Skill Stacked Teams is Killing NS2

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Comments

  • ZalamaelZalamael Join Date: 2013-08-18 Member: 186949Members
    edited October 2013
    Squirreli_ wrote: »
    EDIT: Stacking implies there are good players on the server... Please list all EU servers that have this problem. I'll be sure to look for good games there ;)

    Win :)

  • _Necro__Necro_ Join Date: 2011-02-15 Member: 81895Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2013
    Dat reading comprehension... -.-

    dePARA wrote it on the first page of this 6-page thread:

    The shine admin plugin can distribute players by "skill" to create fair games.
    And despite other opinions it works in the most cases on the HBZ servers. Given, that the name "vote random" is chosen very bad.

    On another note. UWE knows of this problem. That's why persistent stats were added: hive.naturalselection2.com
    They already stated that they want to add two systems (if I got it right):
    - a matchmaking lobby thingy where you can set up fair games before joining a server.
    - a shuffle-function (like they already exist in admin mods!) to distribute players by skill.

    So people can stop arguing if you should forbid other people to play together with their friends. Or how stupid it is to empty a server by stacking.
  • AmbAmb Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168647Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    whatever solution UWE is going implement will have little to no relevance by the time it's implemented. It would have meant something if it was implemented at launch, it's not like UWE wasn't aware of this, stacking ruined the ns1 pub community too. Nothing from this point on can stop the blatant stacking from killing off the already puny community.
  • XaoXao Join Date: 2012-12-12 Member: 174840Members
    edited October 2013
    "Play together with friends"

    Easily the worst argument I've heard spouted by all clan players for joining the same team 6+ rounds in a row and stomping out servers. dePara can crap on all he wants about Shine Admin KDR, every US server that uses Shine Admin has set the KDR Random to some absurd # of votes, I'll take Craka Mata Gaming for another eg, it's 14-16 votes out of 22-24 players...so it's never activated.

    SABOT has been in talks for nearly 6 months now and will just result in the same idiots getting 2-3 friends together before clicking "Find Server/Game" and stacking teams regardless, Shine KDR random should have been the default random on all servers so many moons ago but like most things NS2 it's a great idea that was implemented poorly and is rarely used if ever at all. Not only does every US server require 12+ votes because the admins are too lazy to change the default or don't care but it'll only work for the round AFTER the vote, which will probably be a map change, which makes it invalid once again.

    Shouts outs to member/s of NS2 PT team and member/s of a US clan for being knob ends and stacking CMGaming before, doing gods work once again.

    edit: @Squirreli_

    No idea m8, I don't play on any EU servers, I can only really speak for US servers because AU are a waste of time.
  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited October 2013
    @ColtColt

    Pretty much nailed it.

    I'm surprised the amount of trolls and complaining bitches that are still posting after that nice explanation of the issue.

    If UWE creates a system to help with this issue; great. If they don't; deal with it.
  • AmbAmb Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168647Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    in a few days/weeks the stackers will be playing with themselves, both BF4 and that new COD are coming out
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Lol CoD, I honestly hope everyone that thinks that game is great catches cancer, I really really do.
  • current1ycurrent1y Join Date: 2003-12-08 Member: 24150Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    Xao wrote: »
    "Play together with friends"

    Easily the worst argument I've heard spouted by all clan players for joining the same team 6+ rounds in a row and stomping out servers. dePara can crap on all he wants about Shine Admin KDR, every US server that uses Shine Admin has set the KDR Random to some absurd # of votes, I'll take Craka Mata Gaming for another eg, it's 14-16 votes out of 22-24 players...so it's never activated.

    SABOT has been in talks for nearly 6 months now and will just result in the same idiots getting 2-3 friends together before clicking "Find Server/Game" and stacking teams regardless, Shine KDR random should have been the default random on all servers so many moons ago but like most things NS2 it's a great idea that was implemented poorly and is rarely used if ever at all. Not only does every US server require 12+ votes because the admins are too lazy to change the default or don't care but it'll only work for the round AFTER the vote, which will probably be a map change, which makes it invalid once again.

    Shouts outs to member/s of NS2 PT team and member/s of a US clan for being knob ends and stacking CMGaming before, doing gods work once again.

    edit: @Squirreli_

    No idea m8, I don't play on any EU servers, I can only really speak for US servers because AU are a waste of time.

    Do you have friends who play ns2? I'm not sure how any one who has any could not understand the desire to play with friends. Plus you don't have to be on a competitive team to have friends you play with regularly.
  • XaoXao Join Date: 2012-12-12 Member: 174840Members
    current1y wrote: »
    Do you have friends who play ns2? I'm not sure how any one who has any could not understand the desire to play with friends. Plus you don't have to be on a competitive team to have friends you play with regularly.

    Friends?

    There's zero reason why you and your internet friends must stay on the same team for consecutive rounds when it's obvious to all and sundry that it's stacking the fuck out of the teams and the rounds are painfully one sided.

    Of course that's just my shit opinion because I personally enjoy games that go past 15 minutes and are reasonably close at times, it's quite obvious how the competitive community feels about public games.

    @DIOLlear

    m8 pls.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Xao wrote: »
    Of course that's just my shit opinion because I personally enjoy games that go past 15 minutes.

    Just going to chime in and say that after 6 minutes the game turns to shit. The only reason I play this game is for those first 6 minutes.
  • current1ycurrent1y Join Date: 2003-12-08 Member: 24150Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    I missed the part in your previous post about the 6+ round part. I was thinking just 1-2 games when I replied.. I don't think any one here is arguing that "playing with friends" is an excuse to stack for a 2 hours?
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    I don't have friends so I don't have anyone to stack with me :(

    In other news, after the 6 minute mark, the game turns into PvE Selection 2. So I agree with Ghost. :D
  • casan0vaxcasan0vax Cloverfield, USA Join Date: 2012-11-04 Member: 166663Members, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Xao wrote: »
    casan0vax wrote: »
    You do know that KDR-based teams is a thing on quite a few servers now, right? And it still works horribly.
    Another terrible post endorsed by a comp player that says little more than I like to stack because I win, the part I've quoted is a lie as well, I can't think of one server between US and AU that enforces KDR random in any way, shape or form. Unless it's tactical gamer, they have a ping kicker so I can't play. So I'll give you maybe 2 servers.
    @Xao lol did you even read my post? Please, quote me where I said "I like to stack because I win."

    Spoiler: you won't be able to, because I said I don't stack (and so did @ColtColt; and if you ever played with me in a pub, you'd know this), considering I'm always either playing solo, or with my friend datto who isn't even that good skill-wise (but he point-carries because he's obsessed with objective-based play). And also, there are a bunch of NA servers that have KDR-based teams, but it's up to the server to vote for it. And funny enough, most servers don't vote for it. You know why? Because it still ends up in stomps. I can't tell you how many times a KDR-based random ended with people subsequently saying, "Boy, sure glad that KDR random works" sarcastically in the ready room, because they just got wiped out in 5 minutes.

    Anyways, what I was attempting to do in my post was explain the mentality behind comp-player stacking, but it seems you like to scan posts without fully comprehending what the poster is actually trying to convey, so I'll just stop here.


    TL;DR (as is apparently the case for you): L2Read thoroughly.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    joshhh wrote: »
    I don't have friends so I don't have anyone to stack with me :(

    In other news, after the 6 minute mark, the game turns into PvE Selection 2. So I agree with Ghost. :D

    wvsRU6J.jpg
  • current1ycurrent1y Join Date: 2003-12-08 Member: 24150Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    edited October 2013
    joshhh wrote: »
    I don't have friends so I don't have anyone to stack with me :(

    In other news, after the 6 minute mark, the game turns into PvE Selection 2. So I agree with Ghost. :D

    You can be my friend. I have candy.

  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    If I can haz?
    doooooope! Time to stack teh teams current1y! I gotta pad my ns2 stats manggggggggg.

    #swag
  • XaoXao Join Date: 2012-12-12 Member: 174840Members
    @Casanova , we will play this game then.
    ColtColt wrote: »
    As a "Comp Player" who plays in quite a lot of pubs, and rarely 'stacks' ... That's because birds of a feather flock together, and good players who play on the same team want to play together. As you want to play with your seven friends, so too do competitive players want to play with their friends. In a public server, this comes down to the rules of the community (or singular owner) hosting the server, and such policies are at the discretion of the leadership of said community/server. This is how it's always been in player-hosted games since back in WON (TFC, CS, etc).

    Perhaps you should understand the two-way street here; just as you imply the 2-4 competitive players should "Not be allowed" to play together, perhaps the way competitive players see it is that you and your 7 friends should not be allowed to noskill-stack a team;

    -Colt.

    "Get at me, bro."

    The rest of the post is tit for tat wank against OP, first Colt assures us even tho he's a comp player he's not one of those comp players but barrels into how he completely empathises with people who stack teams knowingly. Specifically the number 7, must have been chosen at total random, Colt is so deluded he then decides to throw it back in OPs face that maybe public players shouldn't "noskill-stack" a team...because they chose to be bad or learn a game.

    I specifically remember choosing to have no fucking idea where I was going in the first 50-100 hours of most maps in NS2, I remember choosing not knowing how to effectively engage with 5 different life forms vs varying numbers of marines with 3 different weapon systems, now something like 7 counting grenades and cat packs. I remember choosing a team purely based on the fact that I was trying to "noskill-stack" so I could get rolled before 4 minutes and question my purpose on the mortal plane of existence.

    Oh wait, I didn't, I was new to the game. Not that that fact stops bell ends like Colt and his clan of online heroes ala All-In from team stacking and aliasing just about every server they've ever joined, in fact wouldn't you know I happened to run into a member of All-In and a member of the NS2 PT team tonight, $10 for guessing which team those 2 joined for about 7 rounds in a row. Which obviously influenced every other idiot with a badge and half a clue on joining a specific team. I'm sure the other 11 members of the team I was consistently on loved having a negative KD at the end of each 15-20 minute round, I bet they really learned a lot about Natural Selection 2 and can't wait to log in tomorrow night for more consecutive rounds of going 5-6-15. They were certainly encouraged with lots of all chat that amounted to "git gud" and "L2P", I could tell by our team chat and mic communication.

    Or they'll add to that ever decreasing retention rate people don't like mentioning around here, who knows, such is life. #YOLO

    casan0vax wrote: »
    You do know that KDR-based teams is a thing on quite a few servers now, right? And it still works horribly.
    ...

    But to be honest, it's really no wonder why comp players do stack. Like Colt and some others have said, 99% of the time they're on TS/Mumble together, so they'd just prefer to play together. Second, because of the mentality that most high-level competitive players possess, not only do they want to win, but they want to play with competent people, i.e. people who know what they're doing: easiest solution? Join the same team with your buddy.

    And the latter part is a huge reason why stacking exists: player incompetence. I often try to field command, giving intel (e.g. "there's 3 in Repair Room"), advising players where to go, what to do, helping commanders with build order, etc. etc.

    ...

    So to avoid this quite common frustration, "we" tend to gravitate towards each other, since we know we can rely on each other to do things properly.

    I've cut your violin playing inducing example out for brevity, this post almost follows Colts to the letter. First you let us know you're not THAT KIND of comp player, but wait, you also completely understand why competitive players team stack public games for hours on end. You even trouble yourself by expanding on various reasons why like, oh, my team mates aren't as good as me, and oh, I told my team mates to do X and they did Y, and fucken oh, it's simply the easiest option if I join the same team the dudes with a combined 14k hours of NS2 experience on a third party VOIP are on.

    buu fucking huu m8.

    But like Colt you also can't wait to throw a certain factor back into public players faces, player incompetence. You keep jibber jabbering on to explain why multiple people with 1k+ hours each who are using third party VOIP and know the game inside out now need to be on each others team 9 times out of 10, great effort m8, I feel Colt didn't expand on this angle of the phenomenon of "Skill Stacking" and it really makes me feel for how difficult it must be to be a competitive player in a dead game. Specifically in public games. Specifically when you're individually better than 99% of the rest of the server.

    But it's ok, you're one of those competitive players, just like Colt, doing gods work "counter stacking", I hope you add #mentor to your name like some other helpful chap in the NS2 PT team who did a fuck of a lot of mentoring recently on a server I was on.

    *tips fedora*

  • BentRingBentRing Join Date: 2003-03-04 Member: 14318Members
    casan0vax wrote: »
    L2Read thoroughly.

    HAHA HAHA HAHA AAAAAAAAAHAHAAAAAAAAHAHA HAHA HAHA

    You're asking that on game forums?


    Thanks man, I needed that laugh.
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    Xao wrote: »
    Oh wait, I didn't, I was new to the game. Not that that fact stops bell ends like Colt and his clan of online heroes ala All-In from team stacking and aliasing just about every server they've ever joined

    Just wanted to point out some misinformation. Colt plays almost 100% on KKG. Myself, a former All-In member, and almost of the rest of Old All-In' are banned from KKG. lol
  • eh?eh? Join Date: 2012-03-03 Member: 147997Members
    everytime I feel bitter about wasting time with ns2, I see this xao scrub whine on the forums and feel slightly better.

    weird
  • current1ycurrent1y Join Date: 2003-12-08 Member: 24150Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    edited October 2013
  • XaoXao Join Date: 2012-12-12 Member: 174840Members
    joshhh wrote: »
    Xao wrote: »
    Oh wait, I didn't, I was new to the game. Not that that fact stops bell ends like Colt and his clan of online heroes ala All-In from team stacking and aliasing just about every server they've ever joined

    Just wanted to point out some misinformation. Colt plays almost 100% on KKG. Myself, a former All-In member, and almost of the rest of Old All-In' are banned from KKG. lol

    KKG just doesn't fill up these days anyway, dunno what happened. Banned all the good players?

    @Current1y

    b8 m8. Could have sworn I put :^) in that post.
  • current1ycurrent1y Join Date: 2003-12-08 Member: 24150Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    admit it you like to dance!
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    @Xao, pretty much. The only good players I know that play there are Syk and Colt. lol rip kkg
  • ColtColtColtColt Join Date: 2012-06-27 Member: 153707Members
    edited October 2013
    Going to reply here, as my name's been tossed around alot in the last page or so, and I felt the need to clarify some points.

    Xao wrote: »
    first Colt assures us even tho he's a comp player he's not one of those comp players but barrels into how he completely empathises with people who stack teams knowingly. Specifically the number 7, must have been chosen at total random,

    My reputation speaks for itself; ask the very OP of this thread, who plays under the name "Roguefire", about my habits in pubs. After this thread was posted, I've played several (probably 10-15+) pubs with Roguefire AKA the Original poster, in which I have counter-stacked, readily managed and provided a balanced (even with high-skill players in the game) experience for both sides. I do what I can to ensure the game is balanced. You should not mistake my empathy for the competitive scene and community for being a part of your perceived problem. I do not stack; In fact, I counter-stack most matches I'm in and/or provide the losing side with some comeback potential.


    Xao wrote: »
    Colt is so deluded he then decides to throw it back in OPs face that maybe public players shouldn't "noskill-stack" a team...because they chose to be bad or learn a game.

    I illustrated, quite flatly, how it's a two way street. Not only do you not want to play with groups of friends playing together that are superior at the game to you, aka "Stacking", but they don't want to play with you either. You're stuck with them, and they're stuck with you. You should not be so blind and foolhardy as to admit this isn't just a logical truth; much like respect, this is a two-sided issue and shouldn't be treated with such blind, dogmatic venom-spewing from one side or the other.


    Xao wrote: »
    Oh wait, I didn't, I was new to the game. Not that that fact stops bell ends like Colt and his clan of online heroes ala All-In from team stacking and aliasing just about every server they've ever joined

    I don't play for All-In, and the team All-In which I lead for almost a year in all but name is not the current team. I stand behind my actions and I do not stack. I occasionally play with 1-2 other friends, but we usually have more fun shooting each other than shooting floor skulks. Again, you seem to think you have me pegged as some vile stacker; but i'm simply not and you'd know this if you'd ever played with me.


    Xao wrote: »
    I've cut your violin playing inducing example out for brevity, this post almost follows Colts to the letter. First you let us know you're not THAT KIND of comp player, but wait, you also completely understand why competitive players team stack public games for hours on end. You even trouble yourself by expanding on various reasons why like, oh, my team mates aren't as good as me, and oh, I told my team mates to do X and they did Y, and fucken oh, it's simply the easiest option if I join the same team the dudes with a combined 14k hours of NS2 experience on a third party VOIP are on.


    But like Colt you also can't wait to throw a certain factor back into public players faces, player incompetence. You keep jibber jabbering on to explain why multiple people with 1k+ hours each who are using third party VOIP and know the game inside out now need to be on each others team 9 times out of 10, great effort m8, I feel Colt didn't expand on this angle of the phenomenon of "Skill Stacking" and it really makes me feel for how difficult it must be to be a competitive player in a dead game. Specifically in public games. Specifically when you're individually better than 99% of the rest of the server.

    But it's ok, you're one of those competitive players, just like Colt, doing gods work "counter stacking", I hope you add #mentor to your name like some other helpful chap in the NS2 PT team who did a fuck of a lot of mentoring recently on a server I was on.

    *tips fedora*

    You come across like an angry teenager; you make a point and then glaze it over with half-baked conjecture and personal insults. You would achieve a great deal more in both the arenas of progressing your ideas and obtaining the respect you so obviously, desperately crave by adopting at least a reasonable and respectful tone. You would charade as a 'hero of the pubs', but after reading your words, all you are is a bitter troll.


    joshhh wrote: »
    Just wanted to point out some misinformation. Colt plays almost 100% on KKG. Myself, a former All-In member, and almost of the rest of Old All-In' are banned from KKG. lol

    Actually, while I play on KKG quite a bit, I also play on Crack Miata, Steamgamers, and Diamonds. Just usually in the off-hours/non-peak times. I see a little stacking, but not much. Usually it's 1-3 decent players per-side, with one side having a distinct but expected advantage.


    Thanks for your time,
    Colt
  • crymearivercrymeariver Join Date: 2013-08-29 Member: 187185Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    The last time went to a KKG server it had some minor performance issues once it filled up and featured a group or 3-4 people all stacking the same team... both could also be contributing to their lowered activity. I'll stick to my regular servers where the teams are almost always sorted through a balance mod even if the mod responsible for assigning teams seems to hate me sometimes.

    The few times I do care about being on the same team as a friend I just go to one of the many servers that don't seem to bother with having an admin presence to balance/random teams regardless of the skill of my group and I to that of the server population.

    If all of the people posting here really want to see more random/KDR etc. sorted teams take your concerns to the server admins where you play. Their forums are a much better place for the discussion of their server policies and mods for controlling teams than these forums. Complaining to UWE isn't going to make the Sabot system come faster so if you wish to facilitate change in the game faster you will have to take it upon yourselves to do so.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    Xao wrote: »
    Shouts outs to member/s of NS2 PT team and member/s of a US clan for being knob ends and stacking CMGaming before, doing gods work once again.
    Wait.. wait... what?
    Am I reading this correctly?
    A PT is so skilled he is actually being considered as assisting in skill stacking??

    I don't believe it. Really.. i don't. Its sorta common knowledge that PTs are not brought on for their skills, and moreso that we really don't have much in comparison to any average competitive player.
    I love my PTs... but we are not skilled players.. so much so that our feedback that we give on map balance is typically in opposition to the map testing team, (which is comprised of competitive players) as we more represent "pub games"..


    In short, your argument just lost all credibility right there for me.
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    Ironhorse, stop killing servers damnit!
    *shakes fist*
  • current1ycurrent1y Join Date: 2003-12-08 Member: 24150Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    edited October 2013
    stupid play testers team stacking sons of bitches :(|)
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
    I remember that one time I joined IronHorse on a us server, had awful latency due to me being eu, and yup I didnt have THAT many troubles. :P
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