Marines can't win - two reasons

AM|Angry_AGAINAM|Angry_AGAIN Join Date: 2012-11-24 Member: 173061Members
edited December 2012 in NS2 General Discussion
1. They are harder to command and need much more micro managment.
2. Spark engine is totaly broken and kills every marine gameplay.


Nobody of my clanmates want to play a game that cant handle more than 8vs8 /6vs6 in siege moments with their BF3 Ultra settings Quadcore SLI rigs.
Thats all.

+a
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>edit: corrected topic title --Zaggy</i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
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Comments

  • VolcanoVolcano Join Date: 2011-07-27 Member: 112496Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=2050047:date=Dec 23 2012, 12:47 PM:name=AM|Angry_AGAIN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AM|Angry_AGAIN @ Dec 23 2012, 12:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050047"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. Spark engine is totaly broken and kills every marine gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Explain yourself
  • NolSinklerNolSinkler On the Clorf Join Date: 2004-02-15 Member: 26560Members, Constellation
    I'm so sorry about your clanmates.

    I suppose it's true that marines are harder to command and need more micro management. I'm not sure that Spark engine is broken and kills every marine gameplay. I've seen many marine gameplay work quite well. Many/every=some so I'm skeptical about your second argument.
  • KazelKazel Join Date: 2012-12-22 Member: 175939Members
    This thread can't win - two reasons

    1. It shows a lack of understanding of the game's intended mechanics.

    2. It shows absolutely no examples of anything it claims.

    It is easy to be vague. Anytime someone posts "no one wants a game that..." I cry on the inside.

    The marines are harder to command and do require more micro, so what?

    How exactly is the engine broken?
  • fivesevenfiveseven Join Date: 2012-11-26 Member: 173272Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2050054:date=Dec 23 2012, 10:39 AM:name=Kazel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kazel @ Dec 23 2012, 10:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050054"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This thread can't win - two reasons
    ...
    How exactly is the engine broken?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=NolSinkler)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NolSinkler)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure that Spark engine is broken and kills every marine gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I quite like the marine commander how it is, its still less micro than ns1, but COME ON. How the hell can people still think the marine gameplay isnt broken? Marines are about shooting things, which is harder with bad performance (harder than biting things). There are so many examples i can personally remember during beta, where a performance enhancing patch increased the marine win rate and thus required rebalancing. Thus it continues today, the game is balanced around bad performance albiet less so than during the beta.

    If we were to see vastly increasing performance i would expect marines would dominate aliens in their current state.
  • AM|Angry_AGAINAM|Angry_AGAIN Join Date: 2012-11-24 Member: 173061Members
    Can some guys pls post fraps video of ingame marine gameplay with settings on high on a 20player server?
    Pls with ingame fps!

    if we get so 20-40 vids we will see how good the engine runs on modern rigs with higher playercount.

    And guys 8vs8(7vs7) is only a really small market...
    today is "more players more fun"
  • VolcanoVolcano Join Date: 2011-07-27 Member: 112496Members, Constellation
    how about you do it
  • AM|Angry_AGAINAM|Angry_AGAIN Join Date: 2012-11-24 Member: 173061Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2050067:date=Dec 22 2012, 07:14 PM:name=Volcano)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Volcano @ Dec 22 2012, 07:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050067"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->how about you do it<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I can try, but my rig that can handle bf3 in medium on 64 metro will get massive fps drops down to 10 fps infight.
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    <!--quoteo(post=2050065:date=Dec 23 2012, 05:08 AM:name=AM|Angry_AGAIN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AM|Angry_AGAIN @ Dec 23 2012, 05:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050065"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can some guys pls post fraps video of ingame marine gameplay with settings on high on a 20player server?
    Pls with ingame fps!

    if we get so 20-40 vids we will see how good the engine runs on modern rigs with higher playercount.

    And guys 8vs8(7vs7) is only a really small market...
    today is "more players more fun"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Uhh, 8vs8 is actually pretty much the best teamsize. 6vs6 leaves marines too little building power, while 10vs10 and above makes marines able to build instantly and turtle over half the map. (Aliens don't scale with teamsize, since khammander expansion speed is always the same.)
  • fivesevenfiveseven Join Date: 2012-11-26 Member: 173272Members
    edited December 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2050065:date=Dec 23 2012, 11:08 AM:name=AM|Angry_AGAIN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AM|Angry_AGAIN @ Dec 23 2012, 11:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050065"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can some guys pls post fraps video of ingame marine gameplay with settings on high on a 20player server?
    Pls with ingame fps!

    if we get so 20-40 vids we will see how good the engine runs on modern rigs with higher playercount.

    And guys 8vs8(7vs7) is only a really small market...
    today is "more players more fun"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Only people with the most top-tier hardware can do what you ask, most people arent going to run fraps while playing. Yes the performance is not good in general while also being hit-and-miss for similar hardware.

    That said, the market is fine, NS is a niche game that require time and effort to learn. The people that would skip trying ns2 based on the player count probably arent the people that would keep playing anyway, so no harm done.


    <!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Uhh, 8vs8 is actually pretty much the best teamsize. 6vs6 leaves marines too little building power, while 10vs10 and above makes marines able to build instantly and turtle over half the map. (Aliens don't scale with teamsize, since khammander expansion speed is always the same.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    He's not saying we should be playing with more people, he's saying the design of the game should be aiming for greater numbers.
  • ritualsacrificeritualsacrifice Join Date: 2012-11-14 Member: 171148Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Marines don't suck, this just isn't BF3. Those skills don't transfer over to this game very well. You're dealing with completely different targets, and using guns that don't behave the same way at all.

    I win as marine all the time. You gotta be aggressive with them. They're ######ing SPACE MARINES. Not pansy boys.
  • SquishyOneSquishyOne Join Date: 2005-01-11 Member: 34963Members
    Marines can win...Try playing better? On pubs the only reason marines are currently losing is a complete lack of understanding the game and teamwork. A good com alone will win the game almost every time just by herding his marines in the proper directions. A good com with good marines should essentially never lose a pub as marines have several large advantages in larger games, say 18 plus people or so. You out spawn the aliens, should have higher kds, and can build phase gates for instant reinforcement. Use these things to easily overrun your enemies.
  • MavickMavick Join Date: 2012-11-07 Member: 168138Members
    How are you going to compare this game to BF3 anyway? There's almost nothing whatsoever the same between the two.
  • YMICrazyYMICrazy Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 165986Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2050062:date=Dec 22 2012, 10:01 PM:name=fiveseven)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fiveseven @ Dec 22 2012, 10:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050062"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If we were to see vastly increasing performance i would expect marines would dominate aliens in their current state.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I think so too. I can easily kill aliens when a match starts but once I am assaulting an enemy hive late game with 8-10 lifeforms defending it, Gorges using bile bomb my teamates within exos while others are spamming grenades and flamethrows as well has the whips, crags, hydras, infestation etc it becomes a slide slow that I cannot aim well in unless I spam grenades everywhere and hold I help the team. But they did state they are working on performance all the time so I have faith that the game will have higher performance as time goes on.
  • AM|Angry_AGAINAM|Angry_AGAIN Join Date: 2012-11-24 Member: 173061Members
    edited December 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2050077:date=Dec 22 2012, 07:28 PM:name=SquishyOne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SquishyOne @ Dec 22 2012, 07:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050077"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marines can win...Try playing better? On pubs the only reason marines are currently losing is a complete lack of understanding the game and teamwork. A good com alone will win the game almost every time just by herding his marines in the proper directions. A good com with good marines should essentially never lose a pub as marines have several large advantages in larger games, say 18 plus people or so. You out spawn the aliens, should have higher kds, and can build phase gates for instant reinforcement. Use these things to easily overrun your enemies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Wow cool story bro. Same for the alien side....
    I win allways as alien... (not really but 90%)
    If i play with some of my french buddys you got 9 minutes then we got 3 hives and some onos on the field and you screwed...
    Cool aye?

    You dont need to tell me that marines got the really cool features...
    Arctrain...atm without a counter ... Sponsored by broken INK
    Dualexos that oneshot everything what cost less then 50 pres.
    Jetpack rines with gl/flamer/shotgun which are able to egglock a hive and or finish the entired alien upgrades.
    And Guns that need 1,2 seconds direkt fire to kill everything that is less worth than 75pres.

    But that dont help you if your PC runs on 10 fps wile fighting!

    READ IT FROM MY LIPS.
    Bad performance =/= lack of skill

    So as marine you fight against a f.cking bad performance + the harder micromanagment of your troops.



    For the guys who didnt read or understand..
    The compare between BF3 and NS2 are the RIGS and the system performance.
    Building a game for a hardcore playerbase of 1000 players with only 10% that will and can afford a 3000$ rig for Ns2 is just stupid...
  • ritualsacrificeritualsacrifice Join Date: 2012-11-14 Member: 171148Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I run the game on a dell xps 8300 + 550ti. That setup will run you somewhere between $700-$800. I have the cheap model with the 3.0ghz 2320. I get 90fps early game after the latest patch, and the lowest it's gotten is 45ish... and that was a 24 player server with flamethrower vs lerk spore wars going on inside a hive with a bunch of crags. You most definitely do not need a $3000 rig to run this game acceptably any more. Performance does need to improve, don't get me wrong, but it's not nearly as bad as it was a month ago.
  • Samus1111111Samus1111111 Join Date: 2012-08-07 Member: 154930Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=2050069:date=Dec 22 2012, 09:19 PM:name=AM|Angry_AGAIN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AM|Angry_AGAIN @ Dec 22 2012, 09:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050069"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can try, but my rig that can handle bf3 in medium on 64 metro will get massive fps drops down to 10 fps infight.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    If you're dropping to 10 fps, then you don't have as good a comp as you think you do.

    I run the game with maxed settings and I run at about 50 fps normally and drop to 25-30 in large fights. And by large fights I mean most of both teams in the same place with almost every single particle effect possible going off.
  • rhombusrhombus Lerk Queen Join Date: 2011-06-23 Member: 106055Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2012
    What I don't get is that you automatically complain about performance when you have the game jacked up higher than a kite. Maybe lowering the settings may help in more ways than one.

    The devs have said and will continue to say that they're working on performance. This isn't a AAA title like BF3 who has a ###### ton of man power to work on increasing the performance. UWE has maybe 2-3 people working on it. Essentially you're comparing apples to oranges.

    Come back in a few months then if you're getting your panties in a twist because you don't want to lower your game settings. A lot of things are broken with this game, but doesn't mean that they don't know it or aren't working on it.

    Also: This game is CPU heavy. Start there instead of your graphics cards.
  • thefonzthefonz Join Date: 2011-06-22 Member: 105847Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2050082:date=Dec 22 2012, 11:11 PM:name=AM|Angry_AGAIN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AM|Angry_AGAIN @ Dec 22 2012, 11:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050082"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Building a game for a hardcore playerbase of 1000 players with only 10% that will and can afford a 3000$ rig for Ns2 is just stupid...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    My rig is a year old, built for about $1200, runs NS2 at about 60 FPS normally, dropping to 40 in combat. Ill post a video if is sates your anger/disbelief. (which it won't)

    To address your points(?)... Yes, NS2 is rather harsh on performance, especially in combat. The devs are working hard. Every build, I've been hearing players talking about how much better it feels. Is it perfect, no. many games that slough on for 50+ minutes start to kick my rigs or the servers ass. Is it good, yes. I highly suggest playing on a decent server with an 18 player cap max. I hope you stick around, I think that once you get the feel for how NS2 plays, you'll enjoy the game much more.

    Seriously, its not BF3. It does not play like BF3. Please don't bring BF3 up, it makes me sad I spent my money. That game, while fun, didn't have the ability to remain fun. Played for a month or so. Been playing NS2 for over a year now with no signs of stopping. Oh, I'm a pubber too. Never even played a gather before.
  • StardogStardog Join Date: 2004-10-25 Member: 32448Members
    edited December 2012
    How about turning your settings DOWN. BF3 is made for 2005 hardware. You have no divine right to play a modern PC-only game on the highest settings, and especially high resolution.

    The best team wins.
  • d0ped0gd0ped0g Join Date: 2003-05-25 Member: 16679Members
    Marines CAN win

    /thread
  • slimebuckslimebuck Join Date: 2012-11-30 Member: 173748Members
    This post is halarious, every single review of the game I seen says marines OP'ed.

    SOOOO many reviews say they dis like being alien due to how much harder it is.

    I feel all these reviewers only played for a week and ALL on PUBLIC servers, and thats why they feel this way.

    When I first started, in Public games it seemed like 80% of alien players didn't listen to commander, didn't attack right targets, didn't play as a team, most that I saw where just "having fun" and not really competitively playing.

    When your team sucks, no matter how good you are, you are screwed.. so if you are join random PUB games, then there is a chance you will get teams that don't do squat.


    I found when I started as marine I got slaughtered constantly, but then I figured out the problem. I was still trying to play like the last FPS I played (CS:GO) and I realized this game may have guns, but PLAYS %100 different than any other shooter.

    You are probably trying to play like BF3 without thinking of it, like crouching to get better aim, pressing up against walls and corners to avoid gun fire, always looking where people would be walking, and not at the roof and vents, ect ect

    Once I started PRE FIRING everywhere (when I knew something was in the area) jumping and strifing and making unpredictable movements to make it hard to get bit, and taking advantage of areas on the map that gave me an advantage made me 10 times better over night.
  • SquishyOneSquishyOne Join Date: 2005-01-11 Member: 34963Members
    /shrug, sure you can do those things on aliens if you're way better than marines. Doesn't say anything about balance. If marines are getting dominated on pubs its because they're playing completely wrong or the other team is far superior. Generally at the moment marines are playing completely wrong. Drop a 2nd ip, rush phase tech, and dominate.




    <!--quoteo(post=2050082:date=Dec 22 2012, 11:11 PM:name=AM|Angry_AGAIN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AM|Angry_AGAIN @ Dec 22 2012, 11:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050082"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow cool story bro. Same for the alien side....
    I win allways as alien... (not really but 90%)
    If i play with some of my french buddys you got 9 minutes then we got 3 hives and some onos on the field and you screwed...
    Cool aye?

    You dont need to tell me that marines got the really cool features...
    Arctrain...atm without a counter ... Sponsored by broken INK
    Dualexos that oneshot everything what cost less then 50 pres.
    Jetpack rines with gl/flamer/shotgun which are able to egglock a hive and or finish the entired alien upgrades.
    And Guns that need 1,2 seconds direkt fire to kill everything that is less worth than 75pres.

    But that dont help you if your PC runs on 10 fps wile fighting!

    READ IT FROM MY LIPS.
    Bad performance =/= lack of skill

    So as marine you fight against a f.cking bad performance + the harder micromanagment of your troops.



    For the guys who didnt read or understand..
    The compare between BF3 and NS2 are the RIGS and the system performance.
    Building a game for a hardcore playerbase of 1000 players with only 10% that will and can afford a 3000$ rig for Ns2 is just stupid...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  • slimebuckslimebuck Join Date: 2012-11-30 Member: 173748Members
    I seriously don't get what everyone is crying about preformace for...

    I have installed this on my friends 2.6ghz quad core geforce 550 only 6 gigs of ram and it ram TOTALLY fine, no issues at all, at CLOSE to max graphics. (no AO)

    only time I have seen performance drop was because I entered a server that was empty and someone made dozens of whips and made the just run all over the map non stop...
  • AM|Angry_AGAINAM|Angry_AGAIN Join Date: 2012-11-24 Member: 173061Members
    edited December 2012
    Guys, i spoken to friends with GTX560TI SLI on differend highend CPUs and they notice the FPS drops /hitreg/ laggs too.

    So get out, make your clips of 18+ player servers and upload them to youtube and enjoy the fps drops, the hitregg issues, the laggs and then grap a beer and say how cool homebrewed engines are while there are engines out which allready contains 5000h of manpower development
  • VolcanoVolcano Join Date: 2011-07-27 Member: 112496Members, Constellation
    You can say that the devs could of used a different engine but at the time of starting the project they couldn't afford it. I'm sure someone can go into depth about it but that's really reason behind doing their own engine
  • slimebuckslimebuck Join Date: 2012-11-30 Member: 173748Members
    well if the problems are too much for you, quit and go back to BF3.


    Simple as that
  • CanucckCanucck Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72987Members
    mines --> a1 --> jp --> sg --> gg
  • VolcanoVolcano Join Date: 2011-07-27 Member: 112496Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=2050112:date=Dec 23 2012, 03:53 PM:name=Canucck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canucck @ Dec 23 2012, 03:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050112"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->mines --> a1 --> sg --> gg<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    fixed
  • rhombusrhombus Lerk Queen Join Date: 2011-06-23 Member: 106055Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2050106:date=Dec 23 2012, 12:02 AM:name=AM|Angry_AGAIN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AM|Angry_AGAIN @ Dec 23 2012, 12:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050106"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->18+ player<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    There's your problem. Also would like to know the settings on these computers including full specs of each of their PC's just to show how much of a ###### you're being about a game that's still in development. Lower your settings, play on a server that is less than 18 players (balance is broken on anything higher than this (what little balance there is)) or find another game because it's going to be like this for a while.
  • NeoRussiaNeoRussia Join Date: 2012-08-04 Member: 154743Members
    settings don't really do anything when the game barely uses your GPU.
This discussion has been closed.