Why doesn't the welder overlap the standard build tool?

ns2isgoodns2isgood Join Date: 2013-04-16 Member: 184847Members
What purpose does it serve to have the standard building tool and the welder when the welder is superior in every area?

I don't understand why the welder needs it's own slot when you buy it. Why doesn't it just replace the standard build tool when someone buys the welder? It would be a lot more convenient if I could pull out the welding tool when I hold E to build something. I often find myself forgetting I have a welder while holding E and using the standard repair tool to build stuff, then I remember I have the welder and fumble to pull it out and continue building. It would also be nice to hold E to weld/repair objects so it puts itself away and equips my weapon automatically when I'm done.
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Comments

  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    The only tiny problem I see is with welding moving objects (ARCs, MACs and Marines) Having to press both W and E instead of W and Mouse1. You canae dodge/sidestep efficiently to the right man, think of the lost dodge potential :P

    It's pretty easy to hold E and D with the same finger.
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members
    I think all he wants is for the E (use) button to get a building buff if you have a welder (buffed to equal the building rate of a welder). Currently it seems like you have 2 welders one that is bound to E and one that is bound to #3...
  • SamusDroidSamusDroid Colorado Join Date: 2013-05-13 Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    As long as I can still weld things like we can now, sounds good.
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    Uhh... So maybe when you buy a welder the hotkey for use becomes the hotkey for welder?

    And the axe stays as axe?

    Would be nice, no need to drop welder anymore when axing harvesters.
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
    only win in these suggestions
  • xBlueXFoxxxBlueXFoxx Join Date: 2013-06-07 Member: 185497Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    I believe there was a topic awhile back that right click should be used to weld instead of melee, I'm still all for this.
  • ns2isgoodns2isgood Join Date: 2013-04-16 Member: 184847Members
    edited October 2013
    xBlueXFoxx wrote: »
    I believe there was a topic awhile back that right click should be used to weld instead of melee, I'm still all for this.

    Why even add in new binds? Just overlap the standard build tool when a welder is bought as it becomes redundant. If someone drops their welder, just have it revert back to the standard build tool.
  • xBlueXFoxxxBlueXFoxx Join Date: 2013-06-07 Member: 185497Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    That video is amazing.
  • xBlueXFoxxxBlueXFoxx Join Date: 2013-06-07 Member: 185497Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    ns2isgood wrote: »
    xBlueXFoxx wrote: »
    I believe there was a topic awhile back that right click should be used to weld instead of melee, I'm still all for this.

    Why even add in new binds? Just overlap the standard build tool when a welder is bought as it becomes redundant. If someone drops their welder, just have it revert back to the standard build tool.

    I think "hold E to weld marine" would be a bit tedious.

  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    xBlueXFoxx wrote: »
    ns2isgood wrote: »
    xBlueXFoxx wrote: »
    I believe there was a topic awhile back that right click should be used to weld instead of melee, I'm still all for this.

    Why even add in new binds? Just overlap the standard build tool when a welder is bought as it becomes redundant. If someone drops their welder, just have it revert back to the standard build tool.

    I think "hold E to weld marine" would be a bit tedious.

    As tedious as holding e to build building?
  • HobocopHobocop Join Date: 2010-11-23 Member: 75226Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    It's easier to maneuver while holding Mouse 1 as opposed to E. Being forced to hold the build button to use welder would make it way too fiddly to use when trying to repair teammates in combat when right now I can just switch to the completely separate welder weapon and hold Mouse 1 and sweep in their general direction.
  • xBlueXFoxxxBlueXFoxx Join Date: 2013-06-07 Member: 185497Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited October 2013
    james888 wrote: »
    xBlueXFoxx wrote: »
    ns2isgood wrote: »
    xBlueXFoxx wrote: »
    I believe there was a topic awhile back that right click should be used to weld instead of melee, I'm still all for this.

    Why even add in new binds? Just overlap the standard build tool when a welder is bought as it becomes redundant. If someone drops their welder, just have it revert back to the standard build tool.

    I think "hold E to weld marine" would be a bit tedious.

    As tedious as holding e to build building?

    Buildings don't move.

    Also MAC's will be asking if I want a coffee quite often.

  • hub3rtu2hub3rtu2 Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165478Members, Reinforced - Diamond
    Hold RMB to weld. Oh, there's rifle butt binded when you hold a rifle and there's also... oh wait, there isn't, RMB is left without function with any other weapon.
    It would give a free slot for an axe while having the welder, now you can't have both, kind of. Some people will defend rifle butt to death though, so yeah, fat chance on that.
    Someone could at least make a bind script for such functionality, if it's at all possible with config files. Or a mod.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    hub3rtu2 wrote: »
    Hold RMB to weld. Oh, there's rifle butt binded when you hold a rifle and there's also... oh wait, there isn't, RMB is left without function with any other weapon.

    One word: Exo.
  • hub3rtu2hub3rtu2 Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165478Members, Reinforced - Diamond
    hub3rtu2 wrote: »
    Hold RMB to weld. Oh, there's rifle butt binded when you hold a rifle and there's also... oh wait, there isn't, RMB is left without function with any other weapon.

    One word: Exo.

    Okay you got me, but you can't weld in an Exo anyways, so it would still work.
  • xBlueXFoxxxBlueXFoxx Join Date: 2013-06-07 Member: 185497Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited October 2013
    Rifle butting could be binded to a key, it's of lesser priority and hardly used, the ability to switch between welder to weapon by simply letting go of RMB would be much more convenient and more responsive then reaching for a key and switching, then of course there's that one thing that's apparently dreaded around UWE and the forums, but it could be an in-game setting that's optional based on preference. Building structures could even be binded to right click, then it would be a perfect world and draw millions to the game.

    Right click can suddenly be used for melee attack, building, and welding. Welding of course replacing the axe melee, maybe? It does do quite a bit of damage.
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    You'd think that video is about the welder but it's actually about how goddamn ninja marines are. Dat acceleration.
  • NazoNazo Such Is Life in The Zone Join Date: 2010-12-16 Member: 75720Members, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    edited October 2013
    If marine jumping is nerfed, I think it should go back NS1 style to compensate

    Can hold a: Main-gun/pistol/knife/welder/(nade?)
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2013
    You'd think that video is about the welder but it's actually about how goddamn ninja marines are. Dat acceleration.

    That was before strafe jump. That was in beta I believe. B221 to be exact.
  • NeoQuaker1NeoQuaker1 New York Join Date: 2013-02-19 Member: 183182Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Using Mouse4 instead of E for "use" ftw. Problem solved.
  • xen32xen32 Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    james888 wrote: »
    The sheer epicness of the contents of the following video are why:
    Dat infestation. I want it back.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    I've had to use e instead of a welder to build something because I was welding something instead of building something. Also letting go of use is a faster quickswitch than welder to rifle
  • SammeySammey Join Date: 2012-06-14 Member: 153266Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Ok, lets say welder becomes E when obtained.
    What happens if I have a welder, and I want to weld the Armory,the Prototype lab or my Exosuit.

    NO!
  • CrushaKCrushaK Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167195Members, NS2 Playtester
    Am I really the only person who actually rebinds keys? Since this is a game for the PC and I actually can?
    My use key is Return, my movement keys are the arrow keys. Building something while strafing is no problem that way.
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members
    Sammey wrote: »
    Ok, lets say welder becomes E when obtained.
    What happens if I have a welder, and I want to weld the Armory,the Prototype lab or my Exosuit.

    NO!

    Or welder becomes E and slot 3.... In effect your building welder gets buffed to be the same as your welder... Now you don't have to carry around 2...

  • xBlueXFoxxxBlueXFoxx Join Date: 2013-06-07 Member: 185497Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited October 2013
    The welder shown in the art concepts (included with the deluxe version of the came in your /Natural Selection 2/Deluxe/) folder shows that the welder is an extension to the build tool (an addon.)

    Right click can be used dynamically also depending what your crosshair is on when you right click. It replaces your axe but you still carry a welder and build tool, how does that make sense? Might as well just make it replace both when buying it as it's clearly multi purpose (perhaps keep 3 as the button to switch to switchaxe, since it's still a viable option, and does more damage than the welder technically)

    If you do not have a welder, right click and switch axe can be RMB depending if you're aiming at a structure or blank, similar to how it already switches back to your gun if you aim off a structure that's not completed.

    The idea here is right click being a support button, left click being an attack button, similar to how you see on games like Left 4 dead 1/2 when holding a med pack.

    If this is agreed upon and implemented, make it optional for people who prefer it being a support button, or for people who like rifle butting being right click instead of a key press.

    XJiqTxK.png
  • ezekelezekel Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173589Members, NS2 Map Tester
    Here's a tip, if you're low on armor and near a structure that needs to be built and have a welder, begin building the structure with the regular build tool, then halfway through begin welding it; the building is more complete than it has health/armor so anything you do with the welder now counts as healing it to the health it should have at that built percent, thus giving you armor from a structure that was never damaged to begin with :)
  • RedSwordRedSword Join Date: 2006-12-07 Member: 58947Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    james888 wrote: »
    The sheer epicness of the contents of the following video are why:

    That gorge lul.
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