Is shade hive 1st/2nd viable on pubs?
Savant
Join Date: 2002-11-30 Member: 10289Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Join Date: 2002-11-30 Member: 10289Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Open question.
With shade first there is a sacrifice. For what you get (cloaking/ink + silence/camouflage) you need to give up either shift (hatch/energize + celerity/adrenaline) or crag (heal/heal wave + carapace/regeneration). This means that when you are at hive two, your lifeforms will be lacking either celerity or carapace, and if you go crag last you won't have any crag chambers until that point. Considering the strength of the marine team at this point in the game, this can make the alien team very vulnerable. Even if you go shade second, you still end up with lifeforms lacking either celerity or carapace until hive three.
Note, I'm not suggesting that shade first is completely broken. I've seen teams make it work. The problem is that it needs a level of skill and teamwork that tends not to be present on public servers.
So, is shade hive 1st/2nd viable on pubs? Why or why not?
With shade first there is a sacrifice. For what you get (cloaking/ink + silence/camouflage) you need to give up either shift (hatch/energize + celerity/adrenaline) or crag (heal/heal wave + carapace/regeneration). This means that when you are at hive two, your lifeforms will be lacking either celerity or carapace, and if you go crag last you won't have any crag chambers until that point. Considering the strength of the marine team at this point in the game, this can make the alien team very vulnerable. Even if you go shade second, you still end up with lifeforms lacking either celerity or carapace until hive three.
Note, I'm not suggesting that shade first is completely broken. I've seen teams make it work. The problem is that it needs a level of skill and teamwork that tends not to be present on public servers.
So, is shade hive 1st/2nd viable on pubs? Why or why not?
Comments
Silence can be devastating in the right hands, but is awful on Gorges
Usually going shade hive first means getting both silence and cloak evolutions to let your team decide how they want to play
The only real downside to Shade first is that you will have very weak Onos if you cannot secure that 3rd hive
Give Shade first a try on maps where there are 5 or 6 tech points as you really won't be risking much beyond egg lock
The shade evolutions are a nice luxury to have, but IMO they should always be put off until the third hive.
I think if you're forced to choose crag/shift for second hive after going shade first, crag is the better bargain. Once the weapon upgrades start rolling out you really need carapace to be useful.
Shade first is certainly viable, but with its current state it is decidedly weaker overall than either of the other two choices.
In the right hands, it works fine. If there is a skill disparity leaning toward the alien team, it works fine too. If the marine team has it's act together, it is a death sentence.
I think it went like this:
3 rts -> shade hive -> veil / silence -> 2nd hive -> heal it -> crag hive -> leap -> shell / carapace
Lock 3rd hive location and you're good to go. Obviously start can be optimized a bit to get silence out quicker while not delaying 2nd hive, but that's the idea. Without good skulks who can really abuse silence and keep the 3rd hive location contested (no pgs), you're going to have issues though.
What's wrong with ink now?
Unless it was stealth fixed in the current build, you have to ink before the scan to prevent an ARC from firing and even then seems to not block vision sometimes to the ARC. (It works properly in sewlek's balance mod)
Ambush and baiting and valid tactics but if the whole team is sitting around waiting for someone to walk under them, it cripples your offensive push.