Natural Selection 2 World Championship - Natural Selection 2

13

Comments

  • MrPinkMrPink Members Join Date: 2002-05-28 Member: 678Posts: 1,635 Fully active user
    15% of the way there on funding, not looking too good. That's too bad, I was hoping it would happen. Might extend the life of the game by a couple months.
    Get off my plane.
  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Posts: 1,037
    MrPink wrote: »
    15% of the way there on funding, not looking too good. That's too bad, I was hoping it would happen. Might extend the life of the game by a couple months.

    The tournament will still happen, it just won't have a live event attached
    if it keeps on raining the levee's going to break
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call?Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Posts: 3,191 Fully active user
    Well I just got home from holiday so I thought I'd donate, even though it doesn't look great to meet its target. I think this is a fantastic idea, and with proper planning not just for the tourney, but also from UWE, can actually really massively help the grass roots of the game, too: ie getting all those newbie friendly features right (like good quality matchmaking and randoming for servers).

    Right behind you, @WasabiOne
    For all your gorge busting needs.
    It is very strange how some1 who spend so much time makeing videos to help mans, can fall and take miror image of dark ages bourgeoisie, outdated set of belifs
    How True.
    Virsoulfrantix
  • WasabiOneWasabiOne Co-Lead NS2 CDT Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104623Posts: 758 Advanced user
    dont give up hope people, there is some moving going on in the background that could be a big boost. Remember though encourage people to donate even $10, it may mean more poeple need to donate but if 2500 people donate $10, we hit the goal. if 1000 people donate $25 we hit the goal... really not crazy numbers
    frantix
  • ZalamaelZalamael Members Join Date: 2013-08-18 Member: 186949Posts: 121
    I'm going to throw some in after payday, but I have to admit, this could really do with a link somewhere on the forums to keep it fresh in everyone's mind. Even just the progress ladder somewhere at the side of the main page etc.
  • NammNamm Members Join Date: 2011-12-08 Member: 137116Posts: 412 Fully active user
    It isn't astroturfing if it's clear who made the donation.

    What's the problem with some of the devs using their own money (not UWE's money, their own money)? All it's telling me is that they're dedicated to their game. Too bad it hasn't been a huge turnout, that's all.
    Eternally Gratituded™
    Vetinari
  • ResRes Members Join Date: 2003-08-27 Member: 20245Posts: 626
    edited October 2013
    Zali wrote: »
    Meanwhile back in the real world NS2 has an average of about 500 concurrent players. The actual number of people who care probably isn't much higher than that.

    but... but... but... this championship is supposed to change the way we play NS2 for years to come!!!!! AND make it a true eSport contender!!!!!!!!!!


    I really don't understand how anyone could of come to the conclusion that receiving $30k in donations would even be remotely possible with the current NS2 playerbase. I was the first one to mention that this wasn't going to happen right after the big announcement and mentioned that only way it will happen is if UWE forks over more money for it.

    edit: There's only one way I can think of to even remotely get $30k in donations and that's if UWE offers up another free weekend(S) and splashes the championship info largely on the main menu and goes around advertising it. I wouldn't expect that to happen though.
    Blarney_Stone
  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Posts: 1,037
    The problem is that most people don't have anything to gain by donating. This is only going to benefit the best NS2 players in the world and the people who are organizing the event, and I'm not one of those people. It won't make any difference at all to me whether I'm watching a live event or a non-live event. The only argument you could really make is that it will extend the life of the game and so on, but honestly I'm a little skeptical as to whether it will really do that. None of the past live events or free weekends has led to a permanent increase of the playerbase so I don't see why this one would be any different. And no, a minuscule chance of winning a trip to the live event isn't going to cut it for me.
    if it keeps on raining the levee's going to break
    MrRadicalEdElectr0
  • ZalamaelZalamael Members Join Date: 2013-08-18 Member: 186949Posts: 121
    Res wrote: »
    I was the first one to mention that this wasn't going to happen right after the big announcement

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHHKU4znvo8

    halfofaheaven
  • Maxx11_v2.0Maxx11_v2.0 Members Join Date: 2012-11-18 Member: 172221Posts: 274
    Zali wrote: »
    Hell, you even backed your own project to the tune of $100. What's up with that? It's simply unprofessional when this is supposed to be a funded-by-the-community project. Right now the backer list reads more like a bad how-to on astroturfing.

    I'm actually going to disagree with you on this one. Backing by the devs and especially Wasabi is exactly what needed to happen. Asking people to help realize his dream of casting a professional tournament (which also involves flying and accommodating the casters) while failing back it himself would be a terrible move.

    Its no secret that NS2 has been a giant hat thats been passed around the community since its inception with the preorder campaign and reinforced as the prime, but not the only, examples. In this case, and especially since UWE has a lot to gain from a successful event of this kind, its more than OK and borderline required, to have this event backed by both the organizers and the games developers.

    The real problem here is that Wasabi seems to be taking the easy rout and falling back on the supposedly ever so ready to dish out the cash at a moments notice community instead of trying to find some sponsors (other than UWEs contribution who stand to gain the most from this kind of exposure) to at least partly fund this event. Now I say "seems" because I have seen absolutely no mention of this kind of activity.

    Its a good idea with very poor timing and a parade of mistakes along the way.
  • eh?eh? Members Join Date: 2012-03-03 Member: 147997Posts: 517 Fully active user
    Yeah, none of that will ever happen.

    UWE had more than enough time to do any of that if it was ever going to happen. Not a priority.
    MrRadicalEdLocklearhalfofaheaven
  • ForlornHopeForlornHope Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Join Date: 2003-08-01 Member: 18675Posts: 226 Fully active user
    edited October 2013
    I was initially aggressively against the whole idea. I thought we'd been delivered a strong slap to the face but that was just down to the terribly thought out reveal of the idea and some misconceptions they brought on themselves (now fully admitted by them).

    I now want to retract my previous moaning about it and I'm going to donate (on payday) because if this event doesn't happen, our best hopes of NS2 lasting (Red Dog, Wasabi, the casters, the NSL etc) will be delivered a massive blow and they will likely not attempt something this size ever again (whether it be for the good of the minority or the majority). If the community just gives negativity, that is the end off the community.

    If you believe in NS2, then I think we need to support (not necessary with money) the guys making stuff happen for us, even if it's not aimed to benefit us directly. There are not many of us compared to other games so when someone puts the effort in to arrange something out of the ordinary, we all need to get behind them or we will never see anything big happen for this game again and personally, I hate that idea.

    There are loads of ways to offer support, spreading the word, offering to help, forming a team, donating, or even just thanking them for putting the time in. It's hard to be motivated to hold events (or map or mod or contribute to a community) that can't even offer an appreciative pat on the back in return.

    This event could easily still happen despite the fund currently being lower than hoped. Sponsors have been mentioned and could cover some of the funding needed.

    A lot of people are asking what is in it for them since they either are not competitive players or they haven no hopes of reaching a live final. Here are some benefits:
    - We get to watch the matches.
    - As long as Hugh doesn't break out the facepaint, we get to watch some really exciting finals in a live studio!
    - Twitch front page will make back the donation money from UWE and give them more to buy the time to invest in fixes.
    - The extra sales will bring more new blood. A small percentage of them will be creative/technical types that will contribute to the game (mapping, mods etc) and a lot more more will join the competitive side. All of us will see the difference on public servers and the greater numbers mean more servers stay online.
    - The community members running and creating stuff will keep faith in what they are doing and may do other things for us in the future.
    - We get to feel smug knowing we've helped make it happen.
    - The older players will get to feel smug knowing that we've contributed more money towards a game that has given them 100s (1000s in some cases) of hours of entertainment.
    - We get to feel smug knowing that we've kept our community alive a little longer and maybe even helped it grow for the better.

    I'm sure there are more benefits but I am in work and need to do something before I get in trouble.
    Space Hero / Alien Throttler / Sex Icon
    ZalamaelVetinariSebHowser
  • MrRadicalEdMrRadicalEd Turrent Master Members Join Date: 2004-08-13 Member: 30601Posts: 716 Fully active user
    Okay. Cool, bring attention to the game, but let's not address player retention. eSports are cool, but when you have a poor selection of servers and low player counts, how is the playerbase supposed to grow?
    What if we crowdfund the Director's Chair?
    LocklearBensonElectr0
  • Electr0Electr0 Members Join Date: 2011-10-31 Member: 130337Posts: 349
    If those benefiting want it so badly why don't they pay for their own hotel and flights, stop expecting the community to pay for your fun little trip, it's not like we get anything out of it, uwe/competitive guys are taking the **** a bit with their recently donation expectations, hundreds of dollars for a skin or model, silly amounts for a week working on a mod, come on don't be so stupid as to expect most want to pay for this stuff, only hardcore fans might and even they are probably getting tired of it.
  • tallhotblondetallhotblonde Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-12-11 Member: 174770Posts: 216 Fully active user
    The bottom line is that the skill gap between the top 5 teams and everyone else is so large that people are paying to send Godar/snails/quaxy and friends on holiday. It's rediculous and pointless,
    Public players are saying that this is for the competitive community but it's not, it's for the elite competitive few and they arnt getting a penny from me. I only play competitive, I've played in season 1 2 and 3 and all the cups in between and I think @WasabiOne is deluded and out of touch with both sides of the community if he thinks the
    Current championship format effects
    anyone apart from the shout casters and extreme premier player.
    kalakujahalfofaheaven
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WIMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Posts: 1,437 Advanced user
    edited October 2013
    @Locklear pretty much summed up my opinion on the whole matter. What I find more shocking is the amount of hate posts towards the event. It's a community event. If you disagree with its cause, don't donate. lol No need to spew opinionated babble at everyone else about how stupid of an idea it is. And no this isn't directed at any individual person.

    I personally give Wasabi props for taking the initiative. If the event doesn't happen, it really won't affect anyone other than like 24 people. lol
    Wob
  • ForlornHopeForlornHope Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Join Date: 2003-08-01 Member: 18675Posts: 226 Fully active user
    Okay. Cool, bring attention to the game, but let's not address player retention. eSports are cool, but when you have a poor selection of servers and low player counts, how is the playerbase supposed to grow?

    This is a community run event. How are they supposed to address retention?
    Space Hero / Alien Throttler / Sex Icon
    VetinariHowser
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Members, Reinforced - Supporter Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Posts: 3,432 Advanced user
    @ForlornHope If you keep using logic, we're going to have a problem.
    76561197996992409.png
    ForlornHopeVetinarihalfofaheaven
  • BensonBenson Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Posts: 1,296 Advanced user
    edited October 2013
    Before I donate, I'd like to know who is going to cast the games.

    Personally, I would prefer to have Reddog and Blind cast them (since I see them as the most popular US and Euro casters respectively), but I understand if financial restrictions make that impossible.

    Anyway, who would be casting this theoretical live event?
    If we are to be damned, let us be damned for what we really are. - Capt. Jean Luc Picard
    Mouse
  • WasabiOneWasabiOne Co-Lead NS2 CDT Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104623Posts: 758 Advanced user
    While I appreciate a lot of the concerns related to this event, the one that stands out the most is "whats in it for me?" I'm not in a top level team, I wont be at the live event, why would I pay for others to take a trip... Well the simple answer is entertainment. We are looking at a 6-10hr stream of the top level of NS2 play and a lot of the people in this thread that complain about this event are those that tune in to casts by the community on a regular basis. All we are asking is for a small individual donation of $10 or more should you feel generous, but instead you decide to say negetive things about the game, its current state, players, etc... when that has nothing to do with this event. If you dont want to donate, fine no big deal. If you do, great! if we dont meet our goal you get your money back. If we do meet it, then we work with even more community members to make this the best it can be. The tournament is happening regardless and we are currently lining up prizes for both the Top and Horizon Bracket winners. I am not a DEV and I have no control over the way the game is programmed or changed, so to throw frustration at me and the other community members over our hard work to bring this project forward is misguided and disappointing.

    As always, we as a community are strong and NS2 would be a far different game if it werent for the people that have stuck around through all the changes. Together we can make this event happen, but even if it doesnt happen on the scale we had hopped, we did our part to spread the word more about the game we love.

    Please visit gofundme.com/ns2worldchampionship today and help support! If you cant afford to donate but would still like to help, please contact me and we can work to find you a place on our team.
    ForlornHopeHowserNammjoshhh
  • WasabiOneWasabiOne Co-Lead NS2 CDT Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104623Posts: 758 Advanced user
    at this moment, Myself, Reddog and Blind are all listed to be at the event for casting.
    BensonMouse
  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Posts: 1,037
    edited October 2013
    A lot of people are asking what is in it for them since they either are not competitive players or they haven no hopes of reaching a live final. Here are some benefits:
    - We get to watch the matches.
    - As long as Hugh doesn't break out the facepaint, we get to watch some really exciting finals in a live studio!
    - Twitch front page will make back the donation money from UWE and give them more to buy the time to invest in fixes.
    - The extra sales will bring more new blood. A small percentage of them will be creative/technical types that will contribute to the game (mapping, mods etc) and a lot more more will join the competitive side. All of us will see the difference on public servers and the greater numbers mean more servers stay online.
    - The community members running and creating stuff will keep faith in what they are doing and may do other things for us in the future.
    - We get to feel smug knowing we've helped make it happen.
    - The older players will get to feel smug knowing that we've contributed more money towards a game that has given them 100s (1000s in some cases) of hours of entertainment.
    - We get to feel smug knowing that we've kept our community alive a little longer and maybe even helped it grow for the better.

    - The matches will happen anyway
    - It makes no difference to me if the finals are in a live studio or over an internet connection, all that matters are the games
    - Will Twitch front page really make back $30,000 at this point in the game's life span? Definitely isn't a sure thing. And Twitch front page will presumably happen whether the event is live or not, so the benefits are theoretically the same.
    - Previous live events have not led to a significant lasting increase in playerbase, I see no reason why this one would be any different.
    - I don't care about feeling smug, I contribute money if I think it is going to a good cause. I donated to Reinforced because it was made clear that the money would go towards continued NS2 development. I'm simply not convinced, based on the previous two live events, that this tournament will do anything at all to increase NS2's playerbase or further its development.
    if it keeps on raining the levee's going to break
  • BensonBenson Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Posts: 1,296 Advanced user
    WasabiOne wrote: »
    at this moment, Myself, Reddog and Blind are all listed to be at the event for casting.

    Nice! Come payday, I'll be sure to drop some money in the fund :D
    If we are to be damned, let us be damned for what we really are. - Capt. Jean Luc Picard
    WasabiOne
  • ForlornHopeForlornHope Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Join Date: 2003-08-01 Member: 18675Posts: 226 Fully active user
    edited October 2013
    - The matches will happen anyway
    - It makes no difference to me if the finals are in a live studio or over an internet connection, all that matters are the games
    - Will Twitch front page really make back $30,000 at this point in the game's life span? Definitely isn't a sure thing. And Twitch front page will presumably happen whether the event is live or not, so the benefits are theoretically the same.
    - Previous live events have not led to a significant lasting increase in playerbase, I see no reason why this one would be any different.
    - I don't care about feeling smug, I contribute money if I think it is going to a good cause. I donated to Reinforced because it was made clear that the money would go towards continued NS2 development. I'm simply not convinced, based on the previous two live events, that this tournament will do anything at all to increase NS2's playerbase or further its development.

    The great thing is that you can see this thing as you want to see it and decide to donate or not donate as you wish. People getting angry when no one is forcing them to donate is just daft... it took me a while to realise this and was angry at the start.

    Now I've chilled out and thought about it, I can't see anything bad coming out of this. I actually would feel really happy (for both a game I love and for the guys who will be working their butts off to make the event happen) if a big community project can be achieved.
    Space Hero / Alien Throttler / Sex Icon
    WasabiOneHowser
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call?Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Posts: 3,191 Fully active user
    edited October 2013
    @WasabiOne (and @Hugh) I think it's a great idea and have donated (only a modest sum, but over the $10 you suggest!). I would love to think I could be in with a chance of making it to such finals, but of course that's ridiculous for the (not very talented) div3 player that I am (it's a pipedream, but hey we can all dream :) ).

    What I would dearly love to see now is a commitment from UWE to work with you casters and with the top clans (representatives, or the whole comp community, doesn't really matter) on what improvements to the game need to be made and what would be good to have before the tournament happens and by the time of the finals.

    If UWE can say 'okay, we'll work with the comp community and casters towards this goal before the world champs' that will go a LONG way to putting NS2 on the map as a competitive game. Part of that may mean some performance improvements - certainly on the server side; part might mean improvements to spectating modes, anti cheat mechanisms (in preparation of increasing the player base), improvements to the net code, and a functioning matchmaking system to promote more competitive-style gaming for more of the public community - for example.

    To help them with this, it would be good for the comp community and casters to come up with a list of must-haves and good-to-haves to present to UWE as soon as possible to kickstart discussions about how things can be improved such that NS2 can have a stronger competitive scene and also, very importantly, increase the quality of ALL games, pub and comp alike.

    Roo
    For all your gorge busting needs.
    It is very strange how some1 who spend so much time makeing videos to help mans, can fall and take miror image of dark ages bourgeoisie, outdated set of belifs
    How True.
  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Posts: 1,337 Advanced user
    edited October 2013
    Roobubba wrote: »
    @WasabiOne (and @Hugh) I think it's a great idea and have donated (only a modest sum, but over the $10 you suggest!). I would love to think I could be in with a chance of making it to such finals, but of course that's ridiculous for the (not very talented) div3 player that I am (it's a pipedream, but hey we can all dream :) ).

    What I would dearly love to see now is a commitment from UWE to work with you casters and with the top clans (representatives, or the whole comp community, doesn't really matter) on what improvements to the game need to be made and what would be good to have before the tournament happens and by the time of the finals.

    If UWE can say 'okay, we'll work with the comp community and casters towards this goal before the world champs' that will go a LONG way to putting NS2 on the map as a competitive game. Part of that may mean some performance improvements - certainly on the server side; part might mean improvements to spectating modes, anti cheat mechanisms (in preparation of increasing the player base), improvements to the net code, and a functioning matchmaking system to promote more competitive-style gaming for more of the public community - for example.

    To help them with this, it would be good for the comp community and casters to come up with a list of must-haves and good-to-haves to present to UWE as soon as possible to kickstart discussions about how things can be improved such that NS2 can have a stronger competitive scene and also, very importantly, increase the quality of ALL games, pub and comp alike.

    Roo

    Exactly.

    This event shows that UWE to some extent and the community wants to support competitive, at least to some degree. Posts like mine above are trying to explain the best ways to do so; and what's really holding it back.

    It's not been a lack of events or prizes. (many of these even in the Beta period of tournaments) It's the core issues listed by me, Gliss, and countless others.

    We give this feedback not because we're hating on the event, or hating on NS2.. but because we love the game and want/wanted it to go further than this. And we're trying to explain what's keeping it from doing so.
    "If great visuals brings players in, great gameplay gets them to stay." - Valve
  • ForlornHopeForlornHope Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Join Date: 2003-08-01 Member: 18675Posts: 226 Fully active user
    edited October 2013
    @WasabiOne - It is turning out to be very hard to donate from the UK via gofundme. First of all it wouldn't accept my address and offered no errors why. Finally after just messing with it, it somehow got to the payment screen were it wont accept my card details. I pressed the "Pay via bank account option" and it wants a routing number which means I now have to phone my bank up. I'm guessing it's the same for a lot of other countries too and I'd be willing to bet you've lots a lot of donation opportunities from people just giving up on trying to get it working. I thought I better warn you in case there is anything at all that can be done to improve it.

    EDIT - Turned out my bank blocked it as the fraud team gave me a call. Will try again. The form is still playing up when entering the address though.
    Post edited by ForlornHope on
    Space Hero / Alien Throttler / Sex Icon
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