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  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    Also the point about polies is not per model, but per pixel.

    If your model has a lot of coverage, as in it's going to take up a lot of the screen, it needs more polies.

    With viewmodels it's particularly relevant because a view model doesn't move, it doesn't end up really small at a distance, it's always right under your nose taking up about 15% of the screen.

    So it should have 15% of the polycount on the screen.

    Which in modern games is quite a lot.
  • BJHBnade_spammerBJHBnade_spammer Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42431Members
    awwbut i wanted 2 gls for the price of one
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Boom baybee: <a href="http://t.co/cTgpKUJn" target="_blank">http://t.co/cTgpKUJn</a> (it's not perfect but MUCH better)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I noticed this too. Balance appears much improved from B187/188 and its almost between the 46.9% - 53.1% for 1000 games range that would leave me to believe that NS2 is 'balanced' (see <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=114175&hl=" target="_blank">here</a>).

    Now the question is which changes caused this?
    Most likely
    - Removal of alien melee upgrades (such that it takes a min of 3 bites at all times for a kill and more during the late game)
    - Improved performance making marine more 'accurate'
    Possibly likely
    - 100 TRes hives (though if this had a large effect, we should have seen balance improvements in B188)

    Frankly, I think the (accidental) removal of the alien melee upgrades likely had the largest change. In effect, it increases the marine survivability (i.e. taking 3 bites instead of 2 early game and putting skulks at a disadvantage late game) and forces aliens to work towards mid/late game tech (2nd hive, fades) rather than just dominating early with quick upgrades. I've always suspected that the current melee upgrades were causing balance issues, but I didn't think it was this big.
  • konatakonata Join Date: 2011-08-24 Member: 118296Members
    I think it would also make sense and help balance if aliens could only evolve on infestation.
  • ogzogz Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9765Members
    also another reason for marine wins

    slower egg spawning rate (is this intentional?)

    played heaps of games with aliens suiciding a bit too much and running out of eggs
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members
    yea running out of eggs sucks. Does it add anything to gameplay???
  • ObraxisObraxis Subnautica Animator & Generalist, NS2 Person Join Date: 2004-07-24 Member: 30071Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Supporter, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts
    <!--quoteo(post=1888102:date=Dec 3 2011, 03:12 AM:name=ogz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogz @ Dec 3 2011, 03:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888102"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->also another reason for marine wins

    slower egg spawning rate (is this intentional?)

    played heaps of games with aliens suiciding a bit too much and running out of eggs<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    No slower egg spawning is not intentional. It was even spotted in a number of playtests before release, but tracking down the code that was causing the issue has been a problem. I think Charlie is on the case tho :)
  • elodeaelodea Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/69431504@N03/6462723983/" target="_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/69431504@N03/6462723983/</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Isn't that max's desk? What have you done to him Hugh! Can Dushan fill his shoes?
  • Delta1Delta1 Join Date: 2009-08-01 Member: 68326Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    jetpacks? onos? i think i almost punched air and whooped :p
  • juicejuice Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12886Members, Constellation
    The new "builder" tool could be used to interact with the new door button as well.
  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Members
    Yeah, about locked doors and Marines with welders... will we have to +use on the tiny door console to open it, andd +use on the door itself to weld it?
  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1889026:date=Dec 8 2011, 02:01 AM:name=PsiWarp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Dec 8 2011, 02:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889026"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, about locked doors and Marines with welders... will we have to +use on the tiny door console to open it, andd +use on the door itself to weld it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Permanent door locking is probably getting removed. Doors will be open all the time, until there is a power node in the area, in which case the door will automatically close, and then function the normal way, opening and closing as players go through. Marine players can +use the new keypads on the side of the door, which will temporarily lock a door that is powered, but only for a few seconds, as it is meant merely to prep it for welding.

    So, basically if a marine wants to weld the door, they +use the keypad, which keeps the door from opening when they go near it, and then they have a few seconds to start welding the door before it opens again. If they don't start welding in those few seconds, the door automatically unlocks and opens again. There will probably be some countdown on the marine HUD letting them know how long the door is locked for. Doors without power can't be closed and locked, meaning that a marine with a welder can't go around and weld every single door on the map.

    --Cory
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1889034:date=Dec 8 2011, 02:52 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Dec 8 2011, 02:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889034"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Permanent door locking is probably getting removed. Doors will be open all the time, until there is a power node in the area, in which case the door will automatically close, and then function the normal way, opening and closing as players go through. Marine players can +use the new keypads on the side of the door, which will temporarily lock a door that is powered, but only for a few seconds, as it is meant merely to prep it for welding.

    So, basically if a marine wants to weld the door, they +use the keypad, which keeps the door from opening when they go near it, and then they have a few seconds to start welding the door before it opens again. If they don't start welding in those few seconds, the door automatically unlocks and opens again. There will probably be some countdown on the marine HUD letting them know how long the door is locked for. Doors without power can't be closed and locked, meaning that a marine with a welder can't go around and weld every single door on the map.

    --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Hrr I wonder if you could change that to the following:

    Unpowered: Door is open all the time.

    Powered: Door acts like a current locked door except that aliens can attack it for say 100HP of damage to make it open for 10-15 seconds or so, basically making a locked door an effective warning for marines but not a movement obstacle. Marines have to +use it as currently to make it open or hold +use to weld it shut.

    Mostly this is because I really like the locking animation and want to see it played as much as possible, and because I like the little pause at a door, it adds a nice little halt to the progress and makes you sort of conscious of the new room you're stepping into. I also don't really like the idea that doors could be easily destroyed by any alien just because they are locked, which I think was mentioned in the design log.

    Welded: The door is sealed permanently and functions like a wall, unless an onos comes and bashes it down, it'd be nice if marine commanders could fork out money to replace them however, and require marines/macs to build them before they can function properly, an unbuilt door is always open, once built it assumes the state of whatever power is in the area at the time.

    You could also add in infestation effects, infestation could make a door behave as if it is unpowered, or make it work for the alien team, +use opening it for aliens while marines need to use fire or explosives to de-infest it to get through. An infested door could have some new infestation geometry over it which either interferes with the sensor mechanism or just forces the door open and closed, you could do some cool little glowing eyes or soemthing watching the doorway for approching units and then have it buzz and spark as the infestation opens it.
  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2011
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How does alien damage scale (5 bites vs. L3 marine) in a no-Focus world? (discuss)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I like the idea of conditional damage upgrades (Swarm, for example). One possibility is to increase the damage Marines take on infestation (from bacterial infection). Alternatively, an upgrade could add bonus damage based on target's current health, or remaining health, or leave a nasty residual DoT.

    Let's not rule out Focus making a return in NS2, with a few tweaks. Perhaps Focus upgrade could add bonus damage based on remaining energy.

    Fury (whip) suffers from too many drawbacks. If Fury's area/radius and duration are increased, it could become the primary damage buff aliens need.

    Come on people, I know you all have a lot of wonderful ideas!
  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Members
    @Cory: Thanks for the reply, I can't for the changes to go in for testing :)

    But since doors separate 2 rooms/corridors...

    - Neutral room -> door -> neutral room = Door opened always
    - Neutral room -> door -> powered room (vice versa) = Door closed, open when player nearby
    - Neutral room -> door -> unpowered room (vice versa) = Door opened always

    - Powered room -> door -> unpowered room (vice versa) = Door opened or closed?

    Also, perhaps infestation disables the door console so that Marines can't lock it (and weld), maybe the Flamethrower can come in handy to burn off the goo.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited December 2011
    With a system like this it would seem inconsistent unless there were more controllable doors throughout the maps, like the power nodes.

    Also taking griefing into account, one player could weld his team out of all the important routes. They would have to either unweld the doors, or give the exosuit punch the ability to break through doors as well.
  • Heroman117Heroman117 Join Date: 2010-07-28 Member: 73268Members
    New loading screens look awesome, are we going to be able to have music play while we are loading like in NS1?

    I always loved connecting to the <BAD> clan servers cause it'd play <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsUXAEzaC3Q&t=67" target="_blank">Bad</a> while i loaded.
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members
    That door locking system is a bit confusing for me. The part where you press a lock button, but you haven't really locked it, then you have a short amount of time to start welding the door...it's not really a lock then? I wonder if people will press that button and when the door opens they'll assume its a bug.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    i agree. the intuitive nature has been lost. why doesnt it just operate the same way it is now essentially? door opens or is already open for everybody, locked means its only open for marines and is subject to destruction by skulks etc after a long time biting, and then welding makes it so only onos or infestation gets to it?
  • juicejuice Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12886Members, Constellation
    Dushan is measuring mouse lag! That gives him a big thumbs up from me! I like his style, focused on optimization and getting the core of things functioning right.

    I just hope it doesn't take a large number of frames to be able to analyze the latency properly, so you can then easily compare between computers and graphics configurations. Without high speed cameras you're limited to a resolution of 20 ms if you only look at single frames. I'm excited though.
  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1889207:date=Dec 8 2011, 06:58 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Dec 8 2011, 06:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889207"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i agree. the intuitive nature has been lost. why doesnt it just operate the same way it is now essentially? door opens or is already open for everybody, locked means its only open for marines and is subject to destruction by skulks etc after a long time biting, and then welding makes it so only onos or infestation gets to it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The problem with the way it operates now is that, at the beginning of every game, the marine commander routinely locks all the doors on the map. Even if aliens are able to attack and open the doors, it's still frustrating for them to spend time doing that. It is also annoying as a marine player, to have to keep unlocking doors to get where you need to get to. Same goes for welding.

    Having it tied to power means that marines need to take a location, in order to weld to keep aliens out. Having the temp lock is there so the doors stay closed when the marine player moves up to it to weld, otherwise it gets difficult trying to distinguish when the door should open for a player and when it should stay closed for welding.

    Onos and DI will be able to break the weld.

    --Cory
  • Lemming JesusLemming Jesus Join Date: 2010-04-13 Member: 71385Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1889213:date=Dec 8 2011, 01:15 PM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (juice @ Dec 8 2011, 01:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889213"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dushan is measuring mouse lag! That gives him a big thumbs up from me! I like his style, focused on optimization and getting the core of things functioning right.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's the new guy they hired just for that purpose.
  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
    If the problem is locking doors at the start of round, why don't just make them locked at start?

    Its also weird how you point out spending time doing what is essentially the game as frustrating. Or opening locked doors as annoying. A door that has its place and gives marines an extra route, protected from aliens, well if that marine understands the purpose of that door, he won't mind having to open it to get through. A door that is gimmicky placed will be annoying because the marine doesn't understand why there is a door there in the first place.

    With your new dynamic it becomes an even bigger chore for a marine to seal a door.

    This might be my own interpretation, but I see doors to marines what vents are to aliens. The door mechanic should be as easy to use for marines as it is easy for aliens to use vents.
  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1889236:date=Dec 8 2011, 09:42 PM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Dec 8 2011, 09:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889236"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the problem is locking doors at the start of round, why don't just make them locked at start?

    Its also weird how you point out spending time doing what is essentially the game as frustrating. Or opening locked doors as annoying. A door that has its place and gives marines an extra route, protected from aliens, well if that marine understands the purpose of that door, he won't mind having to open it to get through. A door that is gimmicky placed will be annoying because the marine doesn't understand why there is a door there in the first place.

    With your new dynamic it becomes an even bigger chore for a marine to seal a door.

    This might be my own interpretation, but I see doors to marines what vents are to aliens. The door mechanic should be as easy to use for marines as it is easy for aliens to use vents.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I totally agree.
    Having the doors locked at start, would give you the option of opening it if its attacked, so you have the possibility to weld it later.
    It adds possibility for extra routes for marines which arent as accessable for aliens, a route that reveals the aliens at least.
    And instead of going around the map to lock all of those doors, you have to be aware if they are attacked.
    Open the door and tell your marines that a threat is coming through.
    If you're not on your toes, you lose the door.
  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1889227:date=Dec 8 2011, 09:12 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Dec 8 2011, 09:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889227"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem with the way it operates now is that, at the beginning of every game, the marine commander routinely locks all the doors on the map. Even if aliens are able to attack and open the doors, it's still frustrating for them to spend time doing that. It is also annoying as a marine player, to have to keep unlocking doors to get where you need to get to. Same goes for welding.

    Having it tied to power means that marines need to take a location, in order to weld to keep aliens out. Having the temp lock is there so the doors stay closed when the marine player moves up to it to weld, otherwise it gets difficult trying to distinguish when the door should open for a player and when it should stay closed for welding.

    Onos and DI will be able to break the weld.

    --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Good observation and I agree with your reasoning, but not your solution. The core of the issue is that door locking isn't a very good gameplay mechanic to begin with and should probably just be axed so you can focus on other tasks.
  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Members
    @Evil_bOb1: That idea works too.

    Locked for neutral rooms, Marines can unlock if they want to take the short route, encourages Kharaa use of vents (if doors indestructible by default)

    Unlocked but closed for powered rooms, the shortest route is always available to both sides, and powered rooms are then openly contestable from all routes.

    Door welding only possible for doors being powered, to keep Marines from welding every single door on the map. Maybe the door console lights up when connected to a Power Node, and a Marine must +use on the console to lock it temporarily (as Cory mentioned) to prep it for welding?
  • lunsluns Join Date: 2010-12-05 Member: 75502Members
    in ns1 only certain key areas were able to be welded. In ns2 we have to change that, allow all doors to be welded. This would only expand the options what marines can do, and since locked doors can be broken down by aliens as Cory points out either by DI or onos - this change wouldn't be so bad.
  • PyromaniacPyromaniac Join Date: 2009-02-20 Member: 66498Members
    edited December 2011
    For the input lag testing make sure you use NS1 with vsync off as a control since there is hardware input lag. I'm not sure what helpful information you can get out of filming the screen other than it being lagged, which is already known.
  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1889259:date=Dec 8 2011, 11:16 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Dec 8 2011, 11:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889259"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->in ns1 only certain key areas were able to be welded. In ns2 we have to change that, allow all doors to be welded. This would only expand the options what marines can do, and since locked doors can be broken down by aliens as Cory points out either by DI or onos - this change wouldn't be so bad.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This is a great idea if you want to spend half the game staring at a door pressing +attack.
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