Add Jumping Penalty To Marines
Jarl Ballin'
Join Date: 2012-11-25 Member: 173203Members
Join Date: 2012-11-25 Member: 173203Members
There has been a huge problem with this. The camera view from a skulk is very low. Making it very hard to pursue a marine who is spamming the jump button. As of right now there is no jump penalty. You can just mash your space bar over and over to avoid danger. It wouldn't be such a problem if glancing bites weren't true. Making it even worse. In Natural Selection 1 there was a rather large penalty for jumping as a marine. Instantly slowing you down for a second or two until your next jump. The way it is now is ridiculous. Marines just spam jump and avoid certain death. It doesn't require any skill to do. It doesn't mess up their aim hardly because they're looking down on a target which makes it a lot easier to hit as opposed to the skulk who has to look up and as soon as a marine jumps he disappears off of your screen. And keep doing so, over and over and over. It honestly has nothing to do with skill and needs to be looked at. In Counter-Strike 1.6 being able to bunnyhop is considered a bug. So they added jump penalty. You should do the same.
Comments
I don't know what servers you're playing on but I play on official non-modded and no it doesn't. If it does it's such a tiny implement that it doesn't even matter. It needs to be tweaked a lot more.
...It's an official mechanic and it's extremely noticeable. Try playing Marines once in a while and see for yourself. They also take a heavy movement penalty when trying to walk backwards.
They don't. I have no problem bouncing around as a marine. I even laugh while I'm doing it because it's so far-fetched. The air acceleration is ridiculous. Literally all I do is hold W+D or A+W (whichever direction I wan't to dodge in) and it's like a marine pinball bouncing all over the place.
I'd prefer if regular marine jumping height was lowered, but jumping from a crouched position (ctrl + space) would allow higher jumps for jumping on objects, while sacrificing horizontal speed.
I'd prefer if regular marine jumping height was lowered, but jumping from a crouched position (ctrl + space) would allow higher jumps for jumping on objects, while sacrificing horizontal speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like that idea, solves the issue rather nicely. They can still jump high but from a crouch and crouching reduces horizontal movement.
Marines are too maneuverable in battle and this solve that without impeding out of battle.
There is a fatigue system that prevents constant jumping, but with good timing it can be ignored. Personally I think its perfect. Get a good rhythm and you can dodge alot of newbie skulks.
Seriously if you have problems killing a marine thats jumping, get better.
There has been a huge problem with this. The camera view from a marine is very high. Making it very hard to pursue a skulk while spamming the jump button.
Makes no sense. Everyone knows there's an advantage at looking down upon an opponent rather then looking up.
And a bouncing skulk is suddenly at a disadvantage because they can't stop the bounce to catch the marine. Which turns into a crazy dance filled with bullets and unregistered bites.
This.
If a marine's already very limited jumping ability is making it impossible for you to hit him, then you're doing something wrong. Their dodging capability is practically non existent, and if it's really that difficult for you as it is now, then nothing short of the marine standing completely still will help you get your kill.
This "marine jumping is OP" was thrown around so much in the forums during the beta that I'm surprised it hasn't resulted in the marines being permanently glued to the floor. Some people would have only been happy if it were this way.
Granted, I heard there are still some outstanding issues (although they might be fixed now) that cause skulks to glide under a jumping marines feet when they shouldn't, but as I understand this is an issue with collisions, rather than jump height being set too high.
EDIT: and yes. As many people have pointed out, there is already a jump penalty.
This.
If a marine's already very limited jumping ability is making it impossible for you to hit him, then you're doing something wrong. Their dodging capability is practically non existent, and if it's really that difficult for you as it is now, then nothing short of the marine standing completely still will help you get your kill.
This "marine jumping is OP" was thrown around so much in the forums during the beta that I'm surprised it hasn't resulted in the marines being permanently glued to the floor. Some people would have only been happy if it were this way.
Granted, I heard there are still some outstanding issues (although they might be fixed now) that cause skulks to glide under a jumping marines feet when they shouldn't, but as I understand this is an issue with collisions, rather than jump height being set too high.
EDIT: and yes. As many people have pointed out, there is already a jump penalty.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Incorrect. While holding sprint and jumping forward and to the side you achieve an insane amount of air acceleration and your jumps to not slow.
I believe both you and he, are stating opinions. I don't see how you can claim he is incorrect.
Don't nerf marine jump to make skulk easier to play.
If skulk needs help killing marines (which it doesn't) buff skulks.
A game where everything gets nerfed to oblivion ends up being awful.
There used to be a bug that allowed you to bypass all jump penalties if you had low fps. Afaik it was fixed, but if this is really what you are experiencing, it sounds like it might be back? Is this the case - do you have footage of this pinball bouncing jumping?
We should be getting rid of mechanics that create randomness, not encouraging them. And Rine hoping encourages it to a degree.
There is a reason almost all other contemporary shooters, including CS, have completely got rid of any sort of hoping mechanics in battles. It doesn't reward players based on the skills that matter most, but instead on those who can master a gimmick, as I consider it at least. I don't mind a single hop around corners, but just spamming it in battles is to much, even with the current fatigue setup.
Now que all the hardcore NS1 players piling on me. :)
I'll take a demo and upload it. I was playing yesterday and I ###### you not. Dodged 3 skulls for a total of 13 seconds. Just by hopping around and using the momentum of previous hops + sprint. It's stupid.
Besides marines bouncing around like ping pong balls when under attack looks really ridiculous. Plus there's the "aiming when jumping" ordeal.
To those who say "learn to play skulk" I say: learn to aim as a marine so you don't have to dodge.
I totally agree, everytime a marine jumps they should take 75 damage...
It would totally solve the problem of marines utalising one of their movement mechanics in combat.
Marines have two jumps before they are gimped. Yes, the jump can be combined with Sprint for some extra distance, but the delay in shooting is usually not worth the effort unless the environment supports the situation, e.g Sprint Jumping onto a nearby box or ledge as a Skulk is advancing on you, and then jumping again to gain the height advantage will usually only give you an extra second against a player who is aware of your movement, and that's if you saw him coming. There's even a delay in the time it takes for Sprint to "cooldown" before you are able to shoot again. All of these millisecond movements add up in a fight and there's no point turning the Marines into immobile meatbags just because you can't kill them running at them head on.
Also, it's funny that you mention glancing bites, because I actually think it's way too easy to land hits which would've been misses before glancing bites were added, making skulk play too easy in pubs. Refer to this thread about that: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=125256" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=125256</a>
Also, it's funny that you mention glancing bites, because I actually think it's way too easy to land hits which would've been misses before glancing bites were added, making skulk play too easy in pubs. Refer to this thread about that: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=125256" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=125256</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Glancing bites were added after the reduction to the damage cone. So removing glancing bites and returning the damage cone to it's original size would be better.
It would totally solve the problem of marines utalising one of their movement mechanics in combat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for adding a critically thought out idea to the discussion. You totally convinced me of your viewpoint. Keep sharing those brilliant gems of knowledge.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To those who say "learn to play skulk" I say: learn to aim as a marine so you don't have to dodge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lastly, I completely agree here. It is a two way street. Apparently you need to learn to aim better so skulks can't get on you considering you're completely a ranged unit with every advantage in the book when engaging at a distance.
This is just silly. You need to play NS more. The maps are designed to give aliens a helping hand. It is crucial for alien players to learn the maps so they can ambush and kill marines. Also you need to learn to wall jump as a skulk.
Adding some kind of jump penalty to marines is just absurd and downright asinine. If you are close enough to a marine that he can jump as a valid maneuver and you just can't kill him again and again, then you are a crappy skulk. That’s it. You need to get better.
The thread is absurd. By the time the skulk is close enough to the marine that jumping matters for the marine, the skulk already has all the advantages.