I actually think the server switching method quite ingenious, though the implementation could be better (e.g. it selects the first populated server with an open slot rather than just sending you to the next in the line). However, this does lead to an interesting idea of joining a server group rather than a specific server. For example, rather than joining KKG1, you'd join the KKG Server Group and it would deposit you in one of their populated servers with an open slot.
I have tossed this idea around for our servers, but instead of and infinity loop of full servers, we would have a waiting room server where you would join to be directed to one of our normal servers.
In all it would be better to have logic to see if a server has spots before redirecting people indefently.
I actually think the server switching method quite ingenious, though the implementation could be better (e.g. it selects the first populated server with an open slot rather than just sending you to the next in the line).
Because we all love staring at the loading screen soooooo much!
i favorited all servers below 150 ping. if that crap happens, i take the heart away. problem solved.
That's actually a pretty good strategy. I've been hoping for a blacklist or "unfavorite" option giving servers 3 states which would be used as "unknown" "good" and "avoid" flags. Your idea does create a challenge in recognizing new servers, anything added to the list or with a ping that later improves over your limit will start off with the unfavorite status and it will be hard to separate the new from the bad.
Has the amazing mystery as to why the number of slots is an odd number and not even occurred... [..] using odd numbers is the only way to indicate to players that the last slot is for establishing connections only and is not playable.
In my server list:
a) Most servers with reserved slots have an even max number, not odd
b) Most servers with reserved slots reserve far more than just the last slot. Two and four reserved slots are common, and I think I've seen as many as eight? Not entirely sure, because I try to ignore those servers now.
I'd promote the development of a blacklist capability for an entirely unrelated reason. filtering out servers with offensive names.... you know of which im talking. niggles at me just to see it pop up in the server lost,
The redirection/group server population could be achieved very easily from a web page. It's a shame that there's no good way to support that directly from the game (ie clicking on any of the servers in that group takes you to a webpage which runs a script to determine the best server to join, then joins it).
There's so much that can be done this way from web browsers that isn't really exploited at the minute.
I have to be willing to spend 5 minutes find a server these days before I can get in a game. If the game weren't as fun it would have turned me away from it completely.
I just ignore KingKahuna, TacticalGamer for this reason. IbisGaming only kicks you if you join after 20 iirc, but doesnt kick you in game, so I have played this server a bit if I can get in.
The KingKahuna is the most annoying. If I wanted to join another server, I would. I don't need it sending to another full server in an endless loop (if they check to see if there was room BEFORE they sent you, well, that would be much better. As it stands, the developer for this redirect lacks vision).
Tactical I understand they want to sell slots. But getting kicked as the commander by someone who is new to the game, well, no thanks.
Other then those three servers, I have not seen this issue. There are plenty of servers to choose from, so just choose a different one (and I understand that servers and bandwidth are not free, so often server admins are just trying to reimburse rather then make money).
I just ignore KingKahuna, TacticalGamer for this reason. IbisGaming only kicks you if you join after 20 iirc, but doesnt kick you in game, so I have played this server a bit if I can get in.
The KingKahuna is the most annoying. If I wanted to join another server, I would. I don't need it sending to another full server in an endless loop (if they check to see if there was room BEFORE they sent you, well, that would be much better. As it stands, the developer for this redirect lacks vision).
Tactical I understand they want to sell slots. But getting kicked as the commander by someone who is new to the game, well, no thanks.
Other then those three servers, I have not seen this issue. There are plenty of servers to choose from, so just choose a different one (and I understand that servers and bandwidth are not free, so often server admins are just trying to reimburse rather then make money).
It kicks after 22 but note that lets say that at 20 3 people connect. The last person to get into the game even if they were in reality the 21st person will be kicked. (so have a fast computer).
Also you can get kicked in game if a reserved slot player or admin joins. For example if I join and the server is 22/23 someone will get kicked to make room. It is just that this is very rare as personally I will actually wait for a slot to open to minimize the kicks in the server and b/c I am watching the server traffic nearly 24/7 anyways lol.
What you see in NS2 server browser: Server A (13/16) <-- Regular server with 3 public slots available Server B (13/16 [2]) <-- Has 2 reserved slots, but 1 public slot still available Server C (14/16 [2]) <-- Has 2 reserved slots, but no public slots available
- If a player tries to join server B, it joins normally (since there is at least 1 public slot available).
- If a player tries to join server C, it will do a quick server request to verify the player has reserved slot access. If access is granted, the client will connect. Otherwise, it will pop-up a message indicating that a public slot is not available.
It would also be nice if the client could show in a different color, or even (optionally) completely hide servers which are full (to non-reserved players) due to reserved slots.
Choices: Once the number of open slots drops below the number of reserved slots (such as a 15th player joins server C), then the server has two choices:
1. Kick the most recently joined non-reserved player (if present), to drop the player
2. Let the player count stay at 15/16, not-kicking anyone.
Commentary: The problem with this is that the NS2 client needs to be built to allow this. It cannot be a mod as new players (who don't know anything about reserved slots) are the ones that will be hurt worst by the current system (of kicking after you join).
Oh sorry i missed where someone actually mentioned them. Well I can see why they do it, as someone previously mentioned about them trying to make some money back and stuff. I CBA to implement those mods, as when a new build comes out they break and its a ball ache removing the mod
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2013
A good admin should try to bring the best gameexperience to the players.
Wich uncludes:
- best possible performance (if an server cant handle 22 slots for example, he should lower the playercount)
- Kicking cheaters, griefers, idiots, etc (and not players that are too good for him)
- Dont break the own rules (i saw that very often)
But the goal of most admins seem to be:
- Filling a server @ all cost
- Taking players in endless redirect cycles to fill all the servers
- Kick/ban good players without any reason (if other players have 25-5 stats - kick, if the admins has 25-5 stats its ok)
btw. im sure we have empty servers soon filled with bots so you cant see in the serverbrowser what server has players or not.
Wasnt that one of the reasons NS1 died? hmm, nvm
Back to topic:
The only half working way atm for reserved slots is a password if the server is full.
The downside of this is that most players didnt use the password filter in the serverbrowser.
So the server disappear if its full.
Big thanks to @typodaemon for an elegant workaround.
Big thanks to @wyzcrak for stepping up and adopting typo's workaround on your servers. As much as I've complained about Tactical Gamer (and others) over this specific issue, I've also appreciated that you are at least aware of the issue, understand our concerns, and have at least considered some solutions. I'm glad that typo has devised and implemented a solution that you can accept and I'm glad that you've accepted it.
It's Super Effective!Join Date: 2012-08-28Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
I definitely have had these problems, I often discuss with the people I play with that they add a Server Black list (kind of a opposite to favorite) because there are many servers that simply provide a negative experience to deal with, and I would never rejoin them under normal circumstances, but that might hurt the community. Just last night I was teaching a friend of mine how to play the game, there was space on my team and he got kicked to an empty server, like really? Oh and the ones that boot players who have been connected for a long time over someone who joined later, even when there are still reserve slots available.
All that needs to be done is better server support to better inform the player of the server they are joining and better support for admins to target the players they want (assuming some server hosts want to generate income for slots)
Some of the filters we have now are doing a swell job, like I don't want to connect to servers with low performance or high pings, empty or full. Perhaps if there was native support for reserved slots, then that number wouldn't be hidden to the user.
Most people join servers that have space for them (+ their friends if any) and it just seems like false advertising when you join a 16/25, you know which ones they are ;p
this is really annoying especially if you dont play that often so you can't be bothered to remember which ones are full at which slots
needs official support PLeez
Oh and the ones that boot players who have been connected for a long time over someone who joined later, even when there are still reserve slots available.
Reserved slots aren't extra slots to play on top of the normal server population. The extra slots are there for someone to join so the server can know if they qualify for a reserved slot, then it trades out so the max population is the same.
Comments
I have tossed this idea around for our servers, but instead of and infinity loop of full servers, we would have a waiting room server where you would join to be directed to one of our normal servers.
In all it would be better to have logic to see if a server has spots before redirecting people indefently.
Because we all love staring at the loading screen soooooo much!
That's actually a pretty good strategy. I've been hoping for a blacklist or "unfavorite" option giving servers 3 states which would be used as "unknown" "good" and "avoid" flags. Your idea does create a challenge in recognizing new servers, anything added to the list or with a ping that later improves over your limit will start off with the unfavorite status and it will be hard to separate the new from the bad.
a) Most servers with reserved slots have an even max number, not odd
b) Most servers with reserved slots reserve far more than just the last slot. Two and four reserved slots are common, and I think I've seen as many as eight? Not entirely sure, because I try to ignore those servers now.
The most brilliant thing i have heard all dat!
There's so much that can be done this way from web browsers that isn't really exploited at the minute.
The KingKahuna is the most annoying. If I wanted to join another server, I would. I don't need it sending to another full server in an endless loop (if they check to see if there was room BEFORE they sent you, well, that would be much better. As it stands, the developer for this redirect lacks vision).
Tactical I understand they want to sell slots. But getting kicked as the commander by someone who is new to the game, well, no thanks.
Other then those three servers, I have not seen this issue. There are plenty of servers to choose from, so just choose a different one (and I understand that servers and bandwidth are not free, so often server admins are just trying to reimburse rather then make money).
TacticalGamer does it, and KingKahuna will relocate you to a different server if you join one that's "full."
It kicks after 22 but note that lets say that at 20 3 people connect. The last person to get into the game even if they were in reality the 21st person will be kicked. (so have a fast computer).
Also you can get kicked in game if a reserved slot player or admin joins. For example if I join and the server is 22/23 someone will get kicked to make room. It is just that this is very rare as personally I will actually wait for a slot to open to minimize the kicks in the server and b/c I am watching the server traffic nearly 24/7 anyways lol.
What you see in NS2 server browser:
Server A (13/16) <-- Regular server with 3 public slots available
Server B (13/16 [2]) <-- Has 2 reserved slots, but 1 public slot still available
Server C (14/16 [2]) <-- Has 2 reserved slots, but no public slots available
- If a player tries to join server B, it joins normally (since there is at least 1 public slot available).
- If a player tries to join server C, it will do a quick server request to verify the player has reserved slot access. If access is granted, the client will connect. Otherwise, it will pop-up a message indicating that a public slot is not available.
It would also be nice if the client could show in a different color, or even (optionally) completely hide servers which are full (to non-reserved players) due to reserved slots.
Choices: Once the number of open slots drops below the number of reserved slots (such as a 15th player joins server C), then the server has two choices:
1. Kick the most recently joined non-reserved player (if present), to drop the player
2. Let the player count stay at 15/16, not-kicking anyone.
Commentary: The problem with this is that the NS2 client needs to be built to allow this. It cannot be a mod as new players (who don't know anything about reserved slots) are the ones that will be hurt worst by the current system (of kicking after you join).
That only happens if the map changes while you were already loading
AFAIK precaching goes slow till 10% then goes fast to 100% but if it gets stuck the map changed while you were joining
My record is 3 servers (4th was empty), courtesy of King Kahuna. They have 4 servers, so I almost did it
Run his server browser mod to avoid the slot count misinformation shown by the 250 stock server browser.
client mod: ARS - Avoid Reserved Slots
Wich uncludes:
- best possible performance (if an server cant handle 22 slots for example, he should lower the playercount)
- Kicking cheaters, griefers, idiots, etc (and not players that are too good for him)
- Dont break the own rules (i saw that very often)
But the goal of most admins seem to be:
- Filling a server @ all cost
- Taking players in endless redirect cycles to fill all the servers
- Kick/ban good players without any reason (if other players have 25-5 stats - kick, if the admins has 25-5 stats its ok)
btw. im sure we have empty servers soon filled with bots so you cant see in the serverbrowser what server has players or not.
Wasnt that one of the reasons NS1 died? hmm, nvm
Back to topic:
The only half working way atm for reserved slots is a password if the server is full.
The downside of this is that most players didnt use the password filter in the serverbrowser.
So the server disappear if its full.
Big thanks to @wyzcrak for stepping up and adopting typo's workaround on your servers. As much as I've complained about Tactical Gamer (and others) over this specific issue, I've also appreciated that you are at least aware of the issue, understand our concerns, and have at least considered some solutions. I'm glad that typo has devised and implemented a solution that you can accept and I'm glad that you've accepted it.
All that needs to be done is better server support to better inform the player of the server they are joining and better support for admins to target the players they want (assuming some server hosts want to generate income for slots)
Some of the filters we have now are doing a swell job, like I don't want to connect to servers with low performance or high pings, empty or full. Perhaps if there was native support for reserved slots, then that number wouldn't be hidden to the user.
Most people join servers that have space for them (+ their friends if any) and it just seems like false advertising when you join a 16/25, you know which ones they are ;p
My CDN $0.02,
ISE
needs official support PLeez
Reserved slots aren't extra slots to play on top of the normal server population. The extra slots are there for someone to join so the server can know if they qualify for a reserved slot, then it trades out so the max population is the same.
kudos for typodaemon's worksround!