What I find just totally bewildering is when experienced players come on to a 'Rookie Friendly' server and then get angry at a comm who is trying to learn how to play. How can that possibly be a constructive approach?
What I find just totally bewildering is when experienced players come on to a 'Rookie Friendly' server and then get angry at a comm who is trying to learn how to play. How can that possibly be a constructive approach?
because the only servers available are 'rookie only'
What I find just totally bewildering is when experienced players come on to a 'Rookie Friendly' server and then get angry at a comm who is trying to learn how to play. How can that possibly be a constructive approach?
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
Best solution imo: Comm-bots
They don't have to be good as long as they allow the game to proceed (drop RTs, research upgrades, etc). It would be a bit of work, but would pay much more in dividends of less frustrating public matches.
They don't have to be good as long as they allow the game to proceed (drop RTs, research upgrades, etc). It would be a bit of work, but would pay much more in dividends of less frustrating public matches.
They don't have to be good as long as they allow the game to proceed (drop RTs, research upgrades, etc). It would be a bit of work, but would pay much more in dividends of less frustrating public matches.
I used to do a fair amount of commanding. Up to the point I reluctantly got into the comm chair just to get a game going. These days I just stand in a corner and wait for some other poor bastard to get into the chair. In general I can aim better then most of my team-mates, me going comm when they can't hit the broadside of a barn wouldn't help anyone. Me not comming and us getting a sentry comm won't help. Screwed both ways for veterans.
The thing being that Khamm is flat out boring, used to be half decent when you could be a lifeform and khamm at the same time. As it stands it's something I could do while forking food down my mouth.
Comming the marines is just frustrating, they either don't listen or Master Shooter Sergeant Chief John with a fantastic k/d of 0.3 will be telling me what I'm doing wrong and that exos will surely cure what ails our team!
So when it comes down to it. I'll be Khamm when I want to relax, Comm only if I got at least one friend in the game so I know someone competent is on my team. Skill is one thing, but some people seem to be chucking some form of music down their ears. How else can they be asking if we have no comm despite telling them "hopping out of the chair to assist in area X".
Sadly this means people who know how to play the game won't be commanding as they rather play the "fun parts". So in general a beginner comm or some highly rage induced comm is what I get.
What I find just totally bewildering is when experienced players come on to a 'Rookie Friendly' server and then get angry at a comm who is trying to learn how to play. How can that possibly be a constructive approach?
Even on rookie servers a small amount of knowledge is expected. Like at least know what different structures do, and what the names are, what a cyst is etc. At least show that you've at least played a few games and messed around with bots/sandbox. I can understand frustration on those servers if a commander is THAT far behind the curve.
I com plenty of pub games, and rarely get blamed for anything. I think as long as you actually try to win, and know how to com well, no one will really blame you.
This is also granted I usually only pub with my friends who are comp players, and we usually win, but the games where we lose I don't really get blamed.
Every time I read threads like these I'm glad I found the community I did because holy hell you guys gotta put up with a lot of garbage to play this game.
I don't mind being comm, although not so much alien side the last few patches, but I'm the guy that usually only takes the chair when nobody else wants it rather than hops in at round start.
I get as much commanding as I want most of the time.
It's Super Effective!Join Date: 2012-08-28Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
I've recently started porting some of my Twitch.tv game play of me commanding some really tough games. While I do plan to make a Tactical Operations for Commanding at some point, it can sometimes be tough to explain everything. But for now, I have started a playlist on my YT channel that hopefully encapsulates some strong commanding style and decision making.
What I find just totally bewildering is when experienced players come on to a 'Rookie Friendly' server and then get angry at a comm who is trying to learn how to play. How can that possibly be a constructive approach?
Because you have to learn the game first. ~50hrs experience to know how everything works, learn the maps; then check the UI and everything in explore mode...
At least that's reasonable, it's how I did it.
When I see a greenie going comm, I explain calmly how this is not a good idea and give him some tips how to gain experience first. Then I either start an eject vote or, more oftenly, they leave the chair by themselves.
If someone is new to comming, but not a rookie anymore, I'm usually the field comm.
I com plenty of pub games, and rarely get blamed for anything. I think as long as you actually try to win, and know how to com well, no one will really blame you.
This is also granted I usually only pub with my friends who are comp players, and we usually win, but the games where we lose I don't really get blamed.
I have the same experience. I've actually commed games where I've not been blamed for losses that I thought were my fault. like overseeing and reslocking. or misjudging the necessity of beacons.
What I find just totally bewildering is when experienced players come on to a 'Rookie Friendly' server and then get angry at a comm who is trying to learn how to play. How can that possibly be a constructive approach?
Because you have to learn the game first. ~50hrs experience to know how everything works, learn the maps; then check the UI and everything in explore mode...
At least that's reasonable, it's how I did it.
When I see a greenie going comm, I explain calmly how this is not a good idea and give him some tips how to gain experience first. Then I either start an eject vote or, more oftenly, they leave the chair by themselves.
If someone is new to comming, but not a rookie anymore, I'm usually the field comm.
I didn't comm until my 300 hr. and I started with garden comm on aliens to get a handle of the interface. no other fps can have a single well intentioned player ruin the experience for 20 quite the same way as a greenie hopping into the seat and dropping 2 whips.
Comm is just horrible game design. Good comms are basically all the same (med/ammo dispensaries) and bad comms ruin the game for everyone else. The strategic part of ns2 is so shallow that there is no real good reason it should stay in the game in its current state.
I usually command, I know my stuff but recently I haven't played a lot because of a project of mine, which takes too much time. Commanding is a tiresome role, that takes a lot of concentration, despite that I love to issue orders to the minions. Role playing as a leader is great fun too ^^.
"Get your *plots* in North Tunnel!" the guys, who were in that game will know :P
Why you don't see many experienced coms is because of the fatigue and the low numbers. I'll com even a newbwie team. However, if I've taken the role the entire day, then I'll be less likely to sit on my fat *plot* in the chair for the next two days. I want to pew pew and nom nom too! I wanna be a tough space pony!
Oh and those haters that think that they are playing in ENSL ( the pub version :P ) are annoying but if you show authority, they'll shut up. This reminds me of a bug I had in Tram, my arcs went derp on me. Yeah a weird bug, which caused a hater to start screaming like a baby. Let's just say, he ate a banana and his hole didn't open after that.
I can't believe there's so many people that finds Kharaa commanding, "boring" or they feel like they don't have to do anything while sitting in the chair. If that would be the case, we could just turn this game back into NS1 and let the gorges build the structures.
As an alien commander you should be doing exactly that, commanding. Communicate with your team (Especially in pub matches where you as the commander is pretty much the only one who can make the entire team do something together), use drifters to scout and locate possible sneak attacks, spread infestation so you can harass incoming marines with your commander skills, build structures to some key locations, use the structure abilities to help your team mates, echo things around the map. Holy crap, suddenly I have so many things to do instead of just sitting in the chair and watching the RTS view (which by the way is an advantage alone for a commander who's constantly scouting and staying awake.)
Yes, there's a lot of games where none of that can happen when you're getting stomped by a stack team or your team just doesn't listen. Still, I enjoy commanding on both sides, it's an important role and everyone should give it a try at some point.
I com plenty of pub games, and rarely get blamed for anything. I think as long as you actually try to win, and know how to com well, no one will really blame you.
This is also granted I usually only pub with my friends who are comp players, and we usually win, but the games where we lose I don't really get blamed.
The only time I stream my own gameplay is normally when I'm pub comming, and I always encourage questions (as per my stream title). But hardly anyone watches
People only want me for my scrim/pcw casts! I feel so used ;_;
As far as being blamed, though. I'm a pretty vocal commander, giving orders to people (by name), calling things out, etc., so I never get blamed for losses--but honestly, I always apologize to my team after we lose. I subscribe to the European football/hockey goalkeeper ideology: even if my players might not blame me, I'm fine with shouldering the blame of a loss.
They don't have to be good as long as they allow the game to proceed (drop RTs, research upgrades, etc). It would be a bit of work, but would pay much more in dividends of less frustrating public matches.
What I find just totally bewildering is when experienced players come on to a 'Rookie Friendly' server and then get angry at a comm who is trying to learn how to play. How can that possibly be a constructive approach?
Because you have to learn the game first. ~50hrs experience to know how everything works, learn the maps; then check the UI and everything in explore mode...
At least that's reasonable, it's how I did it.
That's fair enough. If the comm has literally no idea what they are doing then they should be told so and get out, or be ejected.
But atm I think the skill level threshold at which aspiring comms get shouted down is a few notches too high...
This has never been an issue before (and at this time it still isn't really) but as hive ranking get more integrated into NS2, ranks and such being added to the scoreboard or whatever will become of it, the complete lack of progression when commanding will only further disencourage players from commanding. Even the game communicates that commanding is bad!
This needs to be solved somehow even though it won't fix any of the problems already mentioned. Preferably in some way more clever than giving score for performing actions as a commander, that would never work. The Hive stats counting the commanded time and adding a graph for time commanded/on the field time (like alien/marine time) would be a good, encouraging start.
While I'm talking about stats, it would be quite handy if it also took the difference of the average of the teams "skill" into account when awarding the final score for the round, to not encourage stacking/disencourage trying to lead the weaker team. Doing relatively well against a stacked team should award a good chunk of score/"skill", despite losing. Maybe even more than the winning team!
Edit: I must add, because I know someone will point this out if I don't, that I know that you, yes you who were just about to tell me I'm wrong because you personally don't care about stats on any conscious or unconscious level, so it doesn't make any difference to you. Your mind is much too strong, I can see that, of course. But I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about players in general. Players other than you and me, who are not precious snowflakes like us, I think you can see how they wouldn't be able to resist the powers of such mind control. :P
While I'm talking about stats, it would be quite handy if it also took the difference of the average of the teams "skill" into account when awarding the final score for the round, to not encourage stacking/disencourage trying to lead the weaker team. Doing relatively well against a stacked team should award a good chunk of score/"skill", despite losing. Maybe even more than the winning team!
That is a must have! As long as you get better "skill" by pub stomping as by playing against even teams, the whole skill ranking is worthless.
I can't believe there's so many people that finds Kharaa commanding, "boring" or they feel like they don't have to do anything while sitting in the chair. If that would be the case, we could just turn this game back into NS1 and let the gorges build the structures.
As an alien commander you should be doing exactly that, commanding. Communicate with your team (Especially in pub matches where you as the commander is pretty much the only one who can make the entire team do something together), use drifters to scout and locate possible sneak attacks, spread infestation so you can harass incoming marines with your commander skills, build structures to some key locations, use the structure abilities to help your team mates, echo things around the map. Holy crap, suddenly I have so many things to do instead of just sitting in the chair and watching the RTS view (which by the way is an advantage alone for a commander who's constantly scouting and staying awake.)
Yes, there's a lot of games where none of that can happen when you're getting stomped by a stack team or your team just doesn't listen. Still, I enjoy commanding on both sides, it's an important role and everyone should give it a try at some point.
Hahaha. Yeah, you might be right with that, but I can't be arsed.
What I do, is when I can't get any more RT's and I'm saving for a +35 res upgrade, I simply jump out of hive and start playing. Often I can Skulk for an entire minute and start getting my own personal res before I need to jump into hive again. Having +1 player even for a minute now THAT is pretty awesome.
I have trouble staying in marine chair too, which is worse because I actually might need to drop meds. But gotta build them stuff in main, gotta repair dat phase, gotta save that phase, gotta gottagotta...! :P
And what if UWE included ranking for commander ? Just as "top skill" and "top score", there will be "top commander".
I think it's quite enough to motivate some players. Moreover, the ones who are checking stats sometimes get used to some nicknames and will trust them more in public games (if no fake nicking of course).
The only times i went commander, we raped the ennemy team (even if the skills of the field players were more or less equal). It's kinda impressive to see the impact a medpacking commander has on a game.
One of the main thing that makes the commander boring and annoying, is the fact that you can jump on "building under attack" using spacebar while a marine asks for a medpack. The priority should always make the comm's view go on a marine. Otherwise, if the commander isn't experienced enough, he will not understand that it's more important to keep a marine alive than looking at an extractor die slowly.
Imo, priorities should look like this :
- Bile bomb attacking in base
- Power node in base attacked
- Marine asking for med
- Marine asking for ammo
- PG attacked
- RT attacked
I think we even should be notified when an extractor is attacked only with the map signal, colouring the extractor in red.
Making in game voice priorities ? (just an idea there) When the comm talks, it cuts down the microphone of the other players ? I know there might be some commander abusing it but eh, we still can eject him.
They don't have to be good as long as they allow the game to proceed (drop RTs, research upgrades, etc). It would be a bit of work, but would pay much more in dividends of less frustrating public matches.
Comm bots can work if we could get a request building wheel, request upgrade wheel, etc.
Not unless they have those things however.
Just no. RTS / FPS. it means strategy, means choices. Not algorithm.
What about interface? Key bindings for non QWERTY keyboards ?
Many bugs here and there (recycling and voice chat).
Things like that.
I guess I should have clarified that I meant comm-bots when no one else wants to comm, rather than to replace the comm.
Also, the 'strategic' component of NS2 is pretty bare compared to most RTS games. There are far fewer choices and NS2 lacks the strong counters common to nearly every RTS. NS2 is really like 75% FPS and 25% RTS as it currently stands.
It's not too bad. The best thing for new comms to do is to let the team know. The older players can offer suggestions.
Where you see people get mad is where the com fails to communicate and doesn't give any directions.
A lot of times I com with no mic and my husband will relay directions as needed, but I tell the team in the beginning "get RTs and harass." It is a generic direction but if I need to get a 2nd tech point I give them directions at that time.
I rather like commanding, in fact I'd like to do more in order to get better at it. Unfortunately for me the problem is that the game keeps crashing so I don't bother because I don't want to leave a team w/out a Komm.
Comments
because the only servers available are 'rookie only'
They don't have to be good as long as they allow the game to proceed (drop RTs, research upgrades, etc). It would be a bit of work, but would pay much more in dividends of less frustrating public matches.
no chance
Just no.
The thing being that Khamm is flat out boring, used to be half decent when you could be a lifeform and khamm at the same time. As it stands it's something I could do while forking food down my mouth.
Comming the marines is just frustrating, they either don't listen or Master Shooter Sergeant Chief John with a fantastic k/d of 0.3 will be telling me what I'm doing wrong and that exos will surely cure what ails our team!
So when it comes down to it. I'll be Khamm when I want to relax, Comm only if I got at least one friend in the game so I know someone competent is on my team. Skill is one thing, but some people seem to be chucking some form of music down their ears. How else can they be asking if we have no comm despite telling them "hopping out of the chair to assist in area X".
Sadly this means people who know how to play the game won't be commanding as they rather play the "fun parts". So in general a beginner comm or some highly rage induced comm is what I get.
Even on rookie servers a small amount of knowledge is expected. Like at least know what different structures do, and what the names are, what a cyst is etc. At least show that you've at least played a few games and messed around with bots/sandbox. I can understand frustration on those servers if a commander is THAT far behind the curve.
This is also granted I usually only pub with my friends who are comp players, and we usually win, but the games where we lose I don't really get blamed.
Not unless they have those things however.
I don't mind being comm, although not so much alien side the last few patches, but I'm the guy that usually only takes the chair when nobody else wants it rather than hops in at round start.
I get as much commanding as I want most of the time.
Enjoy
Because you have to learn the game first. ~50hrs experience to know how everything works, learn the maps; then check the UI and everything in explore mode...
At least that's reasonable, it's how I did it.
When I see a greenie going comm, I explain calmly how this is not a good idea and give him some tips how to gain experience first. Then I either start an eject vote or, more oftenly, they leave the chair by themselves.
If someone is new to comming, but not a rookie anymore, I'm usually the field comm.
I have the same experience. I've actually commed games where I've not been blamed for losses that I thought were my fault. like overseeing and reslocking. or misjudging the necessity of beacons.
I didn't comm until my 300 hr. and I started with garden comm on aliens to get a handle of the interface. no other fps can have a single well intentioned player ruin the experience for 20 quite the same way as a greenie hopping into the seat and dropping 2 whips.
I usually command, I know my stuff but recently I haven't played a lot because of a project of mine, which takes too much time. Commanding is a tiresome role, that takes a lot of concentration, despite that I love to issue orders to the minions. Role playing as a leader is great fun too ^^.
"Get your *plots* in North Tunnel!" the guys, who were in that game will know :P
Why you don't see many experienced coms is because of the fatigue and the low numbers. I'll com even a newbwie team. However, if I've taken the role the entire day, then I'll be less likely to sit on my fat *plot* in the chair for the next two days. I want to pew pew and nom nom too! I wanna be a tough space pony!
Oh and those haters that think that they are playing in ENSL ( the pub version :P ) are annoying but if you show authority, they'll shut up. This reminds me of a bug I had in Tram, my arcs went derp on me. Yeah a weird bug, which caused a hater to start screaming like a baby. Let's just say, he ate a banana and his hole didn't open after that.
As an alien commander you should be doing exactly that, commanding. Communicate with your team (Especially in pub matches where you as the commander is pretty much the only one who can make the entire team do something together), use drifters to scout and locate possible sneak attacks, spread infestation so you can harass incoming marines with your commander skills, build structures to some key locations, use the structure abilities to help your team mates, echo things around the map. Holy crap, suddenly I have so many things to do instead of just sitting in the chair and watching the RTS view (which by the way is an advantage alone for a commander who's constantly scouting and staying awake.)
Yes, there's a lot of games where none of that can happen when you're getting stomped by a stack team or your team just doesn't listen. Still, I enjoy commanding on both sides, it's an important role and everyone should give it a try at some point.
So you aren't really playing a pub game.
People only want me for my scrim/pcw casts! I feel so used ;_;
As far as being blamed, though. I'm a pretty vocal commander, giving orders to people (by name), calling things out, etc., so I never get blamed for losses--but honestly, I always apologize to my team after we lose. I subscribe to the European football/hockey goalkeeper ideology: even if my players might not blame me, I'm fine with shouldering the blame of a loss.
Just no. RTS / FPS. it means strategy, means choices. Not algorithm.
What about interface? Key bindings for non QWERTY keyboards ?
Many bugs here and there (recycling and voice chat).
Things like that.
That's fair enough. If the comm has literally no idea what they are doing then they should be told so and get out, or be ejected.
But atm I think the skill level threshold at which aspiring comms get shouted down is a few notches too high...
This has never been an issue before (and at this time it still isn't really) but as hive ranking get more integrated into NS2, ranks and such being added to the scoreboard or whatever will become of it, the complete lack of progression when commanding will only further disencourage players from commanding. Even the game communicates that commanding is bad!
This needs to be solved somehow even though it won't fix any of the problems already mentioned. Preferably in some way more clever than giving score for performing actions as a commander, that would never work. The Hive stats counting the commanded time and adding a graph for time commanded/on the field time (like alien/marine time) would be a good, encouraging start.
While I'm talking about stats, it would be quite handy if it also took the difference of the average of the teams "skill" into account when awarding the final score for the round, to not encourage stacking/disencourage trying to lead the weaker team. Doing relatively well against a stacked team should award a good chunk of score/"skill", despite losing. Maybe even more than the winning team!
Edit: I must add, because I know someone will point this out if I don't, that I know that you, yes you who were just about to tell me I'm wrong because you personally don't care about stats on any conscious or unconscious level, so it doesn't make any difference to you. Your mind is much too strong, I can see that, of course. But I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about players in general. Players other than you and me, who are not precious snowflakes like us, I think you can see how they wouldn't be able to resist the powers of such mind control. :P
That is a must have! As long as you get better "skill" by pub stomping as by playing against even teams, the whole skill ranking is worthless.
Hahaha.
What I do, is when I can't get any more RT's and I'm saving for a +35 res upgrade, I simply jump out of hive and start playing.
I have trouble staying in marine chair too, which is worse because I actually might need to drop meds. But gotta build them stuff in main, gotta repair dat phase, gotta save that phase, gotta gottagotta...! :P
I think it's quite enough to motivate some players. Moreover, the ones who are checking stats sometimes get used to some nicknames and will trust them more in public games (if no fake nicking of course).
The only times i went commander, we raped the ennemy team (even if the skills of the field players were more or less equal). It's kinda impressive to see the impact a medpacking commander has on a game.
One of the main thing that makes the commander boring and annoying, is the fact that you can jump on "building under attack" using spacebar while a marine asks for a medpack. The priority should always make the comm's view go on a marine. Otherwise, if the commander isn't experienced enough, he will not understand that it's more important to keep a marine alive than looking at an extractor die slowly.
Imo, priorities should look like this :
- Bile bomb attacking in base
- Power node in base attacked
- Marine asking for med
- Marine asking for ammo
- PG attacked
- RT attacked
I think we even should be notified when an extractor is attacked only with the map signal, colouring the extractor in red.
Making in game voice priorities ? (just an idea there) When the comm talks, it cuts down the microphone of the other players ? I know there might be some commander abusing it but eh, we still can eject him.
Also, the 'strategic' component of NS2 is pretty bare compared to most RTS games. There are far fewer choices and NS2 lacks the strong counters common to nearly every RTS. NS2 is really like 75% FPS and 25% RTS as it currently stands.
Where you see people get mad is where the com fails to communicate and doesn't give any directions.
A lot of times I com with no mic and my husband will relay directions as needed, but I tell the team in the beginning "get RTs and harass." It is a generic direction but if I need to get a 2nd tech point I give them directions at that time.