Lag Switching

BanditaBandita Join Date: 2013-01-18 Member: 180393Members
For anyone who doesn't know what lag switching is: artificial lag on push of a button.

Every match there is one or 2 or sometimes even 4-5 of them. They have normal ping, but in battles - even 1vs1 - their ping ping skyrockets. Typically the minimum is 300ish and some won't stop until the maximum - at least maximum displayed - of 999.
Practical experimenting showed the following:
- even one lagging player will cause lag for any other in the vicinity. the more players there are, the worse it'll get even tho other have all pings below 60 ms.
- this gives an unfair advantage to the high ping player. basically the lagging player has an extra 1-1.5 second of reaction time
- this will affect you even if you are directly hosting and playing. yes.. you'll be rubberbanding

Question:
#1 is there a way to setup dedicated servers to deny joining players above a certain ping and also kick them if the go above another value?
#2 is there is no such option, wouldn't it be possible to synch players to server positions?

Even a simple torrent seeding will work as a cheating..
I'd favorite any servers with protection against lag switching in a heartbeat :-)

Comments

  • TSADroneTSADrone Join Date: 2012-12-01 Member: 173807Members
    They should definitely fix how the netcode and interpolation between positions handles high ping players, it's totally broken.
  • OnosFactoryOnosFactory New Zealand Join Date: 2008-07-16 Member: 64637Members
    Bandita, the answer to your 2 questions is Yes and Yes.

    Number one is pretty easy, there are alot of poeple with scripting skills out there.

    Number 2 is even easier: Server side hit detection means *you have to interact with the game state defined in the servers frame of reference* ... this is bad, as you cannot communicate at much above .2c , i.e: You have to aim ahead or behind the target.

    In NS2, you aim at the target, which will sometimes do funky things as the server gently reminds everyone it needs to occasionally catch up with how everything is progressing.
  • BanditaBandita Join Date: 2013-01-18 Member: 180393Members
    Dark Minion:
    I'm happy that there are ways for adding the limitations. However if I understand it correctly it's not something built in. It would have to be scripted with the use of 3rd party tools. Or is there a full command/ syntax library up enabling this being done within the frames of the game itself?

    As for your suggestion at aiming ahead end such.. it's not working like that. It would need the ping appearing above the players in bright numbers. Otherwise it's a guess game.

    Today prior my post I've tested the phenomena and have even told players about it. They didn't mind until I've soloed with a skulk (carpace only) an exo (single gun) and 2 supporting marines - equipped with shotgun and flamethrower and jetpacks! - and got only killed trough 2 other marines spamming grenades at my spot..
    That really made them curse.

    Also.. im nowhere _that_ good.

    Regardless.. thank you for your answer. I'll try looking into this in more detail - especially as I'd lease a server for NS2 like that :-)
  • soccerguy243soccerguy243 Join Date: 2012-12-22 Member: 175920Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    explains why a 400pinger can go 4:1 ...
  • w3st420w3st420 Join Date: 2010-07-21 Member: 72615Members
    Lag switches......meet dedicated server.

    Just play on well admin'ed servers and there won't ever be an issue.
  • DimeinurearDimeinurear Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72955Members
    Best solution: auto-kick players who are above 200 ping.

    Instant kick for people who spike above 300. May be unfair to people with bad ping, but if you get 300 ping on a nearby server, you need to upgrade your internet.
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited January 2013
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- even one lagging player will cause lag for any other in the vicinity<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- this will affect you even if <b>you are directly hosting</b> and playing. yes.. you'll be rubberbanding<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->#2 is there is no such option, wouldn't it be possible to <b>synch players to server positions?</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Uh, what?

    NS2 is run off of dedicated servers. This isn't Xbox Live.
  • elodeaelodea Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=2067258:date=Jan 27 2013, 02:53 PM:name=soccerguy243)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (soccerguy243 @ Jan 27 2013, 02:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2067258"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->explains why a 400pinger can go 4:1 ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    oh crap, call the police!



    There are also other perfectly good explanations for this seemingly 'widespread' behaviour. It may have been a huge fps drop on their client due to bad game performance, or they may have a shaped internet speed which cannot handle the traffic spike incombat but is perfectly fine otherwise.
  • BanditaBandita Join Date: 2013-01-18 Member: 180393Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2067294:date=Jan 27 2013, 07:34 AM:name=Squishpoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squishpoke @ Jan 27 2013, 07:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2067294"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Uh, what?

    NS2 is run off of dedicated servers. This isn't Xbox Live.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    And it still works something like that. I'm used to roam servers with 3 other budies and when even 1 single lagger joins and goes into bang-bang mode we all start having lag issues. Yes.. on dedicated servers.

    Another nice one: yesterday my last match I've been playing as part of the marine team. Server statistics suggested perfect performance and a ping of 43. It's been the last spot. 5 Marines had constant 140+ pings - going up to 400 in battles hehe. I didn't really care if my team cheats or something, but I've noticed that launched grenades started flying after about 0.5 seconds and somehow they've appeared flying very slow. Traveling with about twice the speed of a very gently thrown paper plane. Now.. I don't know how this showed from other player's perspective, but I've got to tell it's been looking ridiculous. Especially the one where I've hit myself in the back accidentally with the help of my trusty jetpack..
    Btw my ping has never gone above 80 ms.
  • SanCoSanCo Join Date: 2012-08-18 Member: 155744Members
    edited January 2013
    You really think over the top statements are the best way to open a post? I for one find it very hard to take anything you say seriously after reading the first sentence in the second paragraph. I've seen 1 possible (note possible, not necessarily guilty) player lagswitching in 500h that I can remember. The human psych just love to find patterns where there is none.

    Also as a CCNA certified person (not the highest I know, but better understanding than average person), I've never heard of another players latency affecting other players in way of rubberbanding unless the lagswitch works in ways of DoS atks. Would be interesting to see how these things work, gonna research that a little, I think.
  • BanditaBandita Join Date: 2013-01-18 Member: 180393Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2067352:date=Jan 27 2013, 02:04 PM:name=SanCo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SanCo @ Jan 27 2013, 02:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2067352"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You really think over the top statements are the best way to open a post? I for one find it very hard to take anything you say seriously after reading the first sentence in the second paragraph. If for some reason what you say in that sentence is actually true, the problem is more likely to be at your side. I've seen 1 possible (note possible, not necessarily guilty) player lagswitching in 500h that I can remember.

    Also as a CCNA certified person (not the highest I know, but better understanding than average person), I've never heard of another players ping affecting other players in way of rubberbanding unless the lagswitch works in ways of DoS atks. Would be interesting to see how these things work, gonna research that a little, I think.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Very well. I'll make recordings of this and upload it to you tube next week. But I think you will dismiss it as it seems to be a matter of belief.
    Tell me: how can you prove lag switching in a way you would actually accept it? Constant monitoring of players via spectate mode and keeping tab pressed? Irreal statistics like 33 kills 2 deaths and 600+ ping and players running around while rubberbanding? You would even then claim it's a very skilled player and it must be my connection showing the rubberbanding.
    Or shall I again go and cheat and record it? Shall I tell others to do the same and see what statistical results it would produce?

    You claim to be an expert, so tell me how to prove this with only the symptomes available.

    Thanks!
  • DestherDesther Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165195Members
    edited January 2013
    Don't lag switches only work with client-side hit detection? You hit the switch, everybody stands still according to you, you shoot people then turn off the switch and your client tells everyone else who you just hit. This isn't how ns2 works is it?
  • BanditaBandita Join Date: 2013-01-18 Member: 180393Members
    edited January 2013
    I've found something that show similarities with what I see:
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUIFaLBccQA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUIFaLBccQA</a>
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    In that video, I don't see other players lagging out of control, only the skulk.

    I mean, I don't mean to assert anything, but based on my basic understanding of networking, what you describe would only be possible in peer-to-peer networking... not dedicated servers.
  • BanditaBandita Join Date: 2013-01-18 Member: 180393Members
    Yes. I'll reincoforce my point later with my own recordings.
  • meatmachinemeatmachine South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    <!--quoteo(post=2067354:date=Jan 27 2013, 06:17 AM:name=Bandita)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bandita @ Jan 27 2013, 06:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2067354"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Irreal statistics like 33 kills 2 deaths<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    lol, anyone with a half-decent aim and enough sense not to run off and commit suicide will get scores like this in pub matches quite easily
  • piratedavepiratedave Join Date: 2012-03-10 Member: 148561Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2067397:date=Jan 27 2013, 07:47 AM:name=meatmachine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (meatmachine @ Jan 27 2013, 07:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2067397"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lol, anyone with a half-decent aim and enough sense not to run off and commit suicide will get scores like this in pub matches quite easily<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    and anyone with half a brain and a bit of reading comprehension would of seen the part where he says "WITH 600 PING"
  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited January 2013
    I have also encountered ppl warping around like in that video every now and then... but i dont really think its something hacky going on.(seems to be just ######ty connections, with either high pings or pings jumping up and down very strangely)

    I have yet so see someone that has this going on and perfom well because of it.

    Sure they are hard to hit properly, but they also seem to have a hard time hitting you - so as long as you are not moving very predictable, you can dodge them forever.
  • petit_fromagepetit_fromage Join Date: 2004-11-11 Member: 32752Members
    Just like a few people have already mentioned, one guy lagging will not cause everyone else lag. This isn't the year 2000, laggers don't mess up servers like they used to.

    That video you showed was some guy who probably had high ping. As you can see it didn't affect anyone around him, and it certainly did not help him.

    If someone is warping around by you, and you start getting lag, the most likely thing happening is that the server tickrate is dipping very low. When the tickrate gets in the low teens you can see some pretty bad warping going on.
  • DavilDavil Florida, USA Join Date: 2012-08-14 Member: 155602Members, Constellation
    edited January 2013
    There's actually a command that simulates lag, if you guys want to test your theory rather than continue speculating I recommend you look that up on the NS2 wiki page under commands.

    4:1, 36:2, 40:0 these aren't impossible K/D ratios and the way interp is handled right now it does give a huge benefit to those with high pings. Even 100ms difference can make it very hard to dodge a marine that can shoot decently. Not really a bit secret to be honest.
  • ResRes Join Date: 2003-08-27 Member: 20245Members
    edited January 2013
    <!--quoteo(post=2067555:date=Jan 27 2013, 06:23 PM:name=Davil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Davil @ Jan 27 2013, 06:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2067555"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->.....4:1, 36:2, 40:0 these aren't impossible K/D ratios ....

    There's actually a command that simulates lag, if you guys want to test your theory rather than continue speculating I recommend you look that up on the NS2 wiki page under commands.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Those are very possible K/D ratios whether on Aliens or Marines in pub play.

    Also, it is not possible for someone else's lag to "spread" to the other players, unless it is actually the server itself that is lagging.

    I tested the command you are talking about and it doesn't actually do anything. Maybe cheats has to be on for it to work, but it certainly does not work on a dedicated server.
  • FloodinatorFloodinator [HBZ] Member Join Date: 2005-02-22 Member: 42087Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Not all are Lagswitching. some player lose alot of FPs in combat and somehow this affects also the Ping.
    F.e. try fpsmax 5 and see your Ping going up to 999
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