State of Development: September 2013 - Natural Selection 2

13

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  • RedSwordRedSword Join Date: 2006-12-07 Member: 58947Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
  • [AwE]Sentinel[AwE]Sentinel Join Date: 2012-06-05 Member: 152949Members
    I vote for ns2-Battlechess!
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Max wrote: »
    Squishpoke wrote: »
    I'm hoping that their next game will be just as unique as NS2. NS2's FPS/RTS combo is pretty much the game idea where you say "duh, why haven't other people been making games like this?" after looking at it.

    Personally, I think single player games are mostly dull derivatives, especially in recent times. Most of the interesting games to me have been multiplayer (such as DayZ, the Hidden, TF2, etc). Perhaps UWE could pull off a single player game if they had a good writer and a good yarn to spin.

    Safe bet would be that UWE may work on another unique multiplayer game. Perhaps something like a first person arena shooter with wizards and spell casting (First Person Magicka, anyone?). Or maybe an interesting cooperative experience: you and a few friends work together as engineers to keep a starship functional (let's call this one Star Tech).
    Have you considered the "Game Director" badge?

    Baby steps! I've only just recently moved my bank account balance to the positive numbers, thanks to the nice lady behind the counter.
  • WalsaWalsa Join Date: 2011-06-28 Member: 106813Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    ZEROibis wrote: »
    I am just a bit worried that there was no direct mention of improving performance. I assume that is a result of bug fixes but this game still has major cpu limitations for both clients and servers.

    This have been worrying me from some time. I think the only thing UWE can do is some tweaks to the engine and that's it. LuaJit, code optimizations, that kind of things.

    For NS2 to improve its performance at a grater scale would mean an engine rewrite, like moving all the lua code of the base game logics to the engine itself, but that will eliminate/restrict the modding possibilities and rapid prototyping of spark. That is why I think they are focusing most of the time at content updates.

    This is my personal opinion, and maybe is not based in actual facts, things that only the people who work with UWE know. But after this years in the forums, and reading the responses from the developers in the matter of performance, its difficult to think otherwise :(

    I still have high hopes for better NS2. the content is awesome as the mechanics, but only the implementation leaves much to be desired.

    I wish UWE the best luck in their new project/s and will be waiting for the day when the servers doesn't require a consumer grade CPU (overclocked) to run at a constant tickrate till endgame.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    edited October 2013
    Popture wrote: »
    Whatever new game they are making, it's likely to be using the spark engine. So, that'll hint toward what sort of game it might be.
    The spark engine is essentially the renderer and the editing tools etc etc, all of which can be continued to be adjusted and improved upon continuously..
    NS2 is basically a mod written in LUA sitting ontop of spark.

    They by no means have to stick with LUA for their next "spark mod" if they don't want to. ;)
  • 0ni0ni Join Date: 2012-08-30 Member: 156991Members
    Why don't y'all just pimp out your extra employees to Cloud Imperium Games for a while and use the time and money from that to chose future ventures more carefully. Your art department would be a shoe in considering the gritty sci-fi resume that y'all have here.

    What I'm getting at is there is ways to get some income while you take some time to really flush out your plans from the future. Sub contracting is a nice short term time filler. Plus you'd get some cry engine experience which could be useful in the future. Hell, you can pimp your whole team out really. Even if you keep adding stuff to NS2 you don't have to do it RIGHT NOW. Relax, move on and try something else for a while. Come back with a fresh perspective for a bit and then commit full on to whatever you think will be best for your company.

    One important request from me personally to you UWE personally: please make your next game with steamOS in mind, I'd appreciate it since (thanks to you guys) I am now officially off of windows gaming.


    Anyway, just some thoughts, y'all don't care what I think anyway. :p
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Lets crowd fund for the game directors badge so that Squishpoke can make his ideas reality!!!
  • ezekelezekel Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173589Members, NS2 Map Tester
    There's nothing wrong with single-player games.. but the bar is set that much higher if it needs to be single-player only, it needs to play good, have an awesome atmosphere/writing/voice acting, and the AI needs to be enjoyable to deal with (even if difficult) and your character needs to be fun to play

    For example, devil may cry is a crap load of fun with difficult enemies and the amount of combos you need to remember/take advantage of

    Amnesia the dark descent was extremely well made and atmospheric, the narration when picking up a letter from your character.. I mean just wonderful stuff

    Anyway all I want to know is.. is it SP or MP or both :P

    I always wanted a team based arena shooter (halo) on pc, not quite like unreal or quake; halo really focused on the teamplay aspect because the game had a kind of low skill ceiling.. but it was just so awesome

    anyway im off topic lol
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation
    Walsa wrote: »
    This have been worrying me from some time. I think the only thing UWE can do is some tweaks to the engine and that's it. LuaJit, code optimizations, that kind of things.

    For NS2 to improve its performance at a grater scale would mean an engine rewrite, like moving all the lua code of the base game logics to the engine itself, but that will eliminate/restrict the modding possibilities and rapid prototyping of spark. That is why I think they are focusing most of the time at content updates.

    This is my personal opinion, and maybe is not based in actual facts, things that only the people who work with UWE know. But after this years in the forums, and reading the responses from the developers in the matter of performance, its difficult to think otherwise :(

    I still have high hopes for better NS2. the content is awesome as the mechanics, but only the implementation leaves much to be desired.

    I wish UWE the best luck in their new project/s and will be waiting for the day when the servers doesn't require a consumer grade CPU (overclocked) to run at a constant tickrate till endgame.

    I think they said something about being able to possibly multi thread LUAJit or something so that in theory if we could split between two cores the game could actually run on server equipment. However, I have not seen or heard anything else for a long time. My hope was that there would be an announcement sometime after reinforced but so far nothing...
  • Side1Bu2Rnz9Side1Bu2Rnz9 Join Date: 2012-10-16 Member: 162510Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    NS Tactics anyone? Everyone likes turn base games why not have it for NS
  • darkhunt333darkhunt333 Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165414Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I'm down, crowd fund NS3. Bet we could make a million at least.
  • DarkflameQDarkflameQ Join Date: 2013-02-28 Member: 183451Members
    edited October 2013
  • DarkflameQDarkflameQ Join Date: 2013-02-28 Member: 183451Members
    edited October 2013
    As of September 24th 2013, UWE is no longer wholly and only devoted to full time development of NS2. Don’t panic though – That is not the same thing as ‘NS2 development has stopped!’

    While we know it is inevitable that many players will be upset at this news...
    Far from it, i think many people (including myself) will be thrilled at this news.

    If you can just have one team member continuing to work on bug fixes and game optimisation from now on and let the community create the new maps, features, mods and game modes, that would be ideal.

    Good luck on your next game, my only extra bit of advice to you guys is that what ever game you make next, make sure it is fully optimised before you release it.

    Thanks for the gift that is NS2, i absolutely love the fact you guys made a game for the community and not just for profit.

    Thanks to the modding and mapping tools (and dedicated server support), i'm sure the game will be played for many years to come!
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Sell everything to Valve and re-release the game on source? :D
  • MMZ_TorakMMZ_Torak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 3770Members
    Max wrote: »
    Squishpoke wrote: »
    I'm hoping that their next game will be just as unique as NS2. NS2's FPS/RTS combo is pretty much the game idea where you say "duh, why haven't other people been making games like this?" after looking at it.

    Personally, I think single player games are mostly dull derivatives, especially in recent times. Most of the interesting games to me have been multiplayer (such as DayZ, the Hidden, TF2, etc). Perhaps UWE could pull off a single player game if they had a good writer and a good yarn to spin.

    Safe bet would be that UWE may work on another unique multiplayer game. Perhaps something like a first person arena shooter with wizards and spell casting (First Person Magicka, anyone?). Or maybe an interesting cooperative experience: you and a few friends work together as engineers to keep a starship functional (let's call this one Star Tech).
    Have you considered the "Game Director" badge?

    Let's be honest here. Who hasn't considered the Game Director badge... 8->
  • GameOverGameOver Germany Join Date: 2003-10-15 Member: 21700Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2013
    james888 wrote: »
    Lets crowd fund for the game directors badge so that Squishpoke can make his ideas reality!!!

    We've already donated for the game directors badge! Twice!!

    Oh, we were supposed to donate to Squishpoke and not to UWE? ... Arg...
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    MMZ_Torak wrote: »
    Let's be honest here. Who hasn't considered the Game Director badge... 8->

    It's more money than I ever owned in my life, even if you add it up...
  • MilaniumMilanium Join Date: 2012-12-27 Member: 176388Members
    edited October 2013
    Let's hope that the focus on less features, more fixes makes this game better and more approachable for a bigger audience.
  • HughHugh Cameraman San Francisco, CA Join Date: 2010-04-18 Member: 71444NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts
    For those who don't like reading, here is an audio cast of the update:


    I'm down, crowd fund NS3. Bet we could make a million at least.

    Hehe - Just as a point of interest, NS2 cost ~$2.8 million to make. IF there ever was an NS3 you can bet the budget would probably at least match that, though over the past year UWE has become much more efficient and fast at 'making stuff.'

    The moneyz, they burn!
  • KwisatzHaderachKwisatzHaderach Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143872Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Squishpoke wrote: »
    Or maybe an interesting cooperative experience: you and a few friends work together as engineers to keep a starship functional (let's call this one Star Tech).

    lol, I just come from backing these guys: PULSAR: Lost Colony. Exactly what you wrote.

    Sorry for off-topic.
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Squishpoke wrote: »
    Or maybe an interesting cooperative experience: you and a few friends work together as engineers to keep a starship functional (let's call this one Star Tech).

    lol, I just come from backing these guys: PULSAR: Lost Colony. Exactly what you wrote.

    Sorry for off-topic.

    Reminds me of the time where I came up with the idea of fried potatoes surrounding fried chicken, and lo and behold it showed up on pinterest not more than 5 hours later. :P
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Join Date: 2003-11-28 Member: 23688
    Looking forward to seeing what you guys get up to in the future, personally fingers crossed for something set within the NS universe, be it NS3 or a spin off. So far we've only seen how the kharaa manifests itself within an encolsed, tight environment such a ship or facility, so much potential to explore how it adapts to other environments.

    I just hope if you go with another multiplayer experience, you stick to your current ethos and dont follow the trend of buyable/unlockable items that give players an edge over others.
  • xBlueXFoxxxBlueXFoxx Join Date: 2013-06-07 Member: 185497Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited October 2013
    Spark is amazing, but I think licensing unreal or source would just be the better marketing choice, NS2 is butchered by its bad performance server/client end, it restricts how many new players can actually join up.

    I'd love to see an NS3, or perhaps another great FPS/RTS creation, I'd not like the see the NS title die off over the years.

    In terms of marketing and promotion, has this game really seen the light of Google Adwords and popular youtubers? I'm sure if a few copies were handed out to a few popular people, the game can get plenty of promotion.
  • ezekelezekel Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173589Members, NS2 Map Tester
    edited October 2013
    xBlueXFoxx wrote: »
    Spark is amazing, but I think licensing unreal or source would just be the better marketing choice, NS2 is butchered by its bad performance server/client end, it restricts how many new players can actually join up.

    licensing unreal would actually be a gigantic mistake, also their spark engine from what I've heard does c++ so essentially that would throw away performance issues since the problem is that lua just doesn't support several threads, add in all the games 'logic' it's just too much for the few cores being used

    unreal3 and beyond is in fact one of the worst engines you can utilize for a multiplayer game, in my opinion

    edit: Also this is their engine, they understand it, it improves over time; maybe eventually they can make it so wonderful to work with + a dev kit that they can even license it out to people, who knows maybe one day they'll be one of the most recognized in the industry, I mean the most recognized now are simply trash cans with yearly terrible releases (that still sell for who knows what reason)
  • xBlueXFoxxxBlueXFoxx Join Date: 2013-06-07 Member: 185497Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Unreal is a pain on the multiplayer end, but it's not god awful. I do see how it wouldn't work well in a fast response game. Spark from what I hear is written in C++ but NS2 is a Lua based mod on top of it bridged to the engine. I for one would give up some of the simplified modding flexibility if Lua to have a better performing game. I fail to see how it would really effect modding that much, at least for experience C++ coders, scripting would be pretty much just as dynamic if not even more flexible in C++.

    As for Source, I see it come up a lot with this game in mind, I think a Source version of the game would be very fluid on the client end as many previous games have proven, but it's going to cost the graphical ends of things, and of course the beloved Spark engine will be taken up before it.

    I'd like to see NS2 expanded a bit more into Spark, but with NS2 too little too late? The asset sides of things already exist along with the features, but rewriting an entire game would take at least a year to rewrite, so it makes sense to move onto a new project, NS3?

    On that note, NS2 on the client end runs exceptional, anyone with a decent AMD Athlon x4, Phenom, APU, Vishera, Intel Pentium G series, Core2Quad, i5, i7, etc can run the game, which is basically a commonly owned CPU now, the GPU end doesn't take anything more than an HD5770/GTX460 and some fast HDD access. The server end however is sketchy, I feel it should be more focused on in future development. Servers almost always have 4 cores, taking advantage of only 1 core per server obviously is inefficient, but now I'm stating the obvious, a large 3rd installment of the game purely based on performance and marketing would be nice, with more work toward the Sabot system wired in along with possibly a price drop ($19.99?) Some banner ads via google, and some youtube promotion. I feel the game can still redeem itself, because out of the box right now, the training system with bots does not function pretty much at all along side it's major performance issues, babblers fall out of the map, server end crashes, tick drops, and freezing, major contrast between good/noob players, the game is not very attractive to a wide array of users at the moment.

    The game if anything doesn't need anymore additions like the Reinforced update has added in, it as mentioned needs more testing and solid balance/performance updates. UWE has been working hard to keep the game fresh to it's existing player base by adding in tons of new content, but it's hard to take advantage of this new content when it's the cause for higher entity count, tick drops, crashing, memory issues, and other performance related problems.

    Consider me rambling a bit, but I'd like to address the client related things too, I've mentioned this before, but I feel more flexible video options could allow for people with weaker GPU's play the game. Traditional marketing of pre built PC's, a lot of people who buy PC's off the shelf instead of designing it themselves run a lower end consumer GPU rather than a mid range gaming GPU with a PC more focused on standard application performance that comes with a good quad core CPU. Having not so flexible video settings (such as shadow resolution, lower particle count, light reflection toggling, etc.) results in these players not being able to play, and for a $24 indie game with not a lot of attention, they will not be running out to get the $120-160 GPU they need to power the game.

    Wishes to UWE, I hope some serious progress is made in the coming months, even though development will be slowed down a bit, focus on performance and making the game work in the first place, along with more play testing. Some new maps would be nice, but as I'm not an NS1 player I don't have the nostalgia for the older maps, I've played a remake of Tanith, it's a nice map.
  • MrRadicalEdMrRadicalEd Turrent Master Join Date: 2004-08-13 Member: 30601Members
    I think AT LEAST the whole LUA thing would be reconsidered. I'm sure offering the community a modding option that doesn't sacrifice performance will be seen in the future.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2013
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lua-scriptable_game_engines
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lua-scripted_video_games

    It would be foolish of them to throw away even part of the work they've put into the engine after all these years. It's theirs to use, no licensing fees, and they're all already familiar with developing it. It's only the armchair developers on the forums who think that buying a professional engine will take all the hard work out of making a game that performs well.
  • hozzhozz Join Date: 2012-11-20 Member: 172660Members
    I don't think there was/is a proper middleware to build a game like NS2 (not even looking at the licensing costs). Sure you could have used UE3 or something, but the result would have been lower quality, even without running into some unexpected, unfixable problem suddenly. It's not that easy, just choose "an engine" and then everything is just simple porting work.
    And everybody suggesting Source, have you ever used that horrible piece of stone age technology? You can't be serious.

    Looking forward to Eclipse (it is Eclipse, right?) :-h
  • shonanshonan Join Date: 2013-01-28 Member: 182562Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Zek wrote: »
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lua-scriptable_game_engines
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lua-scripted_video_games

    It would be foolish of them to throw away even part of the work they've put into the engine after all these years. It's theirs to use, no licensing fees, and they're all already familiar with developing it. It's only the armchair developers on the forums who think that buying a professional engine will take all the hard work out of making a game that performs well.

    Spark engine is written in C++, NS2 is written in Lua, you guys here keep mixing these two things.
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