My Basic Explanation of New Alien Movement. Critique for betterment of community :P

TrustMeImADentistTrustMeImADentist Join Date: 2013-04-27 Member: 185014Members Posts: 20
edited June 2013 in NS2 General Discussion
If they released BT with a 50% sale/free weekend or whatever, that would be very very smart.

If they just released BT without doing that, that would be pretty dumb. I have high hopes for BT!

ALTHOUGH, there STILL needs to be some in-game explanation to new players about how skulk and fade movement works.

I kinda see it as two levels of difficulty for the skulk.

LEVEL 1 (I don't do this but I saw Strayan's video and he does)
....Jump off the edge of a wall so that you gain momentum in the game engine.
....The first jump after the initial wall jump will let you maintain that momentum (speed). This jump has to be directed back at the wall though, because any jumps afterward will kill that momentum.
....Jump off the wall and repeat.

LEVEL 2 (I guess a little bit more difficult, but not really. Also, it's way more fun when you finally get it).
....Jump off wall to gain momentum.
....Pseudo-Bunnyhop (PBH). PBH'ing is where you jump, strafe in a direction (L/R) while simultaneously looking in that direction. So, if you're coming to a corner that turns left, and you have some momentum going (from a wall jump, or later in the game from leap), you would jump, immediately press and hold A, and smoothly guide your skulk left around the corner with the mouse. In NS2_amazingalienmap (that's not a real map if you're a noob), you'd land in a long hallway in front of you. Immediately upon landing, you want to switch to strafe to the right, because trying to PBH left again would make you hit the wall awkwardly. So, when you land, you press and hold D, and smoothly look a little to the left. It doesn't have to be very much, but smooth mouse movements are key when you're first learning. Then, you'd switch to strafing and holding left again while smoothly looking left a little. What makes all this challenging is that you're trying to go faster and faster with each jump or leap, so you need to be precise and accurate. Messing this movement up will bring you back down to normal skulk running speed. Also, you hold W (forward) the whole time.

You know you're doing it right if you hear your skulk start to growl. At over speed 10 (I think) the skulk will begin to pant. When you're really flying, your skulk will begin to do almost a tiny roar. Celerity will get you to a pant almost immediately.

Basically, you want to build momentum with a skulk or a fade and maintain it through PBH. There are tons of ways to build momentum, like wall jumping, leaping, tapping blink... Just as long as you PBH afterward you will maintain your speed.

It's not easy and it's not supposed to be, but once you learn it it's a lot of fun.

Also, a lot of players may not realize that the speed and movement mechanics are primarily for getting around the map. The same ways that skulks have always killed marines, i.e. being sneaky sneaky, and having good aim with their melee bite, still apply. You can use PBH'ing and speed in creative ways once you get good at it, but I fumbled for a while under the impression these tactics would make me a god skulk. Still gotta bite them good!
Post edited by TrustMeImADentist on
EmooBlarney_StoneAurOn2
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Comments

  • NeokenNeoken Bruges, Belgium Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27447Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester Posts: 1,305 Advanced user
    Good post, just don't mention the word "bunnyhop", for your own safety. :D
    RisingSunAurOn2
  • TrustMeImADentistTrustMeImADentist Join Date: 2013-04-27 Member: 185014Members Posts: 20
    acknowledged and accounted for lol.

    I know there are a ton of purists out there.
  • AgielAgiel Join Date: 2006-11-14 Member: 58605Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester Posts: 290 Fully active user
    edited June 2013
    I think you're overcomplicating it slightly. I've used this explanation in the past:

    1. Use the walls to your advantage! Walljumping works just like in the previous version. In addition you will notice that skulks are now a lot faster when running on walls than on the ground.
    2. Maintain the speed gained by walljumping by continuously jumping to avoid ground friction. You can now press and hold the jump button to jump as soon as you land (still one click per jump).
    3. You will notice that air friction is lower than in the old version, and instead you lose speed when you make turns. This can be avoided by "strafing into the turn". What you do is hold strafe left when you turn left and strafe right when you turn right. Practice makes perfect!
    Talga Vassternich - AgielTV
  • xen32xen32 Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 1,011 Advanced user
    You can now press and hold the jump button to jump as soon as you land
    I keep losing speed as a skulk when I just jump. Doesn't happen with fade. What am I doing wrong?
  • NominousNominous Baltimore, MD Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146518Members Posts: 325 Advanced user
    edited June 2013
    Agiel wrote: »
    I think you're overcomplicating it slightly. I've used this explanation in the past:

    1. Use the walls to your advantage! Walljumping works just like in the previous version. In addition you will notice that skulks are now a lot faster when running on walls than on the ground.
    2. Maintain the speed gained by walljumping by continuously jumping to avoid ground friction. You can now press and hold the jump button to jump as soon as you land (still one click per jump).
    3. You will notice that air friction is lower than in the old version, and instead you lose speed when you make turns. This can be avoided by "strafing into the turn". What you do is hold strafe left when you turn left and strafe right when you turn right. Practice makes perfect!
    I like this explanation, but walljumping isn't exactly the same as before. No longer can you glance off of objects/walls at ground level. Also, tall heights no longer provide gravitational high speed gains if you jump off of a wall or ceiling.
  • ReekeReeke Join Date: 2003-11-28 Member: 23688Members Posts: 773 Fully active user
    xen32 wrote: »
    You can now press and hold the jump button to jump as soon as you land
    I keep losing speed as a skulk when I just jump. Doesn't happen with fade. What am I doing wrong?

    You need to chain walljumps into it to keep high levels of speed up. I try and never go more than two ground hops before getting in at least one walljump.
  • AgielAgiel Join Date: 2006-11-14 Member: 58605Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester Posts: 290 Fully active user
    xen32 wrote: »
    You can now press and hold the jump button to jump as soon as you land
    I keep losing speed as a skulk when I just jump. Doesn't happen with fade. What am I doing wrong?
    The fade has more inherent air control and less air friction which makes it easier to maintain the speed when not using the strafe keys. Can't say I have a good explanation for why the numbers are what they are :P
    Talga Vassternich - AgielTV
  • SanCoSanCo Join Date: 2012-08-18 Member: 155744Members Posts: 139
    edited June 2013
    It's funny how you say Level 2 isn't more difficult. I have, what I have to assume, a very poor hand cordination. So ye it's almost impossible for me to maintain that speed for longer than 2-3 jumps. I simply can't do A/D, Spacebar and mouse movement at the same time, just aint gonna happen.
  • RabidWeaselRabidWeasel Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5337Members Posts: 955 Fully active user
    Panting doesn't exist in 250 because the sound was deemed to be an inappropriate placeholder. Sucks because it's a really intuitive way for new players to know when they've got some decent speed going (especially pre-celerity/leap)
  • PaajtorPaajtor Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168634Members Posts: 308 Advanced user
    edited June 2013
    I think the new skulk movement is to complicted and non-intuïtive.

    Why do I need to HOLD forward key, AND press jump key, AND press a L or R strafe key, AND look in my desired direction, all at the same time (that is, within a fraction of a second)?
    Jump and forward are enough for 1 hand. It just feels artificial to have to press a strafe key in addition to the jump key...for a movement that in reality, my mouse-hand wants to do, to be honest.
    And depending on the situation, SWITCH between 2 different strafe-keys on top of that.
    All to easy, my finger that rests on the forward key comes off, and gone is my speed.
    Or I bounce my head against the ceiling or something, because my jumps go different than my mouse-hand wants to go.

    Strafe into the direction I'm also aiming my mouse > that's double controls for 1 and the same movement.
    Please get rid of the strafe-key part for this movement...together with the mouse-movement, it should be enough to get max speed.
    This would simplify things allot, and shift some of the work to the mouse-hand.

    Having to chain wall-jumps is great, it took me only 30mins of practice to get used to the 250 version of it.
    At least, it gave me a few seconds of speed-boost (the 2nd skulk sound).



  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Posts: 1,194
    That's a good question. What would really be different, if you wouldn't have to press A or D? You'd still do the snakey-jump-path, but just with your mouse. What do the strafe keys actually add... NS1 bunnyhopping didn't have strafe rite?

    Or wait is the problem that there's no air friction stuff in NS2 engine so it needs to be created with the A D and I have no idea what I'm talking about.
    image
  • KamamuraKamamura Join Date: 2013-03-06 Member: 183736Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 669 Advanced user
    I read the original post, and if something like that really is in the game, I think it's one of the things that's killing the game. Heaving to learn some esoteric masonic handshake just to move faster in a direction is plainly a bad game design. I could stand it in a 2D beat em up, because there it's sort of expected, but in a game like this, it's horrible. The basic principles of the game should be clear and intuitive. There is no reason why the game implements pseudo-physics that violates normal principles of momentum under cryptic, not very well defined conditions. Running forward should be as simple as pressing a single key, as moving a bishop in chess is as simple as placing the piece to another square. Mastery should lie elsewhere.
    Each day, hundreds of enthusiastic new players rush to join the ranks of the TSF to protect the universe, our beloved and the values of our society from the alien menace.

    Glory to the TSF! Glory to Arstotzka ! Glory to the mods!
    MrFangs
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Posts: 1,194
    Nope, don't agree at all. Skulks are all about movement, and if that movement is boring, then skulks are boring. There is no mastery to be found outside movement. Marines have aim, skulks have movement.

    Obviously it shouldn't be cryptic, we've got a history of bad tutorials etc unfortunately. :|
    image
  • NeokenNeoken Bruges, Belgium Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27447Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester Posts: 1,305 Advanced user
    Kamamura wrote: »
    I read the original post, and if something like that really is in the game, I think it's one of the things that's killing the game. Heaving to learn some esoteric masonic handshake just to move faster in a direction is plainly a bad game design. I could stand it in a 2D beat em up, because there it's sort of expected, but in a game like this, it's horrible. The basic principles of the game should be clear and intuitive. There is no reason why the game implements pseudo-physics that violates normal principles of momentum under cryptic, not very well defined conditions. Running forward should be as simple as pressing a single key, as moving a bishop in chess is as simple as placing the piece to another square. Mastery should lie elsewhere.

    Never been a big fan of bunnyhopping myself, but the pseudobunnyhopping in b250 isn't really that essential though. It's just there for the people who want something extra. The speed you can gain from just walljumping alone is pretty massive in comparison to the speed you can gain by pseudobunnyhopping.
    IronHorse
  • AgielAgiel Join Date: 2006-11-14 Member: 58605Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester Posts: 290 Fully active user
    edited June 2013
    The problem here is even mentioning bunnyhopping when there's really no need to. Just read my post above (third reply) where I manage to explain everything you need to know about the new skulk movement in 3 simple steps.

    People are making this way more complicated than it needs to be...
    Talga Vassternich - AgielTV
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,690 Advanced user
    That's a good question. What would really be different, if you wouldn't have to press A or D? You'd still do the snakey-jump-path, but just with your mouse. What do the strafe keys actually add... NS1 bunnyhopping didn't have strafe rite?

    Or wait is the problem that there's no air friction stuff in NS2 engine so it needs to be created with the A D and I have no idea what I'm talking about.

    You don't have to press A/D, doing so only gives you a minor benefit. The OP's guide is not accurate.
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Posts: 1,194
    ...what. If it gives you a benefit of course you have to press A/D.
    image
    AurOn2twiliteblue
  • kalakujakalakuja Join Date: 2012-09-11 Member: 159045Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 380
    And still no videos from the 250 patch not the month old faster skulk bt patch.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,690 Advanced user
    There is no snakey mouse movement involved in NS2 because the act of turning does not increase your speed at all last I checked - the OP is misinformed. The strafe keys just improve your speed retention on corners, which is a boost for advanced players but not mandatory to go fast. In either case, on a straightaway you just hold forward and go straight.
  • RadmanRadman Join Date: 2013-04-05 Member: 184656Members Posts: 126
    So strafe jumping retains speed only (and gives a little), jumping normally doesnt?
  • RaZDaZRaZDaZ Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167331Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 465 Fully active user
    edited June 2013
    I'm finding that strafe jumping retains the speed enough so and consistently that I'm exclusively using it to get around the map. I quite like it, it's a lot more interesting than the classic skulk.
    NS2 ID: RaZDaZ
    Old School AvP2 Vet
    TrustMeImADentist
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,191 Fully active user
    The pseudo-bunnyhop IS mandatory for skulk movement now. The reason is that once you've wall jumped once our twice in a series of jumps, you can then maintain momentum anywhere you go without having to walljump again, just like on the fade. On the fade that's even more important to maintain energy (blink once, never blink again), but it's still important for the skulk so you don't have to keep looking for props to time your wall jumping, you can bob through any area, walls, props or none, at top speed indefinitely. If you lose speed on cornering, the trouble you face is not being able to engage marines around corners while maintaining your speed: ergo the PBH is basically mandatory now.
    For all your gorge busting needs.
    It is very strange how some1 who spend so much time makeing videos to help mans, can fall and take miror image of dark ages bourgeoisie, outdated set of belifs
    How True.
  • kalakujakalakuja Join Date: 2012-09-11 Member: 159045Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 380
    Anyone can keep 11 speed constantly without the celerity/leap?
    Seems to go down so fast after few corners
  • PaajtorPaajtor Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168634Members Posts: 308 Advanced user
    edited June 2013
    Nope, don't agree at all. Skulks are all about movement, and if that movement is boring, then skulks are boring. There is no mastery to be found outside movement. Marines have aim, skulks have movement.
    My suggestion to remove the strafe-part from the speed-buildup, is meant to shift that part of those controls entirely to the mouse.
    Skill will still be needed, as you need the mouse to land bites on marines.
    Directing your momentum towards where the marine is - or will be - is a more intuïtive way of control, as that is where you use the mouse for (aim + attack).
    kalakuja wrote: »
    Anyone can keep 11 speed constantly without the celerity/leap?
    Seems to go down so fast after few corners
    No, I only get speed11 for a few seconds at most.

  • elodeaelodea Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,786 Fully active user
    edited June 2013
    kalakuja wrote: »
    Anyone can keep 11 speed constantly without the celerity/leap?
    Seems to go down so fast after few corners
    The way i understand it, you cannot keep high speeds constantly without celerity because your accel < friction at those points. Diminishing returns on net accel so that speed is basically soft capped.

    Celerity increases your accel so that you can maintain higher speeds. Or maybe it just decreases friction, but that seems unlikely.

    *Or maybe im just talking out of my ass, but yes, your observation is designed to be so kalakuja
    Gorge bilebomb forever.
  • AgielAgiel Join Date: 2006-11-14 Member: 58605Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester Posts: 290 Fully active user
    Celerity does decrease air friction for skulks actually :)
    Talga Vassternich - AgielTV
  • PaajtorPaajtor Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168634Members Posts: 308 Advanced user
    Agiel wrote: »
    Celerity does decrease air friction for skulks actually :)
    So with celerity, you also gain more speed during a jump or a leap from a hight?
    Or do you mean, just the air friction during movement on the ground/wall?
  • thelawenforcerthelawenforcer Join Date: 2013-02-18 Member: 183176Members Posts: 148
    Panting doesn't exist in 250 because the sound was deemed to be an inappropriate placeholder. Sucks because it's a really intuitive way for new players to know when they've got some decent speed going (especially pre-celerity/leap)

    it was actually added for balance reasons - with its removal, the issue has returned. bhopping skulks just coming out of nowhere again... I think the sound attenuation needs to be lowered, so that they (very quiet) skulk hopping sounds are louder and carry further.

  • RabidWeaselRabidWeasel Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5337Members Posts: 955 Fully active user
    Panting doesn't exist in 250 because the sound was deemed to be an inappropriate placeholder. Sucks because it's a really intuitive way for new players to know when they've got some decent speed going (especially pre-celerity/leap)

    it was actually added for balance reasons - with its removal, the issue has returned. bhopping skulks just coming out of nowhere again... I think the sound attenuation needs to be lowered, so that they (very quiet) skulk hopping sounds are louder and carry further.

    Yeah I know that, I was just saying *why* it got removed (it's also going to come back as soon as they get an appropriate sound to use, apparently)
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