Commanders not reading chat

2

Comments

  • KalabalanaKalabalana Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22859Members
    I notice attention varies from person to person. For some staying on top of all chat/mics over their regular game is easy, for most its not mentally comfortable/possible.
    Lots of info is tricky
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    shonan wrote: »
    That is only telling of an underlying problem with the possibility of basic communication the game gives players for use.
    That's certainly true, but I've never seen nonverbal communication approach the usefulness of verbal communication in any online multiplayer game.

  • statikgstatikg Join Date: 2012-09-19 Member: 159978Members
    edited February 2013
    I didn't bother to read any of this thread because I only respond to audio.

    ps. Secret tactic to using text to get the commanders attention, spam the fuck out of the chat until you get what you want.
  • CalegoCalego Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181848Members, NS2 Map Tester
    The problem with typing is that you have to stand still, do nothing but type for a second or two, then go back to doing whatever you were supposed to be doing.

    Onos attacks you, you can't just quickly type "Onos, Transit moving to sub" and expect to get away. You gotta move and you gotta move now. With a mic you can move and talk, you can attack and talk, etc. Voice simply works better. If someone is typing messages I'll reply with speech. I try to pay attention to the chat but you can't expect me to be constantly attentive of it. I've got cysts to place, drifters to move, crags to set up, enemy units to spot, powernodes to protect.

    So yes, there are indeed 2.5 methods of communicating in NS2. 1 of which is far far far more effective than the other 1.5.

    I'm not "choosing to ignore" one method of communication over another. Its just that one is better than the other. As far as commands go, they suffice. Pings on maps are just annoying most of the time. I only really use them to tell a group of players an exact spot that I'm moving something to. All a ping's purpose is to say "Hey, look at this spot on the map." Not "Do something here" without voice accompanying it.
  • GeekavengerGeekavenger Join Date: 2012-08-31 Member: 157117Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Apreche2 wrote: »
    GET A MIC

    They cost almost nothing. If you can afford a computer to play NS2 you can afford the $5 to get a microphone.

    The only people who have a valid excuse to not get a mic are deaf/mute people. Sadly and unfairly, def people are already disadvantaged playing NS2 because all aliens and marines have silence all the time. We should probably discuss how to help such people in a different thread.


    While I agree a Mic is not a big investment., there are people who legitimately might choose to forego voice chat online for unfortunate reasons such as women and young people. While not as big a problem in this community it is still a problem and a risk. I have been on pubs with one or two really mean trolls screaming down a 13-14 year old (guessing on the age based on the voice). And I have yet to hear a single woman in voice chat on pubs because they have all been taught through other online communities that they will be met with nothing but crass harassment and sexist behavior. Again I feel like this community is far better than that of Halo or CoD but the problem still exists and the risk is still there. So I guess I am saying it is a bigger population then Deaf people, and as you suggested maybe better discussed in a different thread.

    I feel like a contextual pre-recorder voice menu would work, but it would have to be different for every level so you could actually have the recorded marine saying Push Nano or Contact in Sub Access... etc.
  • soccerguy243soccerguy243 Join Date: 2012-12-22 Member: 175920Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    some comms are bad and/or new. so get over it.
  • FuleFule Join Date: 2009-06-04 Member: 67683Members
    edited February 2013
    Apreche2 wrote: »
    GET A MIC

    They cost almost nothing. If you can afford a computer to play NS2 you can afford the $5 to get a microphone.

    The only people who have a valid excuse to not get a mic are deaf/mute people. Sadly and unfairly, def people are already disadvantaged playing NS2 because all aliens and marines have silence all the time. We should probably discuss how to help such people in a different thread.


    While I agree a Mic is not a big investment., there are people who legitimately might choose to forego voice chat online for unfortunate reasons such as women and young people. While not as big a problem in this community it is still a problem and a risk. I have been on pubs with one or two really mean trolls screaming down a 13-14 year old (guessing on the age based on the voice). And I have yet to hear a single woman in voice chat on pubs because they have all been taught through other online communities that they will be met with nothing but crass harassment and sexist behavior. Again I feel like this community is far better than that of Halo or CoD but the problem still exists and the risk is still there. So I guess I am saying it is a bigger population then Deaf people, and as you suggested maybe better discussed in a different thread.

    I feel like a contextual pre-recorder voice menu would work, but it would have to be different for every level so you could actually have the recorded marine saying Push Nano or Contact in Sub Access... etc.

    I've seen a few girls, women use a mic in pub games and no one said anything about it, so your thinking is kinda wrong.
  • MMZ_TorakMMZ_Torak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 3770Members


    While I agree a Mic is not a big investment., there are people who legitimately might choose to forego voice chat online for unfortunate reasons such as women and young people. While not as big a problem in this community it is still a problem and a risk. I have been on pubs with one or two really mean trolls screaming down a 13-14 year old (guessing on the age based on the voice). And I have yet to hear a single woman in voice chat on pubs because they have all been taught through other online communities that they will be met with nothing but crass harassment and sexist behavior. Again I feel like this community is far better than that of Halo or CoD but the problem still exists and the risk is still there. So I guess I am saying it is a bigger population then Deaf people, and as you suggested maybe better discussed in a different thread.

    Normally, I am right there with you, Mic use is a personal choice. That said; it is a personal choice. It is a choice you made, and not one that the rest of the team has to abide by. If you choose to hamstring yourself in a game where communication is probably one of the most important aspects of team play, don't expect everyone else to accommodate you. I would even go as far to say that commanders must have a mic. Commanders that can do the job effectively without a mic are few and far between, and teams receptive to a mic-less commander are even more rare.
  • irEricirEric Join Date: 2012-11-20 Member: 172615Members
    MMZ_Torak wrote: »

    Normally, I am right there with you, Mic use is a personal choice. That said; it is a personal choice. It is a choice you made, and not one that the rest of the team has to abide by. If you choose to hamstring yourself in a game where communication is probably one of the most important aspects of team play, don't expect everyone else to accommodate you. I would even go as far to say that commanders must have a mic. Commanders that can do the job effectively without a mic are few and far between, and teams receptive to a mic-less commander are even more rare.

    Totally agree. I used to play WoW with friends and some of the amazing players were just uncomfortable with speaking English. One would type during some important moments. Typed damn fast. I'll admit then and now(in this thread), I'll seem a bit forceful insisting people step out of their comfort zones. Does that make me wrong? Yeah I guess so but I'm no more wrong then others insisting I accommodate them for their "personal choices". You've made the choice, accept the consequences.
  • GeekavengerGeekavenger Join Date: 2012-08-31 Member: 157117Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    MMZ_Torak wrote: »
    Normally, I am right there with you, Mic use is a personal choice. That said; it is a personal choice. It is a choice you made, and not one that the rest of the team has to abide by. If you choose to hamstring yourself in a game where communication is probably one of the most important aspects of team play, don't expect everyone else to accommodate you. I would even go as far to say that commanders must have a mic. Commanders that can do the job effectively without a mic are few and far between, and teams receptive to a mic-less commander are even more rare.

    I agree, Chat is going to be inherently less effective than voice, especially in this game. I think there might be a way to improve the non-verbal (or at least indirect verbal) interface in the game to improve the experience of those who do make that choice. Probably a lower priority though than a lot of other improvements and optimizations the devs could be spending their time on.



    I've seen a few girls, women use a mic in pub games and no one said anything about it, so your thinking is kinda wrong.

    Awesome, I would expect that from this community. Again I have had a few moderately bad experiences directed at other players who sounded young over the mic, but have yet to encounter any females. My guess is the smaller population of players makes them rarer anyway. Regardless I think overall the community is very friendly and welcoming and often I would use the term professional even, which is awesome. One good experience I had with a Troll on a Pub server was they started saying a bunch of racist stuff trying to be funny and flooding the voice chat, no one responded at all. It was magical, we all just kept up the game related voice chat totally ignoring him. 2 minutes later he logged off the server. So again I think the problem isn't nearly to the scale of the bigger communities and is infinitely better than it could be. I was just pointing out that a physical disability might not be the only reason someone might not want to use a mic.

  • Apreche2Apreche2 Join Date: 2012-08-06 Member: 154849Members
    It is true that children or women might be afraid to use voice chat, but in NS I notice most people actually avoiding voice chat. Could it be there are that many young and/or female players? In that case if they only all started talking, it would be amazing.

    Also, I have been in NS2 games where women and children spoke with no problem. I have also been in just one were a kid got harassed. The difference was that in that one game the kid was not playing properly and was whining that he just wanted exo. Anyone of any age, gender, race, or creed would not be received well with that kind of behavior.

    If someone is afraid to talk on the mic, I would suggest just getting one and configuring it, even if you don't use it. Then only use it sparingly to say things like "gorges in south tunnel" or "hitting the RT in cavern." No matter what your voice sounds like, nobody will bother you if you just say those kinds of things that are necessary for gameplay.
  • Not SureNot Sure Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177758Members
    It takes a lot of skill to multitask efficiently as a commander and trying to communicate with him via text just makes it harder. A lot of commanders are slow to react and not great at multitasking, so maybe you should take it upon yourself to just get a microphone and help out.

    Good commanders will respond to (almost) everything, so really you're just dealing with bad commanders...
  • AmbAmb Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168647Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited February 2013
    Apreche2 wrote: »
    It is true that children or women might be afraid to use voice chat

    That's because the ammount of bs chicks have to put up with is just ridiculous, thanks to all the d!ckheads out there. Everytime a chick opens her mouth, dudes either try to get in her pants, or tell her to "get back in the kitchen". Sh!t, if I was a chick I wouldn't use a mic either. Although I seriously doubt the OP is a woman.
  • SpaceJewSpaceJew Join Date: 2012-09-03 Member: 157584Members
    This seems like a troll thread but why not.

    Buy a microphone if you're serious about playing NS2. People that type are slow boaters that will be eaten by a skulk while they type. It's not a slow paced strategy game, it's a FPS twitch game with a RTS attached to it.

    I admit a commander simply not reading the text area is perhaps a slightly different issue, but in all honesty are you sure he wasn't reading what you said or is it perhaps that he was ignoring your 'advice' because he had a different plan? I ignore people with voice half the time, if you're typing or using the chat wheel it's going to be ignored even more often, simply because most people don't need that function. After all, they own a microphone and can simply ask for what they want with one button instead of three, or 26, or whatever. Most times someone 'asks' for a health pack using the in-game voice wheel do so on accident, so I've learned to ignore it. Sucks for the one guy stuck back in 1995 without a headset, but I plan around people that can relay complicated information over voice versus some guy that camps out in base for two minutes writing an essay on what's happening over in Mineshaft. By the time you're done telling me something with typing, it's already moot information.

    If you don't have five bucks to spend on a microphone, what pray tell are you doing playing a video game that costs $20? Especially considering the internet connection that is required to play NS2? You spend what, $30 minimum on broadband? Seems like a lot of investment to balk at the device that lets you talk to people in a team centered game.

    Basically, if you're going to type you're already proving that you're a hindrance to the team unless you're racking up a 30-1 KDR. In that case, I submit you probably have a microphone and are instead simply not using it because you're an excellent player and maybe a little too drunk to be playing NS2 but hey it's a rookie server right?
  • CrazyEddieCrazyEddie Join Date: 2013-01-08 Member: 178196Members
    SpaceJew wrote: »
    Most times someone 'asks' for a health pack using the in-game voice wheel do so on accident

    Yeah, that was me. Sorry about that. I got fat fingers, I guess.
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    edited February 2013
    Katana- wrote: »
    please spend 5 dollars at wal mart and get a microphone. problem solved.

    :)

    I think the cheapest stand alone mic that works I can find offline is $15 and I think you are lucky to find that.

    Regardless, a mic should be mandatory.
    thefonz wrote: »
    Funny enough, I've had the opposite experience on occasion. I can call for am RT all day sometimes.... But when I type 'RT ventilation' bam, RT dropped.

    Still. Voice trumps typing most of the time.

    I've had this happen a couple times too, either the comm has you muted or hes practically def or can't understand spoken English.
  • MMZ_TorakMMZ_Torak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 3770Members
    edited February 2013
    sotanaht wrote: »
    Katana- wrote: »
    please spend 5 dollars at wal mart and get a microphone. problem solved.

    :)

    I think the cheapest stand alone mic that works I can find offline is $15 and I think you are lucky to find that.

    Regardless, a mic should be mandatory.

    $2.29
  • bp2008bp2008 Join Date: 2012-11-28 Member: 173581Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    Headsets please! Not desktop microphones + speakers. :D

    Also, I think the chair / hive should require voice activation. :D At least for the first 30 seconds while the teams are still populating.
  • FloodinatorFloodinator [HBZ] Member Join Date: 2005-02-22 Member: 42087Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2013
    You know watching the Chat, watching the map, go to requests and be aware of your Base, I only have 2 pairs of Eyes and the can only focus 1 Point. Would be cool to be a Spider an Eye for my coursor, so I can hit those dam Meds everybody wants, another one for the (Big) map at every important Point, one for the Chat and another for watching Porn...

    Really I miss so much of the Chat all the time when I play NS2 and mostly only read it when dead. That's why you should use a Mic all the time, even if you whisper in it.

    It isn't that the Coms or other Players don't want to read the chat, but they often don't have the time for it, so they didn't notice that something was even written because it already faded out.
    Just look at this Vid for example, do you have alot of time to read the Chat, and this is only 6vs6 scrim, now with 12 marines on the team.....


  • XaoXao Join Date: 2012-12-12 Member: 174840Members
    Get a mic is the worst argument I've ever heard for people too stupid or slow to read 6 words in 5 seconds.

    90% of mic chat I hear in NS2 is either flat out bullshit, misinformation or some dickhead giving a play by play on his entire life as if he's some youtube LetsPlayer, 10% if you're lucky is ever relevant to the game.

    It's way easier for me to read "3 skulks log" in half a second while still being able to hear everything around me than some mouth breather "guys hey guys I just got like owned by these skulks in log guys they like jumped out at me and I was like AAAHAHHHHH and they bit me in the face ey yeah guys" while I get fucked sideways because I can't hear people skulking around.

    Also if you find the commander too attention intensive I hope to christ you never play a RTS game, not intended to be a snide remark but just an accurate statement, your APM needs to be so much higher to micro while macroing in nearly every RTS that exists, NS2's macro consists of 6 second bursts for 90% of the game, people spend way too long watching stuff they can't help or "want to see how it plays out" instead of being the comm.
  • _Necro__Necro_ Join Date: 2011-02-15 Member: 81895Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    @Wang Tang: Ok, beside our obligatory Xao-has-to-disagree-flame-post, the opinion of the majority is clear. If you play marine com you are occupied 100% of the time. Text chat is slower than voice. If you use text chat, obviously some tasks get less time, no matter how fast you type. You are sacrificing effectiveness.

    I don't say, that I don't read the chat. I really try. But I simply can't guaranty to see it in high action moments. You know what, in beta I was afraid of using the mic too. Most people don't like their own voice. But after I lost my fade while typing one time, I started using my damn mic!

    You gave no real reason to not use the mic. Especially you didn't say why you don't use a mic. Believe me. Just try it. It makes NS2 so much better.

    On a side note: I also got some womans occasionally in the voice chat. I didn't saw them harassed ever in NS2.
  • |strofix||strofix| Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165453Members
    I'm pretty sure nobody expressly looks away when they see dirty dirty text appear on the screen. Most people simply don't realize it is there because they are actually putting some effort in and concentrating on the game.
  • SpaceJewSpaceJew Join Date: 2012-09-03 Member: 157584Members
    @Necro:

    I've been in plenty of matches with women players, and they traditionally talk more $h1t than the male players. Girl gamers are a thing to be feared. It doesn't matter if they can play or not, the gang rush to try and be on their team might put your eye out.

    Don't even get me started on players that trip over themselves to start a conversation. God, it must be empowering to be a girl that plays video games. So many thralls, so little time.

    It makes me feel bad for my gender sometimes, although I guess everyone is young once.

    /derail
    Commanding is an activity that results in a very high 'cognitive load.'

    Is that why I get nose bleeds from the metal chair?
  • luminalumina Join Date: 2012-06-15 Member: 153300Members
    Xao wrote: »
    Get a mic is the worst argument I've ever heard for people too stupid or slow to read 6 words in 5 seconds.

    90% of mic chat I hear in NS2 is either flat out bullshit, misinformation or some dickhead giving a play by play on his entire life as if he's some youtube LetsPlayer, 10% if you're lucky is ever relevant to the game.

    It's way easier for me to read "3 skulks log" in half a second while still being able to hear everything around me than some mouth breather "guys hey guys I just got like owned by these skulks in log guys they like jumped out at me and I was like AAAHAHHHHH and they bit me in the face ey yeah guys" while I get fucked sideways because I can't hear people skulking around.

    Also if you find the commander too attention intensive I hope to christ you never play a RTS game, not intended to be a snide remark but just an accurate statement, your APM needs to be so much higher to micro while macroing in nearly every RTS that exists, NS2's macro consists of 6 second bursts for 90% of the game, people spend way too long watching stuff they can't help or "want to see how it plays out" instead of being the comm.

    Talking to communicate is the worst idea you have ever heard?

    LOL... Wow...
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation
    bp2008 wrote: »
    Headsets please! Not desktop microphones + speakers. :D

    Also, I think the chair / hive should require voice activation. :D At least for the first 30 seconds while the teams are still populating.

    I think I see where your going there in that your worried about sound loop. (I think we have all heard it a few times) However, you should never really waste money on a headset when you could have been fine with a cheep mic and spending the rest of that money on good headphones instead. The value of a good set of headphones and a table top mic far exceeds any headset.

  • UnderwhelmedUnderwhelmed DemoDetective #?! Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58026Members, Constellation
    Commanding in NS is like a 20 APM job. Just about every half competent RTS player ought to be able to easily spare the attention to look at chat when something new pops up.
  • NaRcONaRcO Madrid Join Date: 2005-03-07 Member: 44219Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2013
    God bless your words Strayan!!!

    Sorry for my bad english guys u.u (spaniard here! ^^) but i need to say something about the Comm that i think it would be useful to the situation. Google translator help mode on :)

    I really want to see a "Scan Request" to Comm in NS2, i usually only text some "tips" to comm's and use much as i can the "requests" (alerts, orders, medpacks)... usually the "request orders" is enough to tell your comm u are ready to put some RT's, Phase Gate if u are near the enemy (or in their base) o simply to activate the power node, but is hard how to say to your comm its a scan request at ceratinly point/moment (no lights, advance position, etc...) without text or mic. And of course the Comm with the space bar go quickly to the request if needed
  • Angry ChildAngry Child Join Date: 2012-12-05 Member: 174256Members
    Purchase a microphone, purchase a microphone, purchase a microphone, that's all I had time to write
  • briatxbriatx Join Date: 2013-01-18 Member: 180352Members
    I never learned to read. Kids would always make fun of me in school. Go ahead, pile on. I'm used to it.

    Although sometimes when the voice channel is busy I will type some things out when waiting for power or RTs. Usually though it ends up being more like:

    <Press Y> Plz drop RT in *chomp* *chomp* *aaaaah*
    <Press Y> 3 skulks in Topo.

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