Why don't people save the power nodes for blackout?

LingosLingos Join Date: 2012-12-31 Member: 176896Members
Why kill it right away? that 5 seconds or so of blackout is an almsot insta-win for aliens depending on the situation.

dmg it till it needs 1 more hit to kill, and when the marines come in, kill it then attk.
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Comments

  • shriikeshriike Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184461Members
    So it takes longer for the marines to repair it back.
  • ChizzlerChizzler Join Date: 2013-01-04 Member: 177532Members
    In competitive matches, there are more important things those lifeforms could be doing than munching on power (which is why you almost never see power going down other than (sometimes) when rushing the marines base.

    although the same could be said for pubs, we've all seen the lack of coordination, teamwork and tactics (no, not the team) and often the power does get nibbled on. Getting your team to not chew it to destruction is quite a challenge and players assume they should be killing the nodes. I've personally left a power on a few bites and utilized the darkness when marines come in to great effect, but it does come with downsides;

    Someone needs to be there to watch for marines, which is fine if you know they're coming, but it's often not the case.

    It's only really useful in certain locations (TP's) when big pushes are occuring, so it's really situational.

    If no-one is monitoring the area, marines can sneak in and build up a pg and/or weld up the power

    The sound muffles the sound of incoming marines (until it stops after 20-30 seconds)


    Ultimately, it's something i'd like to see more of, but if you've got a team that actually are utilizing this tactic, they're working together well enough that they should be focusing on other objectives.
  • LingosLingos Join Date: 2012-12-31 Member: 176896Members
    edited August 2013
    i don't think it takes much coordination, every lifeform, except onos, has some sort of range attk to quickly take it out when it is on about 10-20 health. kind of a no brainer.

    Sure it is kind of campy but i always manage to move on to the next room, harass fallback and wait for the marines to enter the room, turn off the lights and have a far greater chance of winning a fight.
  • ChizzlerChizzler Join Date: 2013-01-04 Member: 177532Members
    edited August 2013
    On paper, your right...after all it takes 1 alien to bite it down to near 0 and 1 to go and chew the last bite at the right time... but actually getting teammates to leave a power node low is not simple. First, you often have 2-3 skulks biting the power, and they all need to stop! then anyone else may enter the room, hear the sound it's emitting and think, Ooo, 5 free points! (or that they're slowing/stopping marines).

    All it takes is one alien to mess it up basically. I do a lot of Commanding and I can tell you that (in pubs) at least 50% of players will frequently ignore you or not understand you (language barrier). Telling them not to attack the object with flashing lights and sound emitting seems crazy to them...and by the time you've explained why, it's too late.


    to Answer the topic question;
    "Why don't people save the power nodes for blackouts?"

    * Unintuitive - it practically screams "bite me" when it's nearly destroyed
    * Lack of player knowledge - Do they know the emergency lighting is on a cooldown? Do they know how useful it may be?
    * Very Situational - only particularly beneficial during big pushes
    * Potentially Unnecessary - A good team won't be wasting time chewing power nodes
    * It only takes one - one lifeform (or whip/hydra/babbler) takes out the power and the opportunity is gone
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members
    9 out of 10 times the question is ...Why do people bother with the power?
  • YMICrazyYMICrazy Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 165986Members
    Lingos wrote: »
    Why kill it right away? that 5 seconds or so of blackout is an almsot insta-win for aliens depending on the situation.

    dmg it till it needs 1 more hit to kill, and when the marines come in, kill it then attk.

    Does blackout mean anything if people pump up the gamma?
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Chizzler wrote: »
    On paper, your right...after all it takes 1 alien to bite it down to near 0 and 1 to go and chew the last bite at the right time... but actually getting teammates to leave a power node low is not simple. First, you often have 2-3 skulks biting the power, and they all need to stop! then anyone else may enter the room, hear the sound it's emitting and think, Ooo, 5 free points! (or that they're slowing/stopping marines).

    Not to mention that a power node in an infested room will slowly get chipped away - irrespective of what your cunning plan was initially.
  • ChizzlerChizzler Join Date: 2013-01-04 Member: 177532Members
    Mouse wrote: »
    Chizzler wrote: »
    On paper, your right...after all it takes 1 alien to bite it down to near 0 and 1 to go and chew the last bite at the right time... but actually getting teammates to leave a power node low is not simple. First, you often have 2-3 skulks biting the power, and they all need to stop! then anyone else may enter the room, hear the sound it's emitting and think, Ooo, 5 free points! (or that they're slowing/stopping marines).

    Not to mention that a power node in an infested room will slowly get chipped away - irrespective of what your cunning plan was initially.

    I was going to mention this, but I don't think infestation will actually destroy the power, just chip away it's armour, not an issue when you're considering the final bite or 2
  • aeroripperaeroripper Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    Chizzler wrote: »
    * Unintuitive - it practically screams "bite me" when it's nearly destroyed
    * Lack of player knowledge - Do they know the emergency lighting is on a cooldown? Do they know how useful it may be?
    * Very Situational - only particularly beneficial during big pushes
    * Potentially Unnecessary - A good team won't be wasting time chewing power nodes
    * It only takes one - one lifeform (or whip/hydra/babbler) takes out the power and the opportunity is gone

    ^ This. It's pretty situational when to take out power nodes. For base rushes it can be useful after hitting the obs, otherwise it really depends. I usually take them out in the tech point rooms when setting up a new hive or an existing one.
  • MrPinkMrPink Join Date: 2002-05-28 Member: 678Members
    I've always thought this was a intuitive game quirk that should really be fixed. Same with building a power node to 99%.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Why don't marines build the power to 99% before building phasegate?
  • FrustrationFrustration Join Date: 2013-01-19 Member: 180628Members
    It´s literally that - it takes longer for them to rebuild it.Although this tactic is a remnant of the pre-250 era where marines did not have welders all the time so it took quite a time to get that thing up and usually you are alone when doing this.

    It´s also better to chomp on the power because when they have to repair it, they also have to face a wall(or at least half of it, depending on your positioning skills)

    The question is whether the longer time it takes for them to rebuild power justified for the constant flow of res from the RT during that time.I personally just chomp on RTs myself since I´ve heard statements you have to restrict their res flow and harass them.I really don´t know how much impact I´m actually doing.For me, it seems they can literally just rebuild it in seconds.
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    30 points.

    /thread
  • tarquinbbtarquinbb Join Date: 2012-11-03 Member: 166314Members
    the simple answer is the a lot of pub players don't know and don't care... they just want to bite random stuff.

    you get those marine players who are equally useless though, like the ones who stick in a 2-3 strong noob squad and get fended off by 1 gorge for the entire game.
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold
    Biting the power to 1% can be very effective at key locations like East Junction, System or Dome on Veil or when you are preparing for an ambush and have to wait for other skulks anyway.



  • current1ycurrent1y Join Date: 2003-12-08 Member: 24150Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    Lingos wrote: »
    Why kill it right away? that 5 seconds or so of blackout is an almsot insta-win for aliens depending on the situation.

    dmg it till it needs 1 more hit to kill, and when the marines come in, kill it then attk.

    This takes a level of foresight most people just aren't capable of.
  • NeokenNeoken Bruges, Belgium Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27447Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
    Not to mention it takes timing as well. ^^
  • DaveodethDaveodeth Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172717Members
    More importantly some git just neeeeeeds those 15 points
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    This is basically the same mentality of end game killing spree as well, imaginative people just fool around not shooting stuff. While most just ratatata/biteybitebite as a bunch of rabid crazies cause gottah catch those point, when their targets cannot do anything back, wuss mentality++ :>

    We need more imagination and humour, instead of these killdroids :P
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Daveodeth wrote: »
    More importantly some git just neeeeeeds those 15 points

    it's even worse because it's actually 30 points (+15 on screen, +30 on scoreboard!)
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    Roobubba wrote: »
    Daveodeth wrote: »
    More importantly some git just neeeeeeds those 15 points

    it's even worse because it's actually 30 points (+15 on screen, +30 on scoreboard!)

    Gotta remember that :D
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members
    Unless a room holds a tactical value I wouldn't bother with the power node.

    -Rooms I'd consider of tactical value-
    Tech point
    Adjacent to existing hive
    Double res
    Anywhere they have already built a PG

    -rooms I'd NOT consider of tactical value-
    Random res point
    Powernodes within "rine territory"

    In general restricting the opponents res is the most influential part one can have in a game... Powernodes are free! Don't bite power before resnodes!

    When attacking the marine base set goals that are achievable and have a purpose.

    Situation #1. Rine main base (ip/pg/obs...)

    Potential goals: force beacon, cause havok, end game...

    When you go attacking the rine base ask yourself some questions.

    Do we have enough people to kill the power before a becon gets off?
    If we can get the power off do we have enough to keep it off?
    Is there a more valuable target?
    Do they have densely packed structures?

    Many times power goes down and you hear someone yell "powers out in there main kill them'" but no one is in position to respond and 2 gorges died on the power for no real reward. Now imagine if those gorges had simply spammed bile all over maybe killed 2 ip 1 AA and an arms lab... That's 100+ res! Now say they get the power down and 2 decent fades are near by... Different story cause it may be GG

    My point is the powernode are powerful BUT only if it coincides with your goal and is maintainable....







    Turtle situation (or any time rine are on 1 chair) i say this in every thread that it can remotely apply.., power does not end games! A dead CC end games! Attacking the CC in a turtle is the only thing worth dieing for... If your entire team dies killing power you all died for a free structure. If your entire team dies killing the CC, you win!

    The CC is also a BIG target physically! This means you don't have your entire team crammed on a powernode where every GL hits all of you and no bullet misses at least one of you.
    It also works as a big shield run around it while attacking there entire team can't focuse fire...
    Ever try to get 3+onos on a powernode? There isn't room, but 12 onos can all hit the chair together...


    Remember killing the power only wins games if the aliens who don't die while killing the power can kill all the marines that are in that room.




  • Know painKnow pain Join Date: 2012-09-04 Member: 157674Members
    Why don’t players save the power nodes for black out?

    Reason, nubs caring only about points.
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    edited August 2013
    I don't really buy the whole instawin thing from killing power. The moment you kill power marines know EXACTLY where you are. They still have flashlights to track you. Besides, I need the points. They make me feel good inside.

    Building power to 90% doesn't really work. Sure it's fun, but 90% of the times (hat statistic) someone just finishes the 10% and goes "porblem, commando?".
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold
    I don't really buy the whole instawin thing from killing power. The moment you kill power marines know EXACTLY where you are. They still have flashlights to track you. Besides, I need the points. They make me feel good inside.

    Building power to 90% doesn't really work. Sure it's fun, but 90% of the times (hat statistic) someone just finishes the 10% and goes "porblem, commando?".

    Not sure if Sarcasm.

    You can kill the power with parasite and yeah sure, they can track with their flash light, but first they need to find you in the darkness.
  • CrushaKCrushaK Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167195Members, NS2 Playtester
    The point reward for Power Nodes should be dynamically determined by how many structures in the room are going to be unpowered by its destruction. Destroying a node in an empty room = 0 points. (Unless you want to introduce a minimum like 3 points for taking the time to bite it).
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    Bicsum wrote: »
    I don't really buy the whole instawin thing from killing power. The moment you kill power marines know EXACTLY where you are. They still have flashlights to track you. Besides, I need the points. They make me feel good inside.

    Building power to 90% doesn't really work. Sure it's fun, but 90% of the times (hat statistic) someone just finishes the 10% and goes "porblem, commando?".

    Not sure if Sarcasm.

    You can kill the power with parasite and yeah sure, they can track with their flash light, but first they need to find you in the darkness.

    Yeah I've never thought about finishing it off with a parasite.

    Still. A tardy Skulk is just gonna come into the room where your ambush is and finish off the power and "porblem, sulk?" in your bullet riddled face.
  • RicezRicez Join Date: 2013-04-13 Member: 184784Members
    It's the same reason that most people don't even use the minimap.
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    it's only really a good use of your time if there is nothing better to chew on. I'll kill power if there's risk of phase going up in cross for example. but really, chewing on res really does more damage. also, scans really nullify a lot of the darkness.
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members
    It's a matter of tactics and strategy. When needed (like a coordinated attack or something), they will do it. When not urgent and something else is more important, the more important thing should be done first (i hope u understood that, since I'm not sure if I explained very clearly)
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