Advanced movement in 250
Mestaritonttu
Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
A thread for sorting out the messy bits.
Okay so here's ezekiels video, which I presume is the only material right now? (Advanced & Fade videos same user.)
It's nice (altho ezzy, pwease make a tiny script next time so you don't dawdle around so much :P) but leaves me with a couple of questions:
1. Does the svcheats debugspeed work correctly right now so you can test bunnyhopping properly?
2. Holding A/D while strafing, does letting go of either strafe at any point decrease speed, or is it only required when hitting the ground, or what?
3. Is there any reason not to crouch all the time as a Fade? Assuming you're just moving around with bunnyhop.
4. Theoretical silliness: How would bunnyhopping work without A/D keys? Using only the mouse to "snake along"? (Like I think it was in NS1...)
5. Is bunnyhopping related somehow to the fact that Skulks and Marines can't jump NE or NW anymore? (Northeast, northwest.) Jumping NE or NW simply makes you jump forward. Feels quite awkward.
(Please keep the "bunnyhopping is horrible and I hate everyone" to a minimum, mostly talking mechanics here.
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Comments
It is NOT bunny hopping.
Speed is gained primarily by walljumping or using leap. Jumping repeatedly preserves the speed you have, allowing you to keep building more the same way. Now you know how to bhop in NS2 - you can stop reading now. Yes, really.
Holding A/D is not required at any point, think of it as an advanced variant. What it does is prevent the small loss of speed that normally occurs when you turn in midair. So if you master it you can build and maintain speed more easily - however, you can still bunnyhop fairly effectively without ever touching those keys. Again, let me emphasize this - put the old school snaking mouse movements out of your mind, it's not about that anymore.
Debug speed worked, I just didn't use it because this wasn't the final version and I knew speeds would change; you can no longer go this fast
If you don't let go of either key, then I'd assume it'd so the same as holding forward and backward, it would do nothing aka not move you. Strafing is for turning and nothing more
The version displayed was when fade would automatically crouch when using blink iirc
This isn't like gldsrc engine, you can gain speed by holding W and jumping along a wall; for a fade you jump and tap blink and then continue to jump to maintain speed, walking/staying on the ground is what applies ground friction and this is what slows you down
You should be able to jump any direction afaik, try strafing into your desired direction after a jump
Hes correct with point 5, you can't jump diagonally in 250, only in the direction you're facing. You can turn loads in the air using the mouse, but he means jump looking forward while moving slightly diagonally.
As for what to call the new movement I'd go for chaining or chain jumping, as it's all about combining different movements together - walljump, ground jumps, leap etc to build/maintain speed.
I was just thinking about like a list of things to say in a post-it note so you don't have to think about stuff mid video.
Urrh, but if you do let go? And does the mouse turn need to be consistent or just when hitting the floor? These are tiny details I know, just wondering if anyone knows...
Yes, I completely forgot that all the air-accel silliness belonged to that engine alone. *sigh* Good times.
I am discussing the mechanic. Your post seemed to echo some very common misconceptions about how it works, so I explained how it works in an attempt to prevent further confusion. The system is fundamentally very simple, and people should be introduced to the core concepts before strafing is even mentioned. You mentioned mouse movements when hitting the floor this time - nope, NS2 bunnyhopping has almost nothing to do with mouse movements.
THIS IS A THREAD ABOUT DISCUSSING THE MECHANIC, FOR GODS SAKE. I do not care about what you "think people should be introduced to".
IronHorse, please remove that promote.
This is NOT an opinion thread.
Yeah, you're a real delight to discuss with.
To answer you more explicitly, losing speed happens during any turn in midair. Each degree you turn, a little speed is lost, unless you are holding strafe. Hitting the ground doesn't change your speed one way or the other.
About the hitting ground part - I'm specifically interested what are the minimal requirements for A/D strafing. Lets see if I can explain that better - in what ways can you fumble AND STILL keep gaining speed with A/D strafing? That's the biggie.
From that perspective, there isn't really a minimum goal for A/D - you can never strafe at all and still gain speed if you're "bunnyhopping" effectively. But the more you do strafe, the less often you will dip in speed.
Your OP is only asking questions, have they now been answered?.. is that all, if you did not want to discuss the mechanic itself?
Zek appears to be discussing it intricately and in a helpful, approach-able manner.... ?
His post that i promoted is helpful and factual. There's literally zero opinions or incorrect information in that post. The promotion remains.
And he actually didn't say anywhere for anyone to stop reading the thread...? He said the reader could stop reading his sentence or explanation of the mechanic because it was that simple.
Its a popular literary device in sales : "Read no further, this is all you need to know about X" ... you are taking it personally, unnecessarily.
And btw: strafing is not required... you'd have to strafe jump 17 times to gain the same speed as 1 wall jump.
So lastly, what is the topic, exactly?
There you go. Might as well lock this thread now, it's not going anywhere.
Good night.
Let's not lock the thread as this is pretty important information. And if your'e going to start a thread with a question let's at least try to be reasonable about the answers you get. All of it makes quite a bit of sense when you put it into practice.
I have used this in the ready room as fade to build up to top speed (no blink) by moving in figure of 8. Takes some time to get to top speed!
Walljump/blink obviously gets you started and can top up speed with each if you make a mistake, but essentially you can chain together two walljumps, or blink once to get top speed, and continue with pseudo BH ad infinitum. Watch out for stairs, the jump timing is hard!
Crouching as fade is useful. Wish it was toggle as there's no need not to crouch at all now, ever. It would look even more ridiculous than the stupid bouncing rabbits we currently have, but aesthetics have clearly no place at all in the new movement system. I don't crouch all the time as I start to get cramp holding down all these buttons all the time, but the clipping issues are worse if you don't crouch, I think. I've lost a few fades to getting stuck on observatories, marines and extractors. Very frustrating. Might just have to work through the cramp and see if crouch actually does resolve the clipping issues.
Agree with this, fades in midair or blinking should just use the crouching collision box. It's way too annoying to have this requirement to hold down crouch in order to have the lowest possible chance of getting stuck on something.
On a related note, I hope the Fade gets a proper directional Shadow Step "swoosh" effect in the next update. Something more related to the blue SS swirl would be awesome.
Maybe the current "speed blur" could be used for top-speed forward movement (instead of Skulk panting) instead?