Natural Selection 2 World Championship - Natural Selection 2

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  • ForlornHopeForlornHope Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Join Date: 2003-08-01 Member: 18675Posts: 226 Fully active user
    edited October 2013
    @WasabiOne - Just realised that it wont let me enter a non-US bank account despite me getting the routing number over the phone. I have no way of making a donation despite entering a valid UK address and card. Any ideas that will help me any anyone else having the same problem?

    EDIT - Turned out my bank blocked it as the fraud team gave me a call. Will try again.
    Post edited by ForlornHope on
    Space Hero / Alien Throttler / Sex Icon
  • ForlornHopeForlornHope Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Join Date: 2003-08-01 Member: 18675Posts: 226 Fully active user
    It worked! Just passed the £5000 mark! :)
    Space Hero / Alien Throttler / Sex Icon
  • HowserHowser UKMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Posts: 654 Advanced user
    edited October 2013
    I cannot believe the selfish attitudes of some 'community members'. The world championships is a great idea and exactly what this game needs. Using this thread to spring board complaints about NS2 and UWE (valid or otherwise) is completely unnecessary and pretty low. I wont even bother addressing the "what's in it for me" people.

    Now I know a lot of people are waiting for pay day but what I find must unbelievable is the number of people who have actually contributed; it is far too low. I've seen more people on the forums at one time than people who have contributed in over 10 days of this event. For me that's the worse part.

    If every active community member contributed $10 we'd have the 30k In the bank. You could argue with that statement or alternatively put down the $10. If I'm wrong you get your money back and get the satisfaction of being a smug mug.

    I can see that the execution of announcing the event was problematic but Wasabione's intentions and this event are only good for the community. The world championships aren't life or death for NS2 but having the event not happen will be a huge opportunity missed and probably spell the end of competitive events, and certainly shorten the life of the community.

    As a group we're all fairly opinionated, we like to moan and argue about pretty much everything but we should all agree this needs to happen. If you've been criticising this event its time to step back and think about its implications for the community and you're standing within it. What's one dollar?
    Post edited by Howser on
    ForlornHopeVetinariRetracedWasabiOne
  • ForlornHopeForlornHope Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Join Date: 2003-08-01 Member: 18675Posts: 226 Fully active user
    gofundme.com/ns2worldchampionship

    It'll make you feel warm inside.
    Space Hero / Alien Throttler / Sex Icon
    Howser
  • Maxx11_v2.0Maxx11_v2.0 Members Join Date: 2012-11-18 Member: 172221Posts: 274
    Howser wrote: »
    I cannot believe the selfish attitudes of some 'community members'...

    You're actually calling people "selfish"?!?
    Not giving money to the noble cause of "playing a videogame in a venue" is not selfish, its simply a binary choice with no real weight or consequence attached. This isn't a lifesaving charity.
    What the hell is wrong with you?
    hub3rtu2halfofaheavenBlarney_Stone
  • ForlornHopeForlornHope Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Join Date: 2003-08-01 Member: 18675Posts: 226 Fully active user
    edited October 2013
    If you take individual words out of a sentence like that, then it could mean that. However, Howser is addressing the angry responses and negativity that really are not needed.
    Space Hero / Alien Throttler / Sex Icon
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call?Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Posts: 3,191 Fully active user
    edited October 2013
    I have created a thread over in the veteran board to try to collate what we players think UWE needs to do to put NS2 in the best possible place prior to the NS2WC. Whether or not the finals are live, this is important, and the reach goes well beyond the competitive community.

    To contribute in a constructive manner, please go ahead and visit that thread.

    Cheers

    Roo
    For all your gorge busting needs.
    It is very strange how some1 who spend so much time makeing videos to help mans, can fall and take miror image of dark ages bourgeoisie, outdated set of belifs
    How True.
    ForlornHopeHowserBenson
  • Maxx11_v2.0Maxx11_v2.0 Members Join Date: 2012-11-18 Member: 172221Posts: 274
    edited October 2013
    If you take individual words out of a sentence like that, then it could mean that. However, Howser is addressing the angry responses and negativity that really are not needed.

    I didn't really feel the need to quote the entire segment I was addressing, but since you insist:
    Howser wrote: »
    I cannot believe the selfish attitudes of some 'community members'. The world championships is a great idea and exactly what this game needs. Using this thread to spring board complaints about NS2 and UWE (valid or otherwise) is completely unnecessary and pretty low. I wont even bother addressing the "what's in it for me" people.

    Now I know a lot of people are waiting for pay day but what I find must unbelievable is the number of people who have actually contributed; it is far too low. I've seen more people on the forums at one time than people who have contributed in over 10 days of this event. For me that's the worse part. Is it laziness or selfishness that stops you putting down that dollar?

    If every active community member contributed $10 we'd have the 30k In the bank. You could argue with that statement or alternatively put down the $10. If I'm wrong you get your money back and get the satisfaction of being a smug mug.

    ...

    There you go, and I still stand by what I said.

    As for the other part:
    Howser wrote: »

    I can see that the execution of announcing the event was problematic but Wasabione's intentions and this event are only good for the community. The world championships aren't life or death for NS2 but having the event not happen will be a huge opportunity missed and probably spell the end of competitive events, and certainly shorten the life of the community.

    As a group we're all fairly opinionated, we like to moan and argue about pretty much everything but we should all agree this needs to happen. If you've been criticising this event its time to step back and think about its implications for the community and you're standing within it. What's one dollar?

    Implications? End of competitive events? An attempt at "emotional" blackmail "don't pay and be part of the reason why NS2 is dying".
    The only thing I can agree on is the part about being opinionated and the moaning, which also happens to be exactly what his post was.

    The funny part is that while terribly misguided, I'm sure he actually had good intentions.
    hub3rtu2
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WIMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Posts: 1,437 Advanced user
    edited October 2013
    If you take individual words out of a sentence like that, then it could mean that. However, Howser is addressing the angry responses and negativity that really are not needed.

    I didn't really feel the need to quote the entire segment I was addressing:

    Forlorn's response went right over your head sir. Did you hear that whooshing sound?
    Nazo
  • Maxx11_v2.0Maxx11_v2.0 Members Join Date: 2012-11-18 Member: 172221Posts: 274
    edited October 2013
    joshhh wrote: »
    If you take individual words out of a sentence like that, then it could mean that. However, Howser is addressing the angry responses and negativity that really are not needed.

    I didn't really feel the need to quote the entire segment I was addressing:

    Forlorn's response went right over your head sir. Did you hear that whooshing sound?

    And apparently mine went right over yours, but I'm really not here to start any fights so Ill let it go.
    I've said what I wanted to say on the subject matter. You're more than welcome to agree or disagree. I'm really not bothered either way. Its how opinions work.
    hub3rtu2
  • HowserHowser UKMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Posts: 654 Advanced user
    @Maxx11_v2.0 wow! perfect example of the behaviour I was referring to.
    Someone tries to do something good for the community and few people try derail it for no logical reason. Why even bother posting unless you're going to say something supportive?

    I don't care whether you agree with me or help fund the tournament or not.
    The fact is wasabi, reddog and co are doing this out of their love for the game and the community, the proper response is to give some love back. Whether that be a money, kind words of encouragement or some suggestions of how to improve the event.
    Your negativity is pretty distasteful.
  • HowserHowser UKMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Posts: 654 Advanced user
    I removed the part from my original post I felt might of been a bit heavy handed. The smack talk may have made me ragey but I stand by what I say.

    For me a $1 fund isn't about the money, its token of your support for the community.
    $5,005 from 78 supports is still very impressive. Its the headcount not the sum that saddens me.
  • tallhotblondetallhotblonde Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-12-11 Member: 174770Posts: 216 Fully active user
    @howser Without back tracking over the same old tired points being made on this post, the frustration is with-

    * The format - The top 4 teams are so much better than the rest, we could of been much more dynamic in including everyone in the sense of a 'nations format', new teams bracket(send 2 of the best new comers to play live), or anything. This simply doesn't appeal to most. I feel they missed a massive catch and they could of created a MASSIVE spike of new teams joining the ensl by being more innovative. Not just re-creating the European opens and the nsl invitation cup. (which IMO, didn't bring any new competitive teams in to the ENSL)

    *The funding - Yeah yeah, its a community funded event but UWE are still helping towards the final funding for this event and what ever way you look at it, its money away from ns2. (no come backs) This is why people get very emotional when its money away from the game they put 100 hours a week into.

    *The timing - I love ns2 and ill play this game for (hopefully) years to come but there is a massive negative feeling surrounding the current state of competitive and public game play/player base. People were so hyped about a big announcement and you only had to be on twitch to see that not 1 person was excited about this event. 1500 viewers dropped to 500 with in 3 minutes.

    This is no dig at you howser because you know i love you and your mapping buddies :] - Skyice
    Blarney_Stone
  • HowserHowser UKMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Posts: 654 Advanced user
    edited October 2013
    @tallhotblonde I completely agree with your criticisms. I don't think the approach they took was as well thought out as It could of been. That said It would still be nice for people to get behind it and debate and refine the format as we go. I am pretty sure if there was enough interest from new teams we could have a separate group and guaranteed place in the finals for their best. I don't know much about how these things are done but there is solutions to the valid gripes people have. I'm sure they're open to discussion right?!
    Edit: Apart from the funding with no return. If they did the event right, with front page twitch publicity surely it would recoup the money back in sales. The last two gigs had some flaws and I think this is the chance to put that right and even the competitive event that sets the standard for all others to follow.

    I find it hard to not get frustrated with some of hostility towards the campaign and its funding. Nothings perfect, but I'd rather have something than nothing. And lets face it, given the issues with the last two events this probably is the last chance for a studio final. It would be nice if everyone took a more supportive stance of the gig.
  • PoNeHPoNeH Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester Join Date: 2006-12-01 Member: 58801Posts: 184 Advanced user
    Blah blah blah... these tournaments are sooooo boooorrrriiinnngggg..... yawn!
    eh?
  • HowserHowser UKMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Posts: 654 Advanced user
    .... I didn't know that topless berk from twilight trolled these forums... awesome.
    halfofaheaven
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind youMembers Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    World Championsip? That means we wont get updates (particularly balancing updates) for some time before it starts all the way to after it ends.

    REVERT TO 249, THE STATE OF THE GAME CURRENTLY IS NOT AS GOOD AS 249.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • WasabiOneWasabiOne Co-Lead NS2 CDT Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104623Posts: 758 Advanced user
    Anyone outside the US needs to make sure when going through the process to select the autofill options from gofundme as they format their address slightly differently than you might. Walked through this with a player from Sweden last night and got it all to work. As far as the credit card or routing goes, I dont have any control over that and I'm sorry its being mean :(
  • LokiLoki Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2012-07-07 Member: 153973Posts: 564 mod
    bump
    Creator of ns2 Kodiak, ns2 Derelict, ns2_Undercity, ns2 Discovery, sws ctf Eden , ls_hera, ls_storm, ls_frost, ls_troopers and undertaking the remake of ns2 Shiva and ns2 Ayumi ns2_hera(maps currently on hold)
  • DefaultErrorDefaultError Minnesota Members, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2013-10-31 Member: 188917Posts: 34 Fully active user
    This may have already been posted but, I donated $10 a few weeks ago and nothing was taken out of my account. Does it only take money out if the funding happens? I now the e-mail that gofundme send me says pre-authorized so that's what I'm guessing.
    DarkLegion NS2 Division Member - RECRUITING - Visit http://darklegion.net
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
  • DeadonstickDeadonstick Members Join Date: 2013-04-17 Member: 184877Posts: 24
    Table of Contents:

    1: Foreword/The Problem
    2: Plucking Apart the Problem
    3: The solution
    4: Conclusion/TL;DR version

    ___________________________________________________________________________________
    1: Foreword/The Problem

    During the last World Tournament I had a lot of fun. I hooked my laptop up to the TV and watched the entire thing with my girlfriend. Now admittedly gameplay-wise the last tournament wasn't much fun. The first round was amazing but all the later rounds were basically Archaea curb-stomping Nexzil, and that was ok.

    Why was it ok? Because seeing this entire world tournament thing happen was very exciting, even if it was just to see the UWE team goof off (personally, after watching the world tournament it was hard for me to imagine one of those people seriously sitting in front of a screen typing LUA all day).

    Unfortunately ok isn't worth 30 grand. Now at the time of writing this message more or less 100 people donated a total of 6 grand. With some math this would mean that at this rate 500 people need to donate 60 dollars each. That's quite a big number, that's 10 copies of the entire game on the Steam sales. You can't really expect people to pay that much for a single live event, because regardless of how fun a potential tournament could be, how well it might boost the community etc etc, it simply doesn't weigh up to buying all your friends a copy of the game. Surely 500 people each bringing in 10 extra potential community members is a bigger growth factor for the community than this live event will ever be? (or so goes my logic for not donating).

    _________________________________________________________________________________
    2: Plucking Apart the Problem


    However, I don't feel this tournament has been handled properly and I will explain why.

    1: The Hyping
    Now this is where it all started, there were advertisements everywhere about something earthshakingly skullshatteringly big being about to happen to NS2. Something that will "change NS2 forever". Now this ofcourse, and I'm sure a lot of other people aswell, got me interested.

    Now they announced this thing by showing us the trailer at the livestream, personally, I felt disappointed. I was promised something new and amazing (I was thinking along the lines of a new update, more gamemodes, a ratingsystem, whatever) yet instead what I got was a mere extension of something which had already happened the year before and left NS2 the same.

    I don't know how many people feel like "everything changed" after the last tournament, but I am not one of them and I don't see how this will either. Sure it might bring in some new people, but that's not really a tremendous impact that every player instantly notices.

    As a direct result of this hyping most of the people who were watching went into a rage, with a few people defending the plan. Now admittedly after the rage had cooled a few days later people were less mad and more in favour but still, the idea of a hype is to get people extremely interested for a while, rather than do the exact opposite (which you can only hope to achieve by promising something different than you're giving them)

    2: Lack of community communication
    As Wasabi said, this is literally something he and the guys came up with. Yet it's something that's community driven. Now I feel, if this thing is going to be truly community driven, why not have the community have a say in it? Why not have polls if people would rather have semi-finals and finals for 30 grand or only finals for a bit less?

    Another thing that they could have asked the community is how they should handle entrance to the tournament (as a spectator, not a competitor). Currently as I understand it "normal people" will only be able to go there through raffle tickets. Now the thing is, you're holding this thing in Germany, I personally live in the Netherlands on the German border, meaning that I would not have to be flown in and I would even happily pay for an entrance ticket to go watch the thing live with my girlfriend.

    I am sure a lot of fellow Europeans (esspecially the Germans who can make it there in no time at all, esspecially with their no-speedlimit autobahn) would have been happy to done the same thing. Heck, I think that even a few Americans would have been crazy enough to fly themselves in to see this thing happen.

    Most live events in the world are paid for by sponsorship money and ticket sales, I get we don't have a lot of sponsorship money, but surely tickets for 30-40 dollars a piece would come a long way to making this thing happen. Esspecially if you do the standard live-event thing of selling food and beverages which you can make a profit on aswell. Sell merchandise on site aswell. I am sure that when people are plunged into a building with hundreds of other NS2 fans they would happily pay for multiple consumptions, thus paying for a lot of the tournament that way.

    ________________________________
    3: The solution


    Now as far as I'm concerned, trying to host world tournaments is a great thing. Although I must also say, it could have been handled better. I'd say from now on we should have a sticky forum topic on how to host these tournaments properly, let everyone sprout their ideas, let communities vote on them. This way people will feel more involved with the tournament (because they both helped plan the thing AND therefore are more willing to fund it) and a large group of people are more likely to have good ideas than a mere 4 people.

    On that note, here are some of my ideas:

    For one, the ticket sales seem to be a good start, allowing the community access to the tournament they helped create for a fee seems to be no more than fair. Now ofcourse, they will end up paying for drinks and food too, making the event like any other live event out there (think concerts, football matches, etc). This will help make the tournament maybe even profitable.

    Two, sell merchandise on the spot. People will love having an NS2 T-shirt because it helps bond them to the group present at the event even more, UWE makes a profit on these things, the players are happy because they don't have to pay shipping.

    Three, Keep the raffle tickets, those were a great idea to help encourage players, aswell as give those less fortunate (aka people not situated near Germany) a change to come there too.

    Four, to keep donating interesting for people having already bought a ticket, add perks for people that are at the tournament, say buying a clog on the gofundme project gets you two free drinks, an arms lab will give you a free shirt to pick up at the tournament. (to check this make sure they bring proof of donation, and Wasabi, make sure you send them one)

    Five, get the pro people and casters involved! The thing is, one of your greatest assets you're not using to the fullest are pro players. I think a lot of people would gladly pay 100 dollars for an hours worth of Fade-lessons from Bitey. I think people would love to pay 5-10 bucks getting their picture taken with their favourite pro player. I think some people would also pay 500 dollars to co-comment on a match with WasabiOne or like 50 to have WasabiOne say something of their choice during one of his casts.

    ___________________________________
    4: Conclusion/TL;DR version


    That was my way-too-long essay on this tournament


    tl;dr version: The tournament is a great idea, but it could have been handled better. Instead of debating whether it's a good or a bad idea, let's try and make this truly community driven by debating how it COULD work, money contributions are good, but knowledge contribution is equally good. It might be too late to save this tournament, but if we plan this thing together as a community, next year's tournament could be smashing.



  • eh?eh? Members Join Date: 2012-03-03 Member: 147997Posts: 517 Fully active user
    Always be optimistic. I mean with 400 more dollars you could buy every player a rowboat and a raincoat or a new pair of Nikes.
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