Marine backward walk is too slow
Wisp
Join Date: 2007-12-18 Member: 63211Members, Reinforced - Diamond
Join Date: 2007-12-18 Member: 63211Members, Reinforced - Diamond
I like how recent patches have improved marine combat to make it feel more fluid and modern, but there is one element that I still find very bothersome. The backward walk is ridiculously slow, so much so that it feels cumbersome. I understand that this is a balance issue, it helps the Aliens close distance with the Marines... but the tradeoff is too great. I cannot think of another modern first person shooter where moving backwards is so heavily punished.
I think Natural Selection 2 should model the basic infantry level combat after a game like Left 4 Dead. Both games involve asymmetric warfare. One team carries guns and the other can scale walls, leap great distances, etc. On top of this, the mechanics of combat are similar for the Marine and Survivor teams. There are no iron sights, prone, etc. The only difference I can think of is that Marines can sprint. Anyway, the point I am trying to make is that Left 4 Dead is very popular, partly because the shooting mechanics are very fun. If Natural Selection 2 can achieve that same level of satisfaction in wielding a weapon and gunning down Aliens, then the game will be more appealing to new customers. Restricting player movement in anyway hinders this, so I would like to see the very punishing backward walk speed increased significantly.
I think Natural Selection 2 should model the basic infantry level combat after a game like Left 4 Dead. Both games involve asymmetric warfare. One team carries guns and the other can scale walls, leap great distances, etc. On top of this, the mechanics of combat are similar for the Marine and Survivor teams. There are no iron sights, prone, etc. The only difference I can think of is that Marines can sprint. Anyway, the point I am trying to make is that Left 4 Dead is very popular, partly because the shooting mechanics are very fun. If Natural Selection 2 can achieve that same level of satisfaction in wielding a weapon and gunning down Aliens, then the game will be more appealing to new customers. Restricting player movement in anyway hinders this, so I would like to see the very punishing backward walk speed increased significantly.
Comments
i basically think about unbinding S every build since its usually just gets me killed
The problem of the slow movement only exists when you play other games that have another movement (f.e. you need the diopter to aim and hit so your movement will always be reduced when aiming, a thing that doesn't exist in NS2). But I agree that it could be a bit faster. But it doesn't really afect gameplay if you get used to cyrclestrafing. The real punishement is, that you need to turn your back to the aliens to flee. So you have to deside a slow retreat with guns or running like chickens. Thats why it think it fits in the gameplay. But I wouldn't say no to a little speedup but not 100% movement speed.
Would just need to make sure players couldn't just keep tapping the key instead of holding it down in order to continue moving backwards at a faster speed, but that should be doable.
--Cory
Backpedal stamina bar on the HUD!!!! Think about what a unique feature that would be. :v
For example, let's say you can move left/straight/right at 5 units/second and back at 2 units/second. If you hold forward and left you'll move at a 45 degree angle at 5 units/second.
Currently if you hold back and left you move a 45 degree angle back at 2 units/second.<i> <b>This seems wrong!</b></i>
What I would expect is to move at something like a 60 degree angle off your backwards vector at something like 4 units/second, so you're moving more left at a reasonable speed, and a little back. There's some math that can be done to get the exact numbers relative to game speed, so it shouldn't require any guestimates.
Or, more sensibly, you could re-add slowdown on hit for marines, or do something about the general habit of alien attacking being mostly composed of flailing ineffectually at the air while you try to track a target flickering across your screen constantly. It's harder for aliens to hit marines in close combat than it is for marines to hit aliens, because marines tend to have continuous fire or area effect weapons. There's pretty obviously something wrong there.
I agree completely. Movement scalars from things like backwards movement just affect max speed. This causes other weird movement problems, like crouching slowing you down in mid-air.
I really don't understand the decision for the slow backwards movement. If you really want the marines to have a disadvantage while moving backwards why not just make the guns less accurate or something like that? Because gimping the backwards movement makes the pace of the game feel very sluggish.
it could be re-worked to have a fair way to be in the game, but hopefully in a way that still lets strafejumping be a viable alternative
cause i suck at grammar, if the backpedal is changed, i just hope its not too good in fights.
For the same reasons the backward glide jump move worked well in NS1, it is a good idea in NS2. But it would be dumbed down a little of course. That's ok I guess.
Yup he nailed it.
2 words:
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>DO IT</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
NS1 had far better mechanics for dodgejumping and such. As with quite a lot of stuff, NS2 is a bit stuck in a point where it mimics NS1 halfway through but doesn't manage to preserve all the beneficial or necessary details.
I think I'd like to see UWE finding some other solution than giving the backpedal a big speed boost. The backpedal becomes such a dominant and unimaginative option for combat if it's effective to use.
Duck+Jump is still going to be revised though, heh it currently also increases your downward momentum like the Lerk :D
don't see why anything +jump is relevant to "w" starting at high speed and slowing to walk speed over a second or so.
Just cancel out the speed increase when jump is pressed, or to put it another way reduce the backwards stamina to 0 after jumping. Some method that prevents reverse bunny hopping but still allows backwards jumping.
Do we need backwards jumping? It seems to me that it would look awkward, and much more importantly, serve no real gameplay purpose. In my opinion, jumping for Marines should be a movement tool, not a combat or dodging tool, and I can't see how jumping backwards would help outside of dodging.
In earlier releases it was not there.
Marines simply shot and ran backwards and all skulks were dead.
It was not fun at all to be an alien ...and it looked rather silly.
They said how did we deal with this in the first one...we slowed the backward speed down...lets do that.
Now that all the history is there ...now try to solve the problem.
If you make it so the marine falls on his butt if he walks backward and fires and gun...i would be fine with that.
Jumping is often a form of skill-based dodging. Spamming jump, however, is no different from spamming the backwards movement option behind door #2.
I think that jumping to get onto things, or to cross obstacles, is a great form of dodging. Hopping onto a crate or over a railing, for instance.
Jumping to avoid being bitten feels cheap to me as both a Marine and a Skulk, and doesn't seem (to me) like something that should even work.
Just to preserve the fluidity of the games movement. Restricting movement to "you can only do x when you're doing y unless you're doing z" makes gameplay feel choppy.