Cocurrent players are too few

MisterYoonMisterYoon Join Date: 2012-08-18 Member: 155747Members

It's saturday on Europe, and there are only 700 people playing cocurrently.

While Chivalry has 8k cocurrent players on it.
Of course Chivalry is on 75% sale, but anyway they are very good at maintaining players.

Natural Selection 2 has more interesting gameplay, and better graphic?
But what should be a problem? NS2 is keep losing players while games like Chivalry keeps having at least x3 more players than NS2.

I even heard that optimization works really good recently.

It's still far from dead, but i hope i could play ns2 even next year and years after that.
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Comments

  • rantologyrantology Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    NS2 had 7k+ players (according to front page counter) when it was on the steam sale a few weeks ago. Speaking of which, people are probably checking out all the new games they've been able to buy right now on the sale.

    If NS2 goes onto the steam sale / flash sale I'm sure player counts will spike again just like the last 2 times it was on sale.
  • TheriusTherius Join Date: 2009-03-06 Member: 66642Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    rantology wrote: »
    NS2 had 7k+ players (according to front page counter) when it was on the steam sale a few weeks ago. Speaking of which, people are probably checking out all the new games they've been able to buy right now on the sale.

    I'm fairly sure Steam stats are more reliable than the NS2 front page one, and they showed 3000 players tops.
  • soccerguy243soccerguy243 Join Date: 2012-12-22 Member: 175920Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Therius wrote: »
    rantology wrote: »
    NS2 had 7k+ players (according to front page counter) when it was on the steam sale a few weeks ago. Speaking of which, people are probably checking out all the new games they've been able to buy right now on the sale.

    I'm fairly sure Steam stats are more reliable than the NS2 front page one, and they showed 3000 players tops.

    3000 tops really?
    http://steamcharts.com/app/4920
  • DestherDesther Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165195Members
    Therius wrote: »
    rantology wrote: »
    NS2 had 7k+ players (according to front page counter) when it was on the steam sale a few weeks ago. Speaking of which, people are probably checking out all the new games they've been able to buy right now on the sale.

    I'm fairly sure Steam stats are more reliable than the NS2 front page one, and they showed 3000 players tops.

    3000 tops really?
    http://steamcharts.com/app/4920
    Last 30 Days Peak Players 2924

    Yeah..
  • rantologyrantology Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    edited July 2013
    Peak VS average is what it looks like. So the front page stats were probably correct in that there were 6-7k players playing, while the steam charts take an average for what, full 24hr periods?

    (chivalry has always had more players than NS2 on average though, regarding OP)
  • G1RG1R Join Date: 2012-08-23 Member: 156275Members
    Well, NS2 is kinda hard to get in. Esp. for noobs its very frustrating ... that combined with the veeery unique gameplay = def. not attracting tons of players.
  • DestherDesther Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165195Members
    I think some of the things holding ns2 back are inherent to the design. Losing sucks and playing with any higher lifeform or weapon gives you one chance to not die - this is something that you have to learn and it's hard.
    NS2's area is competitive twitch shooter so good performance is essential and even with the latest speedups, the game still runs badly on the CPU side. Also, the market share for this type of game is probably a lot smaller than 10 years ago. Everyone is playing F2P and dota clones.

    Chivalry uses a classic gameplay hook in persistent unlocks to keep you playing for the promise of new toys. I think ns could benefit from unlockable and/or microtransaction accessories (hats) but obviously there is a lot of work to make it happen.
  • TheriusTherius Join Date: 2009-03-06 Member: 66642Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    rantology wrote: »
    Peak VS average is what it looks like. So the front page stats were probably correct in that there were 6-7k players playing, while the steam charts take an average for what, full 24hr periods?

    What? No. Steam says the peak number of concurrent players was 3000 in the last 30 days, while the average is 777. The NS2 front page always shows more players playing than the Steam equivalent (on the NS2 community page), and I trust steam more.

  • rantologyrantology Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    edited July 2013
    Therius wrote: »
    rantology wrote: »
    Peak VS average is what it looks like. So the front page stats were probably correct in that there were 6-7k players playing, while the steam charts take an average for what, full 24hr periods?

    What? No. Steam says the peak number of concurrent players was 3000 in the last 30 days, while the average is 777. The NS2 front page always shows more players playing than the Steam equivalent (on the NS2 community page), and I trust steam more.

    Oh yes, you are correct sorry.

    Not sure why the front page is so different that the steam graphs, I always assumed they use Sponitor for that.. ?
  • carnage-wp-carnage-wp- Join Date: 2012-10-13 Member: 162250Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Bottom line is the game is dropping off because there is no hype around it. No reason to play competitively (lack of teams/tournaments/leagues) and no reason to play it casually (getting stomped in pubs). Usually I try to be optimistic but I've seen all the sales and big events, I've seen the peak of what NS2 was, and now we can't even hold 650 players on a Saturday during the summer.
  • DjiloreiannDjiloreiann Join Date: 2013-07-04 Member: 185902Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Any suggestions of what can be done aside form steam sales to bring people in and drive interest back up?
    I can't believe the 2# top played on steam is currently [Football Manager 2013] with ~34,977 people playing
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Members
    edited July 2013
    Maybe this game needs a tutorial that isnt shit, a youtube video or a bunch of unhelpful UI popups? Not to mention that the game is very eccentric and the odd ass combat (what with the jump spamming, super fast and maneuverable enemies and poor collision) takes a lot of getting used to before it even approaches being fun in its own right.
  • Mattk50Mattk50 Join Date: 2013-02-04 Member: 182824Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Any suggestions of what can be done aside form steam sales to bring people in and drive interest back up?
    I can't believe the 2# top played on steam is currently [Football Manager 2013] with ~34,977 people playing

    Well, not completely remaking the game every other while is probably a very good idea. A lot of people probably left after having their previous practice all nullified and ns2 being remade after the balance mod. The extra new people coming in from the sales offset it but it's going to be more damaging in the long term.
  • ZaliZali Join Date: 2013-06-23 Member: 185668Members
    Mattk50 wrote: »
    Any suggestions of what can be done aside form steam sales to bring people in and drive interest back up?
    I can't believe the 2# top played on steam is currently [Football Manager 2013] with ~34,977 people playing

    Well, not completely remaking the game every other while is probably a very good idea. A lot of people probably left after having their previous practice all nullified and ns2 being remade after the balance mod. The extra new people coming in from the sales offset it but it's going to be more damaging in the long term.

    This. Reverting build 250 and it's ridiculous stalemate games would go a long way to improving pub play.
  • DaveodethDaveodeth Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172717Members
    Considering how few were playing pre 250 I don't get that one.
  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    What nonsense, as if 250 had anything to do with it. NS 2's concurrent playerbase was in decay before that and it's still in decay after. I'd argue the overall gameplay is better, or at least on the proper path but unfortunately it did very little to resolve the major issues this game has in terms of new player accessibility. I have a lot of friends who just gave up after playing one round of aliens, that says enough.

    Chivalry is an easy game by comparison, which is not to say it has no depth, but its mechanics are very straight-forward and familiar. I honestly believe NS 2 could reach out to a much bigger audience but for that to happen they should have probably focussed a lot more on new player accessibility and less on trying to redo things that worked fine in NS 1. Additionally, of course, one must acknowledge that gamemodes like combat and siege, despite not being 'cool', were very popular in NS1 and a good learning school. It's something like that that NS 2 could probably use too. (Yes there is a combat mod but I doubt many new players actually roll into it, things could have been very different if it was included from the start or taken up and pushed as an official part of the game)
  • tarquinbbtarquinbb Join Date: 2012-11-03 Member: 166314Members
    edited July 2013
    saturday 4pm isn't 'peak time'... hell, you'd be lucky to find any decent tf2 servers at that time (i.e. servers with players who aren't entirely braindead and thus mind-numbingly boring to play with).

    you also have to consider that:

    a) it's a niche game for sure, very unforgiving with steep learning curve by design
    b) new team fortress 2 mega update (of which im a victim)
  • HowserHowser UK Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    So what we need to get more players is make combat, co-op, training mod with swords. Easy.
  • MisterNubsMisterNubs Join Date: 2012-03-01 Member: 147912Members
    Uwe would have to make an official combat mod that they update themselves.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited July 2013
    Frankly I don't know if there is a "solution." FPS/RTS is a niche genre, and thus NS2 was always going to be a niche game. I think it's done quite well considering - the best thing for them to do is accept that and make it thrive within its niche IMO.

    If you really want to see player numbers go up noticeably, the #1 way to do that is probably to introduce an official Combat mode. That's not what anybody wants to hear but it's probably the safest bet. A mod isn't good enough to draw in new players - they want to see a proper polished game mode with the full support of the devs.
  • RadmanRadman Join Date: 2013-04-05 Member: 184656Members
    I think ns2 works really well as just an fps, of you don't want to think about the rts elements.

    Tf2 just had a massive balance patch, and dota 2 just realeased/introduced a new hero. I wanna play ns2 but feel like I have to play those other games :S
  • nezznezz Join Date: 2012-12-11 Member: 174712Members
    edited July 2013
    that's just it, This game can be quite frustrating for beginner players. The last 2 weeks pubbing has been terrible experience for anyone with a little bit a skill due to the higher number of newer players playing. Most games ending in a 1-sided stomp.

    Uptodate tutorials would've helped a great deal. But newer players don't ask questions and don't really put in the effort to learn. Therefore leaving.

    As much as i don't like combat, it provides newer players with the ability to die and play with that fade, lerk, shotgun. time and time again. Learning it alot quicker then just insta-death in normal.
  • tarquinbbtarquinbb Join Date: 2012-11-03 Member: 166314Members
    edited July 2013
    imo the best idea to lure new/casual players would be to think about what you could add which bad players could use and allow them to be semi-useful.

    i'm thinking along the lines of a mountable sentry gun, a mountable alien static defense structure or vehicle, maybe a couple of in-base mountable utility/defense structures like a pillbox ;)

    ...that would be amazing imo. just stuff that is useless in high level/comp games, but fun to play in pub and more accessible to casual players.
  • deathshrouddeathshroud Join Date: 2010-04-10 Member: 71291Members
    i agree with this, saturday night and i cant find a single server in the uk with below 110 ping that were close to full
  • YMICrazyYMICrazy Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 165986Members
    Should go up a little with the 40% off sale through July 22. That and if they manage to get a daily or flash deal.
  • Tool8Tool8 Join Date: 2012-01-01 Member: 139405Members
    I think there should be an official combat mode. This would make it a lot easier for new players to learn the game.
  • DogbiteDogbite Join Date: 2004-03-14 Member: 27329Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited July 2013
    Why not integrate combat mod into the game and rename it "Training Mode" , that way it will emphasize that it's for practice before playing the regular game mode? Maybe new players will use it and then move on to play normal NS2?

    I'd also love to see Last Stand mod get put in as part of the game.....
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
    Not everyone is not playing because of the changes.
    I myself am currently not playing because ns2 is basicly a 'use headset/mic' game and due to operation I cant use a headset atm yet. (soon my precious ns2... soon).

    but yes.. mostly due to the reasons of niche game & long time to learn.. Surely
  • ezekelezekel Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173589Members, NS2 Map Tester
    edited July 2013
    Radman wrote: »
    I think ns2 works really well as just an fps, of you don't want to think about the rts elements.

    Tf2 just had a massive balance patch, and dota 2 just realeased/introduced a new hero. I wanna play ns2 but feel like I have to play those other games :S

    'balance patch' they have a rocket launcher that can 1 hit scouts, anyway all those guns are banned in actual matches so it's still garbage to begin with

    As for ns2, currently I think it's in the best state it has been in but I find myself more inactive not cause I'm playing something else but because I just don't have fun playing public anymore(and most of the servers keep hosting 20+ slots which I refuse to play/avoid), so if I get called for a pug or scrim then I'll gladly hop on for some great matches, the game itself is incredible but there's nothing really for me to do.. join a random server and get frustrated that a lot of people do not know what's going on? That's no fun.. teach them? tried that it's nearly impossible and there's just too many new players to teach.. not like any of them will listen to me
  • FrustrationFrustration Join Date: 2013-01-19 Member: 180628Members
    The only reason I play NS2 is BECAUSE it has no unlocks, newbie tactics, experience points.Everyone has an equal footing when they start.

    Just update the tutorial videos and implement some ranking system, so you dont get stuck with players, who have played NS2 since the universe began.

    But for the love of god, do not make it more newbie friendly.(in the most general terms)
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