeping an eye out and has nano handy, it isn't too big of a deal. Heck even a good shotgunner or two can stop em dead in their adorable belly dragging attacks.
  • SaltlickSaltlick Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177347Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Games can already be decided within the first five minutes. If we keep nerfing unpredictability, we might as well just scrap gameplay and instead compare build orders to decide the winner.
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    Kobe the new Coolitic?
  • CCTEECCTEE Join Date: 2013-06-20 Member: 185634Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    joshhh wrote: »
    Kobe the new Coolitic?

    22 vs 424 disagrees. He has a long way to go!
  • current1ycurrent1y Join Date: 2003-12-08 Member: 24150Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    Route blocking solves this issue. If you are commander make sure your team is never on just 1 side of the map. It happens EXTREMELY frequently in pubs of all sizes allowing for gorge rushes to be quite effective. Even solo gorges in 16 player games are extremely deadly.

    The game does require some form of teamwork. As much as some of us just like to think our teammates are just meatsheilds we do need them sometimes unfortunately.



Sign In or Register to comment.