Lerk Balance
Quovatis
Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
The lerk ROF change seems to have really limited the role of the lerk in the last patch. The ROF is so slow, that it's very hard to kill a marine. The shotgun ability isn't that useful due to the performance issues, as it's difficult to get a shot on target. Perhaps tweak the spikes to have lower spread or slightly increase the ROF a bit. I agree the lerk was a little OP in 187, but it was nerfed a bit too much.
So what is the role of the lerk now? It's not an offensive unit now with the ROF nerf. It's fairly fragile. The spore ability is ok, but now you have to fly right into the marines to do anything. Spore perhaps helps the team, but it's not very rewarding, as you get no kills, and no feedback on how effective it was to help your team. Spikes aren't very effective at taking out structures now either, so you can't take out a sentry at range.
I feel it's really missing something. If it's going to be a support unit, it needs more support abilities (like umbra and primal scream). As is, it just doesn't feel like it fits in well. It really doesn't excel at doing anything and is an all-around mediocre unit.
So what is the role of the lerk now? It's not an offensive unit now with the ROF nerf. It's fairly fragile. The spore ability is ok, but now you have to fly right into the marines to do anything. Spore perhaps helps the team, but it's not very rewarding, as you get no kills, and no feedback on how effective it was to help your team. Spikes aren't very effective at taking out structures now either, so you can't take out a sentry at range.
I feel it's really missing something. If it's going to be a support unit, it needs more support abilities (like umbra and primal scream). As is, it just doesn't feel like it fits in well. It really doesn't excel at doing anything and is an all-around mediocre unit.
Comments
How do you use the shotgun fire mode? I only know how to get spore trail, rapid fire and a kind of sniper shot.
What's worse is that as performance (hopefully!) continues to improve, marine aim will also improve and flying in to drop spores will essentially turn you into a suicide bomber. Lerking is probably the easiest comparison to make between NS1 and NS2, because both the flight models and the health/armor values are very similar. The major difference being that the lerk's melee/ranged attacks have been flipped from melee damage and ranged support in NS1 to melee support and ranged damage in NS2. The NS2 flight model is also a bit slower than the NS1 flight model, as the speed "extremes" have been capped to a larger degree.
I recommend anyone who thinks that the current spore model is a good idea to play a few rounds of NS1 and try to fly in and drop spores in melee. See how long you survive. That's how it's going to be in NS2 once the average player is able to get a stable 60+ fps.
I think it might be quite a bit worse in NS2 due to the increased amount of big guns, especially shotguns and possibly nade launchers.
The lerk may have gotten too nerfed in the last couple of patches.
The initial changes to the spikes and spore trail led to alot more lerks playing on servers.
But currently we are back to skulk, gorge, and fade.
The only idea I would like to throw out is that is it possible the lerk isn't too nerfed but too overpriced.
Like the resource amount is enough that I would rather save it for fade.
The Lerk doesn't have a clear role now. It's weak at supporting and weak at killing. I think a good change would be if spikes got momentum (keep the hitscan, but increase damage) from your forward movement. This would reward swooping in on marines guns blazing, while not rewarding vent hiding or staying immobile as I think the problem with the initial spikes was. They want the lerk to fly.
What I can tell you is that the marines who can aim shotguns are very difficult to fight - if I try to stay out of 'good shotgun range' the performance issues on both players mean that I don't hit nearly as many shots as I should. Of course, if I fly up close and the marine doesn't have 10 FPS I'm cooked in one shot. I expect this part to get a lot better when the game is tightened up further - the flying mechanics are really well done, and I can see a big skill ceiling on 'faking out' marines' aim and staying outside their optimal range while you whittle them down.
It's a really fun class, and I feel like it's almost "complete" in terms of its playstyle right now (gas stuff, fly around, shoot stuff) but it needs something else to be good. To be honest, I would love to see Umbra back on the lerk. In NS1 it worked as an ability because it gave lerks something to do at every stage of the game (and it becomes much more important as the marines start to get their big splashy weapons going). In the early game the lerk was a pseudo-fade, able to do lots of damage to stray targets and then fly away. In the late game it was a support class that could fight occasionally and didn't cost very much to evolve into. In NS2, only half of that is true.
Obviously, tweaking damage/armor/health numbers is important too (and they're working on it, as you can see in one of the NS2HD videos from this week).
It might also be nice to try a higher cap on flight speed (but with more spacebar presses to get there). I find with the newly improved performance (which has lead to turrets being much more useful) flying by a turret accidentally as a lerk to be way too punishing.
Another wacky idea (and this is quite wacky) would be to have gas clouds take on some of your momentum (like projectiles in Tribes) when you lay them. This would be a compromise between "firing gas as a projectile" and "dropping it where you currently are", with the ratio of the two being determined by the player and how fast they choose to move when gassing. The end result would be that you can lay gas to help your skulks get into melee range safely, but without putting yourself in "instant shotgun/grenade death" range.
What would make sense, is spore and umbra spikes. They would work roughly the same as spores and umbra worked in NS1, but instead of firing a cloud, you shoot a spike that explodes into a cloud on impact. Looks good, makes sense and should play well.
I love the gameplay effect of the current lerk spores (being so functional in creating walls of spore, to block marine view) and hope that any changes maintain this. If the ability does turn into a ranged weapon, perhaps it could explode upwards and sideways creating a semi 'wall' effect. Allow lerks to more easily block marine view.
Or perhaps Lerks could spit a ball (that hits a surface and rolls/bounces a certain distance) which leaves an acid trail which 'eats' at the surface it hits and sends a cloud upwards.
It's kinda like <b>every single thing</b> in Starcraft 2.
In pub games im liking that playing a lerk doesn't make you feel like you can take on 3 marines and still live. Spike shotgun still seems pretty effective while normal spikes do seem like a waste of time seeing how much less time you can stay in combat and expect to live against marines now...
Very good point, I like the idea of altering opacity in line with the risk to lerks in spreading spores. It wouldn't require a complete wall to give skulks a considerable advantage.
I personally consider the panic I feel when I find myself blinded to be quite fun. The knowledge that an alien could be about to violently end my life at any moment is quite exhilarating and a solid contrast to the massive advantage I have at distance with clear sight. Also, the lerk blinded me at great person risk to himself, there should be a reward for the alien team (my previously mentioned violent death).
I realise it is similar to losing control (which is a big no), but I think there is an important distinction. Even with greatly limited vision, I still have complete control of my character and can still exert a measure of influence on the game around me.
In the scrim's between duplex and arc even right now you dive in you pretty much die. Even if the whole marine team gets taken down after the lerk puts spores up but dies, its just not worth it. It might work to tweak lerks armor or health and dps but end of the day it would be just alot easier to revert back to shooting spores (and ubra, fingers crossed). Also the lerk flight model is too complicated for 99% of the players to actually become decent enough for spore diving.
Spikes: Shotgun or Snipe
-Gasses: Umbra or Spores
<b><u>Flight System tweak:</u></b>
-Press *button* will cause the lerk to enter a hovering mode; *slowly* fly above the ground/or hover without having to press space. So you could attack from this position and sort of glide around with ease. Hover height somewhere around marine chest height.
Anything that accelerates the lerk or makes you fly upward reverts this hover mode to current flying system. Pressing *button* while flying will slow to hover speed and drop you to hover height.
<u>Implications:</u>
-Keeps the lerk off the ground and mobile, better position for using ranged attacks.
-Easier for new players to move around, skill cap stays high with skilled flying
<b><u>New Ability Ideas:</u></b> what is the lerk's role? Support evolution.
+Terrifying Shriek: The Lerk creates a high intensity shriek incapacitating enemies within (Xyards). (Screen darkens some, movement slowed, crosshair movement slowed)
-High energy cost, high risk/reward ability that benefits entire team. Marines will hate this but as long as its balanced correctly and end tier ability it might work fine.
+Festering Spike: The Lerk fires a barbed spike into a enemy that begins to fester and build pressure. Within X seconds the spike explodes dealing damage to the hit enemy and all enemies around around the target for X damage. If the enemy(regular marine) is hit in the head, the enemy will die when the spike explodes. Can be cured with medpacks or armory.
-High cost ranged tactical ability. Marine that is hit has a chance to move away from other marines or get healed. Spike can be seen sticking out of the hit marine.
<u>Random thoughts:</u>
-Spore vision impairment is annoying for everyone marine/alien.