A plea to server owners to lower player slot count

invTempestinvTempest Join Date: 2003-03-02 Member: 14223Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<div class="IPBDescription">18+ slots is just not feasible (or fun) in the current build</div>Server admins/owners hear me out -

In order to give people the best playing experience you possibly can with the current patch and the foreseeable future, you should really look into lowering the slot count on your server(s) until big performance increases are put into the game. This will help keep the current player base active, and it will also create a much more fun atmosphere to get people back into NS2.

I have been collecting stats on server performance from May of 2011 until now and the current level of performance is on par with what it was nearly 10 months ago. Instead of fighting with the performance, we can make changes to make the game better *right now* by lowering player count to a more reasonable level - Just because 18 slots worked in the past doesn't mean we have to stick to it now.

I have been doing some testing and have found that the jump from 16 slots to 18 slots puts a huge amount of extra strain on the server which leads to the very low tick rates. The jump from 14 to 16 isn't as bad but there still is a noticeable performance drop. The sweet spot for a core i5 2500k 4.4-4.5 Ghz server seems to be 15-16.

Before build 196, most operators ran with 14-16 slots but then performance improved a little bit so most servers increased to 18 to even 20 slots in some cases. However, since performance has been lacking the past few builds, it would be most beneficial to the community if the popular servers would lower the player count to keep the server tick rates at a more reasonable level.

Not only is this in the best interest of the community, it is probably in the best interest of both the server operators and any new players who's first impression of the game may be tarnished by the current level of server performance.
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Comments

  • PersianImm0rtalPersianImm0rtal Join Date: 2010-12-02 Member: 75414Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester
    Thank you! I totally agree with you tempest I am glad to hear I am not the only one who wants this to happen. 18 player and 20 player servers are just not fun with the current performance.
  • WheeeeWheeee Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Members, Reinforced - Shadow
  • rantologyrantology Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    +1

    Performance for me has gotten worse in the past ~5 patches, it's to the point where combined with the increasingly poor server performance in all the 18-22 player pub servers I just can't play the game at all on the current build. God only knows why people have the player counts set so high, I've never been on a single full server where the game was not lagging considerably due to the server less than 10 minutes in.
  • GORGEousGORGEous Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Members, NS2 Map Tester
    Definitely agree. The D|S server admins have always tried to keep the player count at 16 max. The game plays better. The server works better.
  • BiglinesBiglines Join Date: 2003-12-07 Member: 24094Members, Constellation
    Part of this is also for the players tbh, I keep seeing people playing on crappy servers (that get tickrates <10 with 14 slots etc), just leave the server and actually join a good server instead. If people keep playing bad servers, the server admins will keep thinking "meh, they're still playing so ###### it".
  • Laosh'RaLaosh'Ra Join Date: 2011-12-09 Member: 137232Members
    this is not only about performance, the game is balanced around 6v6 or 7v7 (see competitive forum) so even though other numbers work, they might not work out as well as a 14-or-16-player-game...
  • JuCCiJuCCi Join Date: 2011-08-08 Member: 114961Members, NS2 Map Tester
  • SecuritySecurity Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33133Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    I fully agree with the OP. Right now, slots should be at a maximum of 16, better 14.
  • WiltdogWiltdog Join Date: 2011-05-26 Member: 100980Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1929186:date=Apr 24 2012, 05:42 AM:name=JuCCi-PuCCi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JuCCi-PuCCi @ Apr 24 2012, 05:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929186"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Done. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Awesome! Thanks JuCCi! I Love the All-In servers due to its great ping and close proximity (Cali servers? Im in Colorado and it pings wonderfully)
  • JuCCiJuCCi Join Date: 2011-08-08 Member: 114961Members, NS2 Map Tester
    Chicago servers threw NS2servers.com

    And im glad you like our servers :D
  • eh?eh? Join Date: 2012-03-03 Member: 147997Members
    Cool, interesting you left the noob server with 18 slots though.
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    Well done, almost all the servers in the list now have only 16 player slots :)
  • TheIcarusKidTheIcarusKid Join Date: 2012-03-23 Member: 149258Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1929186:date=Apr 24 2012, 04:42 AM:name=JuCCi-PuCCi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JuCCi-PuCCi @ Apr 24 2012, 04:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929186"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Done. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    We love you Jucci!
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    already did this last week :-P
    i had the same exact viewpoint
  • SideOfBeefSideOfBeef Join Date: 2012-03-04 Member: 148064Members
    edited April 2012
    +1

    The added bonus is that we end up with a greater number of active servers, meaning open slots occur more often and I can actually play the game.
  • paradoxumparadoxum United Kingdom Join Date: 2012-03-05 Member: 148193Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1929181:date=Apr 24 2012, 03:57 AM:name=Laosh'Ra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Laosh'Ra @ Apr 24 2012, 03:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929181"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the game is balanced around 6v6 or 7v7 (see competitive forum)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    that doesn't necessarily mean the devs are balancing it around that many players, unless you know more? is it in the 'design doc'?
  • FloodinatorFloodinator [HBZ] Member Join Date: 2005-02-22 Member: 42087Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    14-16 slots are ok, but alot of Servers should even lower it to 10-12.

    If all admins would adjust the playernumbers to the performance of the CPU we would have servers that can hold 30 ticks for much longer. Even if it is 5vs5 better have 25 ticks than 4 in a 8vs8.
  • ellnicellnic Join Date: 2010-07-19 Member: 72559Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    agree, Bigger games are really working too well atm imo. 16 slots should be the maximum at this current time
  • Laosh'RaLaosh'Ra Join Date: 2011-12-09 Member: 137232Members
    edited April 2012
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that doesn't necessarily mean the devs are balancing it around that many players, unless you know more? is it in the 'design doc'?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    no, but they had "14 stations" at PAX (watch the video around 12:00). maybe they had technical/logistical limits there but i don't think so. in any case it means that 7v7 is a reasonable matchup from the perspective of the devs. would be interesting to know the amount of players in internal playtests whenever the devs want to "simulate" a real match.
  • wirywiry Join Date: 2009-05-25 Member: 67479Members
    It probably just means that they can have 14 people on a public server before it starts lagging like hell. :)
  • WilsonWilson Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72867Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1929645:date=Apr 25 2012, 04:40 PM:name=Floodinator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Floodinator @ Apr 25 2012, 04:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929645"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->14-16 slots are ok, but alot of Servers should even lower it to 10-12.

    If all admins would adjust the playernumbers to the performance of the CPU we would have servers that can hold 30 ticks for much longer. Even if it is 5vs5 better have 25 ticks than 4 in a 8vs8.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I agree. I always have the most fun with only a few players on the server because hit reg and performance is so much better.
  • Crunch07Crunch07 Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143746Members
    Hey guys,


    i have 3 Server´s up:

    1x 16 Slot (mY-eSp 1 Natural Selection 2)
    1x 14 Slot (mY-eSp 2 Natural Selection 2)
    1x 12 Slot (mY-eSp 3 Natural Selection 2)

    The Server runs great with max Ticrate (32)


    Have fun and see you soon!
  • FloodinatorFloodinator [HBZ] Member Join Date: 2005-02-22 Member: 42087Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Wasn't the 32 Ticks a bug? Because IIRC 30 Ticks are the max.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited April 2012
    18 players is currently quite hard to do even on an i5 2500k @ 4.6Ghz. The engine/lua link still needs loads of optimisations, I'm inclined to say that in the current state 16 players is more playable compared to 18... 18 was fine a few builds back though, let's hope there's going to be some serious gains in terms off performance the next month/2month or so...


    <!--quoteo(post=1929669:date=Apr 25 2012, 04:47 PM:name=Laosh'Ra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Laosh'Ra @ Apr 25 2012, 04:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929669"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->no, but they had "14 stations" at PAX (watch the video around 12:00). maybe they had technical/logistical limits there but i don't think so. in any case it means that 7v7 is a reasonable matchup from the perspective of the devs. would be interesting to know the amount of players in internal playtests whenever the devs want to "simulate" a real match.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    6v6 holds true for NS, because it was balanced around those values due to the asymmetrical resource system. The new symmetrical resource system should make it possible to remove this limit. The devs are aiming at not having theoretical max player cap for balance. This is still quite dependant on map size of course, but the new resource system should be able to scale quite well when the game is feature complete and the real balancing can start :)


    6v6 or perhaps the new 7v7, will always be the best amount for competitive matches. For some clans it can be quite hard to get more players then 6 or 7 together at the same time at the same place :P
  • Crunch07Crunch07 Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143746Members
    My Server´s run on a i7 2600k@4,8GHZ with a 100mbit down/upload connection

    when i start all 3 server´s the have a 31,7 - 32 ticrate ;)
  • MOOtantMOOtant Join Date: 2010-06-25 Member: 72158Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1929134:date=Apr 24 2012, 07:18 AM:name=invTempest)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (invTempest @ Apr 24 2012, 07:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929134"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Server admins/owners hear me out -

    In order to give people the best playing experience you possibly can with the current patch and the foreseeable future, you should really look into lowering the slot count on your server(s) until big performance increases are put into the game. This will help keep the current player base active, and it will also create a much more fun atmosphere to get people back into NS2.

    I have been collecting stats on server performance from May of 2011 until now and the current level of performance is on par with what it was nearly 10 months ago. Instead of fighting with the performance, we can make changes to make the game better *right now* by lowering player count to a more reasonable level - Just because 18 slots worked in the past doesn't mean we have to stick to it now.

    I have been doing some testing and have found that the jump from 16 slots to 18 slots puts a huge amount of extra strain on the server which leads to the very low tick rates. The jump from 14 to 16 isn't as bad but there still is a noticeable performance drop. The sweet spot for a core i5 2500k 4.4-4.5 Ghz server seems to be 15-16.

    Before build 196, most operators ran with 14-16 slots but then performance improved a little bit so most servers increased to 18 to even 20 slots in some cases. However, since performance has been lacking the past few builds, it would be most beneficial to the community if the popular servers would lower the player count to keep the server tick rates at a more reasonable level.

    Not only is this in the best interest of the community, it is probably in the best interest of both the server operators and any new players who's first impression of the game may be tarnished by the current level of server performance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Instead of your wall of text I have much simpler solution. Add tickrate as some clear indicator in server list in the client. It can look like wireless transmit power indicators - green/yellow/red bars. It's important to make it clear that low tickrate affects gameplay far more than slightly higher latency.
  • DghelneshiDghelneshi Aims to surpass Fana in post edits. Join Date: 2011-11-01 Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited April 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1929736:date=Apr 25 2012, 09:51 PM:name=MOOtant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MOOtant @ Apr 25 2012, 09:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929736"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Instead of your wall of text I have much simpler solution. Add tickrate as some clear indicator in server list in the client. It can look like wireless transmit power indicators - green/yellow/red bars. It's important to make it clear that low tickrate affects gameplay far more than slightly higher latency.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    "Instead of providing for fun gameplay for people I propose telling people when gameplay is not fun. Besides, I don't like to read."
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1929746:date=Apr 25 2012, 03:16 PM:name=Dghelneshi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dghelneshi @ Apr 25 2012, 03:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929746"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Instead of providing for fun gameplay for people I propose telling people when gameplay is not fun. Besides, I don't like to read."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Basically.
  • RanemanRaneman Join Date: 2010-01-07 Member: 69962Members
    I haven't noticed any performance issues on larger servers. Are you guys running this on your Amiga or something?
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1929755:date=Apr 25 2012, 03:39 PM:name=Raneman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Raneman @ Apr 25 2012, 03:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929755"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I haven't noticed any performance issues on larger servers. Are you guys running this on your Amiga or something?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    >discussing netcode
    >references client hardware
    >...
    >?
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