Why do Marine comm's refuse to help their team...

MoFoMoFo Join Date: 2013-09-09 Member: 188047Members
This is something that has been bothering me for awhile, why is it that most Marine commanders refuse to do the little things that would majorly help the Marines...

Example:

Why refuse to drop power in glass hallway on summit? It's completely free to drop and allows Marines to climb into the glass/reactor vent...

or

Why refuse to drop a Robotics lab near the vent in Bar on Docking? Chances are you'll end up sending arcs towards Locker eventually, and a cheap Robo lab would let Marines get into the bar/locker vent...


Could someone maybe explain why Marine comms (even good ones) will generally refuse to do minor stuff like this to greatly help their team. I've lost count of how many times I've asked for something minor like power in glass, only to have our "pro" Marine comm refuse. Even when it's FREE they still generally refuse to do it... why?

I just don't get it.
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Comments

  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    I didn't even know these two tricks. I guess it's what differentiates a good comm from a great one.

    Got any more of those tips?
  • AnzestralAnzestral Join Date: 2013-05-21 Member: 185327Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
    MoFo wrote: »
    Why refuse to drop power in glass hallway on summit? It's completely free to drop and allows Marines to climb into the glass/reactor vent...
    You can jump in that vent without the powernode beeing dropped, just by jumping on the rail on the left side...
  • SebSeb Melbourne, AU Join Date: 2013-04-01 Member: 184576Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Retired Community Developer
    Because most of them struggle with the basic concept of medpacks and ammo.

    /thread
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    Anzestral wrote: »
    MoFo wrote: »
    Why refuse to drop power in glass hallway on summit? It's completely free to drop and allows Marines to climb into the glass/reactor vent...
    You can jump in that vent without the powernode beeing dropped, just by jumping on the rail on the left side...

    Right side works too Anze :D
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    joshhh wrote: »
    Anzestral wrote: »
    MoFo wrote: »
    Why refuse to drop power in glass hallway on summit? It's completely free to drop and allows Marines to climb into the glass/reactor vent...
    You can jump in that vent without the powernode beeing dropped, just by jumping on the rail on the left side...

    Right side works too Anze :D

    Right side, left side... Can't we all just get in the vent and party dammit!
  • firepowerfirepower Join Date: 2011-02-01 Member: 79839Members
    If you explain reason for it when you ask , that should help , maybe they busy keeping marines alive elsewhere on the map.
    often coms are saving for tech. No reason not to drop powernodes, it only helps com to drop tech in that area and also waste alien time chewing on.
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Some ding dong will always finish a half built pwr node.

    Anyways, I get what you're saying, but the bar robo.. much cheaper and faster to just ask a teammate for a boost. Mid - late game, though, maybe.
  • Maxx11_v2.0Maxx11_v2.0 Join Date: 2012-11-18 Member: 172221Members
    Because you should be focusing on doing what the comm asks you to do instead of dicking about in vents. If a comm wants you there you'll get the tools you need.
  • Maxx11_v2.0Maxx11_v2.0 Join Date: 2012-11-18 Member: 172221Members
    ns2isgood wrote: »
    tldr; The monthly commander is bad because he didn't do what I wanted thread.

    Should start a "Why don't marines ever listen" thread to balance it out.
  • xen32xen32 Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited April 2014
    Marine says: Hey comm, drop power node in glass hallway
    Comm thinks: Hmmm, I don't need to drop anything there now, this is probably rookie who will waste their time building power node, then skulks will destroy it and we will have to waste a lot of time when we actually need structures in glass hallway
    Comm says: No.

    Next time, try this:
    - Hey comm, I want to climb into that vent, drop power node please.
    - Oh look, pro marine who uses dirty little tricks, here's your power node.
    There is a huge difference between asking for random things, and explaining what's the genius idea behind your request.

    Marines don't alway hold crusher on mineshaft, but when they do, and I'm on their team, I tell comm: Block crusher vent with robo, it won't let anyone pass and even destroy it from the inside because of crusher. I've been surprised how many comms understood the plan and actually dropped robo like needed. I bet if I'd just say "drop robo in crusher where I am standing", I'd be completely ignored, because comm would think something like "No, I'm not wasting my precious res on robo and sentries/arcs, I'd better invest those in <my favorite use of res>", or comm would drop it to use as intended, without thinking about blocking paths for aliens. BTW, if you are commanding, it's always good to squeeze as much as possible of structure placement beyond their intended way of use (reduced marine travel time to it, harder to reach for aliens, barricade, etc).

    Next time you plan to ask for something, think like you have a startup and your commander is potential investor. If your business plan is alright, you'll get funded.

    And speaking of glass hallway, just your rail to get there.
  • radionautradionaut california Join Date: 2013-01-22 Member: 181192Members, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Gold
    mines are your friend if you wanna be a super vent marine. check out this video @Gibs made: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=226057787
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    radionaut wrote: »
    mines are your friend if you wanna be a super vent marine. check out this video @Gibs made: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=226057787

    *sigh* @Gibs, it would be awesome if you could reupload this without music. I'm sure there's some valuable info in there, but it's blocked over here because of the music :\
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members
    edited April 2014
    1, its a bad idea to drop power nodes if they are at great risk of popping out/there is nothing to build there. You will get darker room and long time to repair, which would give aliens an advantage.

    2. You don't always know what the comm has in mind and the opposite is also true. This is a communication problem which is kind of common when with strangers.

    3. If you have a decent comm, he probably knows what he's doing better than you. He may want to spend money on different things and what you see as important may not be so helpful after all.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    radionaut wrote: »
    mines are your friend if you wanna be a super vent marine. check out this video @Gibs made: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=226057787

    *sigh* @Gibs, it would be awesome if you could reupload this without music. I'm sure there's some valuable info in there, but it's blocked over here because of the music :\
    Use free proxy or free vpn service. Maybe change your DNS?

  • joohoo_n3djoohoo_n3d Join Date: 2012-10-30 Member: 164703Members, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Supporter
    well too many commanders (rines or aliens) dont use kb shortcuts so theyre less likely to be highly effective or resposive :(
  • RapGodRapGod Not entirely sure... Join Date: 2013-11-12 Member: 189322Members
    Uhhhh I wouldn't do any of those things... dropping a power node so someone can get into a vent (when they already can)? Just asking for a dark room.

    Drop the robo there? As others have said, boost someone or get boosted if you really need to sit in there... building a robo early is a waste of res and then can be easily destroyed in that spot before u even get the chance to arc....

    So I'd b one of those comms that wouldn't listen. The tiny benefit doesn't cover 10 early tres (maybe another 10 to replace the first robot) and an unpowered dark room IMO.
  • Cannon_FodderAUSCannon_FodderAUS Brisbane, AU Join Date: 2013-06-23 Member: 185664Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    ns2isgood wrote: »
    tldr; The monthly commander is bad because he didn't do what I wanted thread.

    Should start a "Why don't marines ever listen" thread to balance it out.

    That would run into 100's of pages!!
  • MaxAmusMaxAmus UK Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24779Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Once had a few players on a server vote eject me cause I "apparently" drop to much mess as ammo and didn't focus on upgrades with my 6 RTs, they complained and moaned how we would never win this game, 30 secs later aliens conceded. Go figure
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    joohoo_n3d wrote: »
    well too many commanders (rines or aliens) dont use kb shortcuts so theyre less likely to be highly effective or resposive :(
    Agree, it's sad.

    SPACE -> E - > S, m1/ A, m1

    Takes like a 1/4 of a second, it's soooo easy. Not even something you have to think about, just a reflex.

    Plz do more of that marine comms!
  • Cr4zyb4st4rdCr4zyb4st4rd United Kingdom Join Date: 2012-08-09 Member: 155200Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    2cough wrote: »
    joohoo_n3d wrote: »
    well too many commanders (rines or aliens) dont use kb shortcuts so theyre less likely to be highly effective or resposive :(
    Agree, it's sad.

    SPACE -> E - > S, m1/ A, m1

    Takes like a 1/4 of a second, it's soooo easy. Not even something you have to think about, just a reflex.

    Plz do more of that marine comms!

    Don't forget X, spamming catpacks on marines is the real way to do it, who needs health when you have catpacks, woop!

    It is sad though, public commanders are against med kits but complain when they haven't got any rts left because their marines lost engagements everywhere >.<
  • MuckyMcFlyMuckyMcFly Join Date: 2012-03-19 Member: 148982Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    I used to cap all the power nodes as I went around all the maps, then reins stopped and built them all fully.... so I stopped.

    These don't sound like round winning complaints, what next, build steps to the vents in skylights or cargo thread?

    Good commander will have a unique overview of the round, listen to him/her. If you really want to get into vents ask nicely and I'm sure they will try to help.
  • Goliath VietnamGoliath Vietnam Join Date: 2013-01-07 Member: 178080Members
    Maybe Comander mostly dont know those tricks with object in-game
    Like "hidden sentry + Observatory behind Factory"
    Hide important building like Spur,Shelll,Armlabs
    Block doorways with Amory to stop Ohnos or Fade..vvv
  • MoFoMoFo Join Date: 2013-09-09 Member: 188047Members
    ns2isgood wrote: »
    tldr; The monthly commander is bad because he didn't do what I wanted thread.

    That's not it at all (sorry if it comes across that way) - It's more like the "why don't they do it this way, it's much more effective" thread.

    It's not about "dicking around in vents" or "wasting time building power nodes" (though to be fair for every rookie Marine who wastes time building it there's a rookie skulk who will waste time biting it down lol) It's about maximizing the effectiveness of your team and placement of structures. The robo boost for example, allows all Marines to use the shortcut, without the "booster" being left behind. 5 Marines rushing Locker through the bar vent is a lot quicker and harder to stop than if they rushed through back alley.

    I just find (from both Marine and Alien perspective) that when the Marine comm does these little things it benefits Marines and hurts Aliens more than one may think.

    xen32 wrote: »
    Marine says: Hey comm, drop power node in glass hallway
    Comm thinks: Hmmm, I don't need to drop anything there now, this is probably rookie who will waste their time building power node, then skulks will destroy it and we will have to waste a lot of time when we actually need structures in glass hallway
    Comm says: No.

    Next time, try this:
    - Hey comm, I want to climb into that vent, drop power node please.
    - Oh look, pro marine who uses dirty little tricks, here's your power node.
    There is a huge difference between asking for random things, and explaining what's the genius idea behind your request.

    Marines don't alway hold crusher on mineshaft, but when they do, and I'm on their team, I tell comm: Block crusher vent with robo, it won't let anyone pass and even destroy it from the inside because of crusher. I've been surprised how many comms understood the plan and actually dropped robo like needed. I bet if I'd just say "drop robo in crusher where I am standing", I'd be completely ignored, because comm would think something like "No, I'm not wasting my precious res on robo and sentries/arcs, I'd better invest those in <my favorite use of res>", or comm would drop it to use as intended, without thinking about blocking paths for aliens. BTW, if you are commanding, it's always good to squeeze as much as possible of structure placement beyond their intended way of use (reduced marine travel time to it, harder to reach for aliens, barricade, etc).

    Next time you plan to ask for something, think like you have a startup and your commander is potential investor. If your business plan is alright, you'll get funded.

    And speaking of glass hallway, just your rail to get there.

    You may be on to something here because blocking the vent in crusher is another request I've made that gets ignored/refused. Thanks for the suggestion.
  • RaZDaZRaZDaZ Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167331Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Seeing the title of this thread, I expected people to complain about pub comms never dropping meds or ammo appropriately. Dropping 10Tres to get into a vent unless its the skylights/overlook vent AND if there's a gorge constantly camping there is just not worth it.
  • meatmachinemeatmachine South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    RaZDaZ wrote: »
    Seeing the title of this thread, I expected people to complain about pub comms never dropping meds or ammo appropriately. Dropping 10Tres to get into a vent unless its the skylights/overlook vent AND if there's a gorge constantly camping there is just not worth it.

    Technically 2-3 res(?) since you recycle the structure afterwards, obviously...
  • MoFoMoFo Join Date: 2013-09-09 Member: 188047Members
    RaZDaZ wrote: »
    Seeing the title of this thread, I expected people to complain about pub comms never dropping meds or ammo appropriately. Dropping 10Tres to get into a vent unless its the skylights/overlook vent AND if there's a gorge constantly camping there is just not worth it.

    Technically 2-3 res(?) since you recycle the structure afterwards, obviously...

    Well technically it's 0 res... because in most cases the comm drops a robo in the same general area (just not at the vent) in order to arc.

  • RaZDaZRaZDaZ Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167331Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited April 2014
    RaZDaZ wrote: »
    Seeing the title of this thread, I expected people to complain about pub comms never dropping meds or ammo appropriately. Dropping 10Tres to get into a vent unless its the skylights/overlook vent AND if there's a gorge constantly camping there is just not worth it.

    Technically 2-3 res(?) since you recycle the structure afterwards, obviously...

    What if it is destroyed later on or an alien push is coming to clear out that area? What if marines need it up because lifeforms keep going in? There's no guarantee that marines will be successful in clearing out a vent the first time. What about the delay to tech especially early on? 10res is an extra few towards upgrades and shotguns. There's not just a single variable at play here. An upgrade doesn't just cost 30Tres, it costs time as well and delaying tech can make a difference.

    There's obviously a good chance that you will get to recycle it which is why its dependent on the state of the game and the potential risks/rewards it may involve. I've used it recently to get marines into the vent to kill a trapped but good lerk player. It's good like I said if you know the reward is big such as keeping skylights and overlook RTs alive.
  • KungFuJVKungFuJV Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15167Members
    Off topic, but to the cmdrs out there, do u ever run into this glitch when trying to use hotkeys, that they don't work?

    Sometimes when trying to beacon/med I can press the respective key and nothing will happen. Usually I have to press Q,W,E (to rapidly change the menu) and then go back to the tab, for it to work again.
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