Xenocide planned?

thefonzthefonz Join Date: 2011-06-22 Member: 105847Members
<div class="IPBDescription">you took my devour, please dont take my xeno</div>Exactly as the title states, is Xenocide coming to NS2?

I could see it becoming a problem with the egg spawning system (a couple xenoing skulks use up all the eggs). But as a 3rd hive ability I would expect the aliens to have plenty of eggs.

Also, a teaser.

Later this week, I hope (spare time is rare for me lately), I will post another Devour thread. Yes, another devour thread. The difference is I would like it to be a very organized and well though out discussion. So if you want to be part of that, pro or con, this is a heads up to start your thinking. I will try to set the tone with my OP and I hope people will reply in kind. That means I would NOT like to see a bunch of short, silly, and frankly useless comments of yes/no or any simply general ######.

The end goal of this thread would be to present solid ideas (NOT demands) to the devs about implementing devour, at least in the beta to try it out.

<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->AND/OR<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

Help explain to the devour wanters like me why devour is not a good idea and should not be implemented.

I feel the community is very divided on this issue with no clear majority.
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Comments

  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members
    It'll be in the next build, or the one after that
    <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/progress" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/progress</a>
  • ArkantiArkanti pub baddie Join Date: 2011-07-22 Member: 111781Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2012
    Xenocide is already a third hive ability, it's your third weapon as a skulk. Once you activate it you get a three second count down before exploding.
  • AegisXIAegisXI Join Date: 2012-02-11 Member: 144985Members
    edited February 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1907927:date=Feb 28 2012, 02:57 PM:name=Arkanti)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arkanti @ Feb 28 2012, 02:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907927"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Xenocide is already a third hive ability, it's your third weapon as a skulk. Once you activate it you get a three second count down before exploding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    What? I dont remember it being implanted in the game yet
  • thefonzthefonz Join Date: 2011-06-22 Member: 105847Members
    Sweet, thanks for the info.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    Xenocide is a really dumb ability, if your only way to keep skulks competitive is to allow them to kill people when they inevitably die, you need to rethink skulks.
  • KalabalanaKalabalana Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22859Members
    Xenocide feels underpowered. I haven't tried it in the competitive scene, but I imagine it will be the same.

    I'd say increase the damage, but reduce skulk health to increase likelihood of the ability being denied.
  • GadxGadx Join Date: 2003-03-22 Member: 14788Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    I doubt the damage on it is final by any means. In NS1 it did quite a bit of damage with leap, I am sure it will be viable late game.
  • John BlackthorneJohn Blackthorne Join Date: 2012-02-23 Member: 147245Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1907945:date=Feb 28 2012, 03:49 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Feb 28 2012, 03:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907945"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Xenocide feels underpowered. I haven't tried it in the competitive scene, but I imagine it will be the same.

    I'd say increase the damage, but reduce skulk health to increase likelihood of the ability being denied.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->



    Just resonating what has been said on many other threads, mid-late game the skulk needs more going on for it not less health or making it weaker
  • PricePrice Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
    yes its already in, i only noitce because of a bug(?)
    the first time i hear it, i guess its a bug, because the screaming sound is like the hive crying sound.
    never used it but i saw a lot of skulks exploding next to me, ill never die about that ^^
  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Members
    edited February 2012
    I forget, how much armor does LV.3 armor upgrade give? Since Xenocide's damage type is Puncture, it should deal 165 to players instead of 110 damage. Also, 10 meters splash is nothing to laugh at :P
  • KalabalanaKalabalana Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22859Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1907949:date=Feb 28 2012, 04:00 PM:name=John Blackthorne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (John Blackthorne @ Feb 28 2012, 04:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907949"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just resonating what has been said on many other threads, mid-late game the skulk needs more going on for it not less health or making it weaker<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Damage increase is not making it weaker.
  • John BlackthorneJohn Blackthorne Join Date: 2012-02-23 Member: 147245Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1907954:date=Feb 28 2012, 04:12 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Feb 28 2012, 04:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907954"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Damage increase is not making it weaker.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Reducing health is.
  • MajinMajin Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16829Members, Constellation
    If you want to try xenocide right now... There is a bug that will make you explode.
    The way I was able to make it happen was as follows.

    As a. Skulk, chomp a power node and then switch to parasite and parasite the node. Now switch back to bite and start to bite the node again, you should explode with a scream and yellow flash.

    It happened to me 2 times the other night with people witnessing it and not knowing what happened.
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1907957:date=Feb 28 2012, 03:18 PM:name=Majin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Majin @ Feb 28 2012, 03:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907957"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you want to try xenocide right now... There is a bug that will make you explode.
    The way I was able to make it happen was as follows.

    As a. Skulk, chomp a power node and then switch to parasite and parasite the node. Now switch back to bite and start to bite the node again, you should explode with a scream and yellow flash.

    It happened to me 2 times the other night with people witnessing it and not knowing what happened.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You didn't "glitch" bite into exploding you, you just switched to xenocide and activated it.
  • KalabalanaKalabalana Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22859Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1907955:date=Feb 28 2012, 04:15 PM:name=John Blackthorne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (John Blackthorne @ Feb 28 2012, 04:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907955"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Reducing health is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You're right. If we made skulk damage kill all marines in a 10 foot radius, but reduced his HP by 10, that would totally nerf him.
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1907966:date=Feb 28 2012, 03:49 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Feb 28 2012, 03:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907966"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're right. If we made skulk damage kill all marines in a 10 foot radius, but reduced his HP by 10, that would totally nerf him.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think the concern is that non-xenocide-using Skulks would be unfairly impacted by a balance adjustment such as that.
  • KalabalanaKalabalana Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22859Members
    edited February 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1907973:date=Feb 28 2012, 05:06 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 28 2012, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907973"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the concern is that non-xenocide-using Skulks would be unfairly impacted by a balance adjustment such as that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    If you don't use the Xenocide ability you would not be affected by the health drop.

    But again, this was just my suggestion, that would work, but by no means do I consider this an ideal solution to balance.
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Members
    So perhaps activating xenocide drops your maximum health in the time before you explode? I could see that working. Might make xenocide a sort of default-tactic for skulks that run low on health in enemy territory, though, since they won't take the penalties.
  • John BlackthorneJohn Blackthorne Join Date: 2012-02-23 Member: 147245Members
    I could see this working as well, on a side note Tech what do you think of Xenocide right now as being a third hive skill?
  • ÒŗăNģёÒŗăNģё Join Date: 2012-02-09 Member: 144437Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    Third hive=Xenocide

    Xenocide=weak

    Yes i've gotten 3 marines in 1 xeno but theres times when i xeno, bite a rine and blow up and he just walks off like it didnt happen. Also its pretty damn loud, I thought at first our hive was dying over and over.

    I'm hopping its a placeholder and they put it in just so we could expect more of it later.
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Members
    edited February 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1907985:date=Feb 28 2012, 04:44 PM:name=John Blackthorne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (John Blackthorne @ Feb 28 2012, 04:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907985"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I could see this working as well, on a side note Tech what do you think of Xenocide right now as being a third hive skill?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Well being a 3rd hive skill automatically makes something a siege-breaker or hammer-dropper in my opinion, because most of the maps I've played on focus on preventing or suppressing the evolution of the 2nd hive. The 3rd hive is either easy to keep down (and thus not a concern), or impossible to stop (because the game is basically over).

    With that in mind, I'd like to see Xenocide actually do something damaging to the marine team. At the moment, all it does is kill (probably base-camping and weapon-retrieving) marines, and as a 3rd hive ability that isn't really amazing. The fact that it forces you to respawn isn't great either. Overall, I'd rate it situational and underwhelming; by the time you have 3 hives up, the only people still playing skulks are people skilled enough with their movement to get kills without exploding.

    If resources were more scarce, Xenocide would be a great ability. It would turn even the most unskilled face-rushing skulk into a deadly threat. As-is, the people who need to suicide bomb to get skulk kills all go Onos, Gorge, or Lerk.

    If you want Xenocide to be amazing, you have to give it the ability to do something a normal 3rd-hive skulk can't do on his own.
  • John BlackthorneJohn Blackthorne Join Date: 2012-02-23 Member: 147245Members
    edited February 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1907992:date=Feb 28 2012, 05:59 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 28 2012, 05:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907992"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well being a 3rd hive skill automatically makes something a siege-breaker or hammer-dropper in my opinion, because most of the maps I've played on focus on preventing or suppressing the evolution of the 2nd hive. The 3rd hive is either easy to keep down (and thus not a concern), or impossible to stop (because the game is basically over).

    With that in mind, I'd like to see Xenocide actually do something damaging to the marine team. At the moment, all it does is kill (probably base-camping and weapon-retrieving) marines, and as a 3rd hive ability that isn't really amazing. The fact that it forces you to respawn isn't great either. Overall, I'd rate it situational and underwhelming; by the time you have 3 hives up, the only people still playing skulks are people skilled enough with their movement to get kills without exploding.

    If resources were more scarce, Xenocide would be a great ability. It would turn even the most unskilled face-rushing skulk into a deadly threat. As-is, the people who need to suicide bomb to get skulk kills all go Onos, Gorge, or Lerk. If you want Xenocide to be amazing, you have to give it the ability to do something a normal 3rd-hive skulk can't do on his own.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Thank you for your insight Tech it is greatly appreciated.
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Members
    edited February 2012
    Now granted, I'm not a NS1 player, so any insight or opinions I offer should be taken with the caveat that I don't know what I'm talking about.
  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Members
    edited February 2012
    xenocide from NS1 was incredibly awesome.

    From alien perspective, if you were low on res you could do your best to xeno on a group of rines. It was SO much fun when you killed 4+ marines.

    From marine perspective, you needed to have either a jetpack or heavy armor to properly repel constant xenocides. Otherwise if you turtled, you'd slowly be beaten down. Blowing up on a bunch of people repairing and defending home base when when it was most useful.

    I really enjoyed this gameplay aspect and I'd like it to return.
  • John BlackthorneJohn Blackthorne Join Date: 2012-02-23 Member: 147245Members
    edited February 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1907995:date=Feb 28 2012, 06:07 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 28 2012, 06:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907995"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now granted, I'm not a NS1 player, so any insight or opinions I offer should be taken with the caveat that I don't know what I'm talking about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No worries Tech I keep that in mind with every post.

    <!--quoteo(post=1907996:date=Feb 28 2012, 06:08 PM:name=zastels)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zastels @ Feb 28 2012, 06:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907996"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->xenocide from NS1 was incredibly awesome.

    From alien perspective, if you were low on res you could do your best to xeno on a group of rines. It was SO much fun when you killed 4+ marines.

    From marine perspective, you needed to have either a jetpack or heavy armor to properly repel constant xenocides. Otherwise if you turtled, you'd slowly be beaten down. Blowing up on a bunch of people repairing and defending home base when when it was most useful.

    I really enjoyed this gameplay aspect and I'd like it to return.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That sounds pretty neat zas, I like Tech never played the first NS so I hope to see xenocide turn into something amazing.
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Members
    Well that sort of Xenocide just isn't likely to return under the current resource model. When everyone can afford to go Onos, why would anyone (but the most die-hard skulk fans) go skulk?

    Make lifeforms much scarcer, and we'll see Xenocide become a powerful 3rd-hive mechanic again.
  • FlayraFlayra Game Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment San Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
    Yep, it's planned and mostly implemented.

    It needs a little work before it can be released though.
  • ÒŗăNģёÒŗăNģё Join Date: 2012-02-09 Member: 144437Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    In my perspective xenocide was extremely useful late game. Did great damage, caused chaos and did not feed marines res(skulks are easy kills late game).
    I hope it will be just as amazing in NS2!
  • NakorsonNakorson Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140253Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1908036:date=Feb 28 2012, 07:02 PM:name=ÒŗăNģё)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ÒŗăNģё @ Feb 28 2012, 07:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908036"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In my perspective xenocide was extremely useful late game. Did great damage, caused chaos and did not feed marines res(skulks are easy kills late game).
    I hope it will be just as amazing in NS2!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    And gives the players without res a chance to do at least a bit useful thing.
  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited February 2012
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