Why I avoid going fade

LilbitHeartlessLilbitHeartless Join Date: 2012-11-19 Member: 172517Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Shotguns hurt</div>Just had something happen yesterday that I wanted to share. I tend to avoid going fade because it feels like such a waste of res if I randomly die and this was that exact situation. Plus included is something else that can suck, a marine shooting you when it doesn't even look like he's facing you. I asked and they said they had weapons 2.
<a href="http://twitch.tv/lilbitheartless/c/1794533" target="_blank">Video</a>
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Comments

  • GORGEousGORGEous Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Members, NS2 Map Tester
    edited December 2012
    Playing fade without carapace and blink is very difficult. It's usually a waste of res.

    The other part you captured -- being shot when the marine isn't facing you is a common complaint with NS2. It is present among every mechanic in the game and causes a lot of frustration. Basically, in NS2 you have to predict your dodges. You're effectively living half a second in the past with what you see on your screen. Your opponent is shooting where you were half a second ago, not where you currently see yourself. It sucks.
  • JAMESEARLJONOSJAMESEARLJONOS Join Date: 2012-12-15 Member: 175155Members
    going regen on your fade is really dumb.
  • LilbitHeartlessLilbitHeartless Join Date: 2012-11-19 Member: 172517Members
    believe we had blink, I had already pecked at the marine on the right and ran out to regen, my plan was to shadow step, in swipe at him again, and then blink out.

    I don't tend to live long as fades because I stay in fights too long, so I have been working on jumping in and out of fights, which is why I got regen. Didn't want to run back to the hive after each fight. I actually didn't know carapace was a given for fades, I tend to grab it anyways because marines obviously hit hard but I liked the idea of regen for hit and runs.
  • LofungLofung Join Date: 2004-08-21 Member: 30757Members
    old news is so exciting.jpg
  • pendelum5pendelum5 Join Date: 2012-10-29 Member: 164317Members
    edited December 2012
    If you listen carefully, there was a third marine with a shotgun who pegged you in the back. Fades should not win 3v1 versus shotgun marines unless you gain the element of surprise, which you clearly did not have. I don't go fade either because they don't do well against buildings, and if your team can wait a few min you can go onos anyway.
  • RaZDaZRaZDaZ Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167331Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited December 2012
    Dunno what you expect tbh. You didn't have carapace, you didn't blink around even though you saw he had a shotty and finally you engaged into a fairly narrow corridor where he already knew where you were. You played greedy, a fade doing that deserves to die.

    Fades ain't good vs shotties but they shouldn't be imo. Good shotty > average or less fade. Amazing fade > amazing shotty in most situations. Most fade players tend to just hack away without blinking or SS around but good fades know when to do both. When it comes to 2 or more decent players especially if they have shotguns, don't even try to engage them if they know your location.

    Edit: Guy above also mentioned a 3rd player, it's not unlikely considering the corner wasn't checked.
  • WhiteWeaselWhiteWeasel Join Date: 2012-11-25 Member: 173197Members
    edited December 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2050525:date=Dec 23 2012, 11:16 PM:name=RaZDaZ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaZDaZ @ Dec 23 2012, 11:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050525"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You played greedy, a fade doing that deserves to die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I agree.
    Assuming your alone: A fade is an assassin class meant to kill:

    A: Marines that are harassing/scouting,
    B: A lone marine that is separated from his team and or doing A
    C: like a real life predator, pick off the injured, distracted, or secluded. Unless if you have teammates or they're unaware of you, a fade in more than 1v1 is bad idea.

    It's like a lion wildly charging into a the middle of a herd of elephants;<b> it will most likely get itself trampled to death. </b>
  • CatCopCatCop Join Date: 2003-08-28 Member: 20296Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=2050541:date=Dec 24 2012, 12:53 AM:name=WhiteWeasel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WhiteWeasel @ Dec 24 2012, 12:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050541"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's like a lion wildly charging into a the middle of a herd of elephants;<b> it will most likely get itself trampled to death. </b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah. I think fades are fine. And I don't think you need blink either. Jump->Shadow Step->Jump.

    Just like anything in life. You can't get greedy or people will rip you to shreds. Literally. The blood.
  • NeoRussiaNeoRussia Join Date: 2012-08-04 Member: 154743Members
    edited December 2012
    Fade is my favourite lifeform. I always use regen. Blink is nice but it's sort of a waste of resources because you never really NEED it per se and there are usually better things to get. It's just another tool that you can use.

    Carapace isn't all that useful compared to regen because the situations in which you would need it are probably the ones you should not have gotten into in the first place. Of course if you are the average hold blink down and w+m1 fade, you're probably better off getting it or even better just saving for onos.
  • MangoManMangoMan Join Date: 2003-12-28 Member: 24813Members
    Fades are a ######ing waste, and extremely frustrating to play. You kill a marine so what.. he respawns in 3 seconds.. you hurt a marine so what.. he heals at the nearby 10 res armory.

    God forbid you blink in to swipe a marine and a nearby friend turns the corner with a shotgun and 1 shots you.
  • MangoManMangoMan Join Date: 2003-12-28 Member: 24813Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2050502:date=Dec 23 2012, 10:49 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Dec 23 2012, 10:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050502"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Playing fade without carapace and blink is very difficult. It's usually a waste of res.

    The other part you captured -- being shot when the marine isn't facing you is a common complaint with NS2. It is present among every mechanic in the game and causes a lot of frustration. Basically, in NS2 you have to predict your dodges. You're effectively living half a second in the past with what you see on your screen. Your opponent is shooting where you were half a second ago, not where you currently see yourself. It sucks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Agreed..
  • CatCopCatCop Join Date: 2003-08-28 Member: 20296Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=2050571:date=Dec 24 2012, 03:17 AM:name=MangoMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MangoMan @ Dec 24 2012, 03:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050571"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fades are a ######ing waste, and extremely frustrating to play. You kill a marine so what.. he respawns in 3 seconds.. you hurt a marine so what.. he heals at the nearby 10 res armory.

    God forbid you blink in to swipe a marine and a nearby friend turns the corner with a shotgun and 1 shots you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Shotguns are the anti-fade. It's great. Without them fades would rule the world. I personally do decent as a fade, I would say they're my best life form. You just have to clock the hours and evaluate what went wrong when you die.
  • FappuchinoFappuchino Join Date: 2012-10-10 Member: 162008Members
    OP doesn't seem to realize that the line between Fade "sux" and "overpowered" is in a touchy place for this class. They're fine as they are, I don't kill Fades very often, quite the opposite when I run into one, and that's the way it should be.
  • TyrsisTyrsis Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8804Members
    Fades are in a good place right now. There are some people who use them that are just incredible. It's one of those classes that requires a lot of play to get the timing down. Try playing on some popular combat servers if you really want to see some disgusting fade play.
  • SixtyWattManSixtyWattMan Join Date: 2004-09-05 Member: 31404Members
    The problem with Fade is that he's only useful at picking off 1-2 lone Marines not in a base and once Marines get W3/A3 even that is dangerous. Blinking into 2 Marines with shotguns though? You were asking for that death.
  • w3st420w3st420 Join Date: 2010-07-21 Member: 72615Members
    Yup that will happen, try not to stop moving next time to avoid these situations. Also when marines reach the talent threshold where they really never miss, carapace is absolutely mandatory (which i think is why the fade's health system needs re-balancing). Regeneration should at least be plausible vs a good marine.

    Though for public matches regeneration is definitely a lot of fun
  • ItAxItAx Join Date: 2012-08-08 Member: 155046Members
    When marines get W3/A3 fades become NOT OK.
    UWE needs to bring back the focus from ns1 so that fades could be viable in the late game.
  • wirywiry Join Date: 2009-05-25 Member: 67479Members
    100 armor without carapace and making sure the animations work properly so that you at least have a chance to dodge the marine attacks.
  • VeNeMVeNeM Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Members
    edited December 2012
    i play fade because its so hilariously bad. onos is so redonkulously easy on the flipside tho. at least with fade you get that feeling that you could die at any moment. onos you just kill wave after wave of marines until they tech up or the game is over. fade is supposed to be mid level attacker, but dies in 2 hits and takes 4 hits to kill a rine lol.
  • DestherDesther Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165195Members
    Regen Fade is too weak vs shotgun since it can die to 2 100% hit shotgun shells.

    I only ever take Cara now on all lifeforms.
  • fivesevenfiveseven Join Date: 2012-11-26 Member: 173272Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2050570:date=Dec 24 2012, 03:14 PM:name=NeoRussia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoRussia @ Dec 24 2012, 03:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050570"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fade is my favourite lifeform. I always use regen. Blink is nice but it's sort of a waste of resources because you never really NEED it per se and there are usually better things to get. It's just another tool that you can use.

    Carapace isn't all that useful compared to regen because the situations in which you would need it are probably the ones you should not have gotten into in the first place. Of course if you are the average hold blink down and w+m1 fade, you're probably better off getting it or even better just saving for onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ive seen a few pre-blink fades that go regen, and ive never seen them do anything useful. Without blink and cara you cant pop/in out quick enough and take the expected hit, asuming your opponents can actually aim. A fade with blink and cara becomes very much an ns1 fade, and can dominate.
  • KasperleKasperle Join Date: 2004-09-29 Member: 31990Members
    edited December 2012
    Never use blink to engage marines, use shadowstep on the ground + jump before the speed gained by shadowstep fades away ( doublejump if needed ). Allways shadowstep jump jump into a position where u can directly hit the marine and then continue shadowstepping while swiping. I only use blink if i have to bail out and only when the surroundings prevent me from using shadowstep jump effectivly ( u can easily get stuck with that technique ).

    With shadowstep jump u fly around with a speed of 20 making it very hard for the marines to aim.

    A well played fade is nearly impossible to kill.

    *edit* crouch shadowstep jumping to really master the fade and cara would help too ;)
  • NeokenNeoken Bruges, Belgium Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27447Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=2050578:date=Dec 24 2012, 02:43 AM:name=Fappuchino)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fappuchino @ Dec 24 2012, 02:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050578"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->OP doesn't seem to realize that the line between Fade "sux" and "overpowered" is in a touchy place for this class. They're fine as they are, I don't kill Fades very often, quite the opposite when I run into one, and that's the way it should be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You have to consider the way fade scales from mid to late game, and the playercount of the server too. If you go fade early and have cara/regen, yeah, it can be pretty powerful and dominate the mid game. But when marines get to W3A3, just taking on a single (decent) marine can sometimes be a challenge, especially if he has a shottie. When marines start crawling into their shells, it gets even worse. Fade can be borderline useless in ending marine turtles, which is quite disappointing for a 50 res lifeform.

    In any case, I love playing fade, and balancing fades is a delicate matter, but it could certainly use a bit more survivability and a better late game (3rd hive ability) punch imo.
  • awwwsnapawwwsnap Join Date: 2012-09-20 Member: 160066Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2050498:date=Dec 23 2012, 08:43 PM:name=LilbitHeartless)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LilbitHeartless @ Dec 23 2012, 08:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050498"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just had something happen yesterday that I wanted to share. I tend to avoid going fade because it feels like such a waste of res if I randomly die and this was that exact situation. Plus included is something else that can suck, a marine shooting you when it doesn't even look like he's facing you. I asked and they said they had weapons 2.
    <a href="http://twitch.tv/lilbitheartless/c/1794533" target="_blank">Video</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    It wasn't that you simply got killed by someone who wasn't facing you. You had low armor, and didn't have carapace. You also shadow stepped in between 2 marines with shotguns. Without cara I believe it takes 2 full shotgun blasts to ko a fade. Put 2 and 2 together.

    Personally, I enjoy playing Fade and Lerk the most, but Fade could definitely use a buff to Vortex, or a different ability altogether.
  • xen32xen32 Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Fade could be OK if vortex, which is really useful, if you know how to use it, could be research at two hives. If you have 3 hives it's pretty much GG for marines, just a matter of time.

    See, if it was possible to vortex on 2 hives, when marines are swimming in res and got PGs all over the place, fade could be really useful. Vortex PG while your team take out powernode. Vortex exo, so your team can kill exos. Ninja into base during a marine push and vortex arms lab.

    But when you have 3 hives and vortex, you probably own more than 2/3 of the map, swimming in res and there are lots of oni in the field. Vortex becomes not much than a toy, because oni and gorges will rip their 2nd base to pieces in a matter of seconds. Vortex could be useful before that, but oh well.
  • umphreyumphrey Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165280Members
    I hope you guys are using celerity. If you are economical with blink/SS, energy is never an issue.
  • ItAxItAx Join Date: 2012-08-08 Member: 155046Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2050692:date=Dec 24 2012, 06:44 PM:name=umphrey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (umphrey @ Dec 24 2012, 06:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050692"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hope you guys are using celerity. If you are economical with blink/SS, energy is never an issue.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I almost always take celerity as a fade but if you want to use vortex then it's probably better to take adrenaline
  • NeoRussiaNeoRussia Join Date: 2012-08-04 Member: 154743Members
    edited December 2012
    cele as fade = why

    if you are playing properly the only time you should be on the ground for more than 2 steps is next to a hive, healing. Used to be good when celerity gave additional momentum, not anymore.

    Also, your attack out-damages shotguns point blank, even without carapace. This isn't even counting the additional advantage from lag. If you take 2 shotgun shots from point blank range you are probably doing something wrong. Actually, definitely doing something wrong. Even if you are simply in the position to take 2 lethal shots.
  • piratedavepiratedave Join Date: 2012-03-10 Member: 148561Members
    lol cele on a fade
  • ItAxItAx Join Date: 2012-08-08 Member: 155046Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2050702:date=Dec 24 2012, 07:06 PM:name=NeoRussia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoRussia @ Dec 24 2012, 07:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050702"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->cele as fade = why

    if you are playing properly the only time you should be on the ground for more than 2 steps is next to a hive, healing. Used to be good when celerity gave additional momentum, not anymore.

    Also, your attack out-damages shotguns point blank, even without carapace. This isn't even counting the additional advantage from lag. If you take 2 shotgun shots from point blank range you are probably doing something wrong. Actually, definitely doing something wrong. Even if you are simply in the position to take 2 lethal shots.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if you are playing properly the only time you should be on the ground for more than 2 steps is next to a hive<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That is actually how you should not play fade. Fade abilities require quite alot of energy so you have to conserve it and use it wiselly. If you blink around like a maniac, you will die pretty fast because you will drain your energy pool.
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