Is bunny hop still in?

noxnoctumnoxnoctum Join Date: 2010-06-07 Member: 71985Members
This was the only thing I didnt like about NS1... is it present in NS2 engine/beta?
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Comments

  • playerplayer Join Date: 2010-09-12 Member: 73982Members
    Oh oh, you be openin a can o worms here. As it stands currently, there is no bunnyhopping (of any significance anyway).
  • noxnoctumnoxnoctum Join Date: 2010-06-07 Member: 71985Members
    edited August 2011
    thanks, looks like I'll be pre-ordering :) (digging the low sys req!)

    Any plans to add bunny hopping in later?
  • azimaithazimaith Join Date: 2011-07-03 Member: 107686Members
    It doesn't bring you any benefit save for possibly making you slightly harder to hit due to the movement when jumping. You don't really see it anymore (which is great for the atmosphere.)
  • noxnoctumnoxnoctum Join Date: 2010-06-07 Member: 71985Members
    Ya I was really more asking about how you could get that crazy speed bonus going in the old HL1 engine.
  • SiniStarRSiniStarR Join Date: 2010-04-13 Member: 71380Members
    edited August 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1869943:date=Aug 18 2011, 11:37 PM:name=noxnoctum)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noxnoctum @ Aug 18 2011, 11:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1869943"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->thanks, looks like I'll be pre-ordering :) (digging the low sys req!)

    Any plans to add bunny hopping in later?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Do not take those sys req as the real deal. This game honestly hasn't gotten to that level. It's better to look at it as what they are aiming for. Still not there yet. Don't let that stop you from getting the game though. It is very enjoyable and a whole lot of fun! Just don't get tricked by the specs!
  • Dank McShwaggerDank McShwagger Join Date: 2009-06-10 Member: 67784Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1869943:date=Aug 18 2011, 11:37 PM:name=noxnoctum)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noxnoctum @ Aug 18 2011, 11:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1869943"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->thanks, looks like I'll be pre-ordering :) (digging the low sys req!)

    Any plans to add bunny hopping in later?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    If you are pre-ordering based both on low sys req and beta access then you should know that the beta is not optimized for low end computers and may be unplayable for some.
  • noxnoctumnoxnoctum Join Date: 2010-06-07 Member: 71985Members
    Well my computer's not terrible or anything I could run ME2 fine but had trouble with say BC2.
  • aeroripperaeroripper Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    edited August 2011
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well my computer's not terrible or anything I could run ME2 fine but had trouble with say BC2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It will take a relatively new machine to run everything on high and stay above 40fps most of the time. My aging rig usually handles 20-30fps on medium settings (dualcore 2.8ghz, 6gb ram, gtx 460). It seems currently that my CPU is the main performance driver (and bottleneck) as my video card barely breaks a sweat. What kind of a machine are you running? Still highly recommend purchasing though, as its pretty fun to play even in this point in beta.

    The devs have expressed interest in adding officially adding in skill based movement techniques as a feature, but not just yet. It's not likely bunny hopping ala NS1 is coming back.
  • ZurikiZuriki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75105Members
    edited August 2011
    I have a quad-core 3.8GHz i5, the game lags. I can run almost any modern game on full settings without too much trouble (notable exceptions are Crysis 2 and Far Cry 2, both of which I have to go sub-par settings, I will blame FC2 on poor optimization though, as it has about the same detail as Crysis 1 which ran just fine on full). My graphics card doesn't struggle too much with the geometry but the game will hitch from time to time for various reasons, ping lag, poorly optimized code, cinematics/special effects (notable combat lag), occlusion culling failures, garbage collector lag and general overhead for Lua interpretation.

    As much as I am thankful they left the game open as Lua source, I sometimes wish they would have sacrificed that for compiled code just to make the game more playable.
  • vizioNzvizioNz InversionNS2.com Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24595Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
    edited August 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1869943:date=Aug 18 2011, 11:37 PM:name=noxnoctum)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noxnoctum @ Aug 18 2011, 11:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1869943"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Any plans to add bunny hopping in later?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    NO!

    bunnyhopping was an exploit in the physics code of Half Life 1. I am more than happy it is not used in NS2 as well at 99.9% of newer PC titles.
  • GeneralBowserGeneralBowser Join Date: 2010-05-19 Member: 71801Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1870014:date=Aug 19 2011, 01:09 PM:name=vizionz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vizionz @ Aug 19 2011, 01:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870014"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NO!

    bunnyhopping was an exploit in the physics code of Half Life 1. I am more than happy it is not used in NS2 as well at 99.9% of newer PC titles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    this
  • Salraine_ChiSalraine_Chi Join Date: 2011-07-03 Member: 107669Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    It depends how you define bunny hopping. Marines still jump around constantly by bashing the space bar and change direction mid air when attacked a lot. Bunny hopping/jump spam, call it what you want. it is still going on an awful lot. I refuse to do it. Not only does it make it frustrating, especially for Skulks but looks totally ridiculous. It has its place in games like Quake and the like but not in NS2. Some will disagree I'm sure, but for me, even at this early stage of development it is the most annoying thing in the game. The Gorge looks a bit silly when it jumps too, bouncing away from you like an alien version of a Space Hopper.

    Don't know what the answer is. It has lessened since one of the patches addressed it somewhat (182?) and the devs have stated they don't like it either. Stopping the Marines gun from firing as in Day of Defeat could be an idea, having a stamina bar that lets you jump a certain height the first time then half the height after and so on.

    I'm still not sure if being able to change direction in the air is a good thing. As a fade I can blink and curve round corners which seems strange and unnatural. Its hard to judge where a Marine will land because of this too. If a marine jumps forward I don't think he should be able to change direction mid air.

    Cheers

    Sal
  • playerplayer Join Date: 2010-09-12 Member: 73982Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1870014:date=Aug 19 2011, 02:09 PM:name=vizionz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vizionz @ Aug 19 2011, 02:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870014"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->bunnyhopping was an exploit in the physics code of Half Life 1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Heh, that's always been the worst kind of argument against bunnyhopping. If you don't like it just say that, but don't go "oh it's alright but we can't use it cause it was an engine-bug, sorry".

    Personally I wouldn't mind a Quake-style bunnyhopping on skulks (with the space-bar hammering). Either that, or the skulk running-speed has to increase 3-fold, because right now it's depressingly slow.
  • TalesinTalesin Our own little well of hate Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
    <!--quoteo(post=1870057:date=Aug 19 2011, 11:05 AM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Aug 19 2011, 11:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870057"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Heh, that's always been the worst kind of argument against bunnyhopping. If you don't like it just say that, but don't go "oh it's alright but we can't use it cause it was an engine-bug, sorry".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I believe the argument was more of that it started out as an engine bug, and when Valve went to fix it too many 'competitive' players whined and howled up a ****storm about 'skill-based' play being killed, when one of their favorite little cheats was going away. Valve backpedalled as one of their big bread-and-butter draws (let's not kid... their biggest) those days was CS.
    As a result, every other game gets the same treatment, with the same people whining that their script won't give them an advantage any more, when it SHOULD, and anyone else could download the same script if they were leet too.

    Leave it out. Fix the game speeds on a base level, not by replicating an outdated twitch-glitch forcibly kept in place by loud asshats.
    You want skill-based movement? Go Lerk and practice flying. You know, an actual <b>skill</b> (not <i>script</i>) based movement system.
  • playerplayer Join Date: 2010-09-12 Member: 73982Members
    Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for the return of scripts here. I was more suggesting a hit-space-before-you-land kind of approach, which is easy to master and can be built right into the game. No need to download after-market scripts to make you not suck like NS1 became eventually.
  • WilsonWilson Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72867Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1870054:date=Aug 19 2011, 06:00 PM:name=Salraine_Chi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Salraine_Chi @ Aug 19 2011, 06:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870054"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't know what the answer is. It has lessened since one of the patches addressed it somewhat (182?) and the devs have stated they don't like it either. Stopping the Marines gun from firing as in Day of Defeat could be an idea, having a stamina bar that lets you jump a certain height the first time then half the height after and so on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah, I think the marines gun going down like while sprinting would stop this all together (ala dod). I'd like to try it and see how it plays for a while. I know a lot of people will complain but I think jumping around as marine shouldn't be the way of avoiding being hit. Something like a dodge move when you double tap a direction would be much better imo.
  • Mkk_BitestuffMkk_Bitestuff Join Date: 2003-01-17 Member: 12407Members
    Not sure about the others that used to play NS1, but I never needed a script to bhop. Mousewheel worked perfectly fine, and I could even do it with the space bar if I tried hard enough. The only script people used to use for bhop was a 3 jump script bound to space if they were lazy... People still look at bunnyhop as if it single-handedly ruined NS1, I think its time for some people to move on and let it go.
  • castymcnastycastymcnasty Join Date: 2007-01-22 Member: 59719Members
    I only ever used the 3 jump script as well. Loved it that the more I practiced it, I could clear the space to the marines better, or jump away from a skulk easier. While I am much opposed to the crazy scripting of NS1, I do feel like the skulk vs marine combat is a little lacking, but I haven't played too much yet so maybe that'll change.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    No bhopping, but much mwalking: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnGNKq######tE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnGNKq######tE</a>
  • meb3meb3 Join Date: 2011-06-23 Member: 106078Members
    It's funny people still call bunnyhopping an exploit when the NS developers knew about it and made the decision to leave it in the game (it is not a bug). It was left in because it is fun and raises the skill ceiling of the game.

    One of the reasons I don't enjoy most new modern FPS games is how constricted and slow the movement feels in comparison to NS, QL, Warsow, TFC, and Tribes 2. What keeps drawing me back into NS is how perfect the movement feels and plays for both teams.
  • TrueVeritasTrueVeritas Join Date: 2006-10-20 Member: 58082Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1870081:date=Aug 19 2011, 03:22 PM:name=meb3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (meb3 @ Aug 19 2011, 03:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870081"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's funny people still call bunnyhopping an exploit when the NS developers knew about it and made the decision to leave it in the game (it is not a bug). It was left in because it is fun and raises the skill ceiling of the game.

    One of the reasons I don't enjoy most new modern FPS games is how constricted and slow the movement feels in comparison to NS, QL, Warsow, TFC, and Tribes 2. What keeps drawing me back into NS is how perfect the movement feels and plays for both teams.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It's true :c

    Play NS1 for an hour and then load up NS2. You will immediately notice that it's playing in almost slow motion, as if marines and aliens have anchors tied to their legs.

    The best part is (for the MOST part) the people that don't like bunny hopping are the ones that wouldn't take the very short amount of time to learn it.

    Plus it would be easy to fix the learning curve by just making it so that when you hold down space bar you continuously jumped.
  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer
    Aaand another bunnyhopping thread crawls up out of the depths to terrorize the community forums with its endless circular arguments.

    At this stage, it's unlikely that BH will make a return in its full NS1 glory, though we understand the value of it on the competitive side. The pros and cons of BH have been stated a million times, so I'm not going to get dragged into that, however I will say that we are working on a variety of ways to get more fleshed out skill based movement into the game, especially for the alien side. It won't be an across the board thing, the way BH was, but rather a focus on the particular aspects of movement of each player class that makes them unique.

    So, for the Skulk, we are working on a wall hopping system that allows for increases in speed based off of timing jumps properly on varying surfaces. Walls, crates, railings, marine structures, etc, with the intention of getting the skulk off of the floor, and using the surrounding environment more. We may even have an early first pass at this for next patch, though no promises.

    We have other plans for the rest of the aliens. For example, there is a lot we could do to really enhance his bellyslide, to make it much more maneuverable as a start, and then to potentially have skill based moves like jumps and drifting that can be performed. Lerk flight is being improved and will likely get more additions/improvements, Fade has blink which comes with a whole host of possibilities, and we've got some ideas already for an Onos charge type of movement system.

    So, there's a long answer to the question of whether or not bunny hop will be in the game.

    --Cory
  • FloodinatorFloodinator [HBZ] Member Join Date: 2005-02-22 Member: 42087Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Thx Cory for those infos. The Skulk ideas sounds really inovative and cool can't wait to try it out :-D. And btw Gorge bellyslide needs Skill by aborting it at the right times and even Ping Pong is possible with it.

    +1 for the next patch ;-)
  • lunsluns Join Date: 2010-12-05 Member: 75502Members
    ^

    sounds like you're avoiding adding it. So you're trying to compensate with something else for it. The idea you have for skulks sounds great but without actual testing i cannot comment about it, so I look forward to it. Though I just hope you end up adding the movement needed in the end. I fear somebody will end up making a mod for it if you guys refuse to add it.
  • ArcadianArcadian Join Date: 2008-11-30 Member: 65617Members
  • azimaithazimaith Join Date: 2011-07-03 Member: 107686Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1870083:date=Aug 19 2011, 10:39 AM:name=TrueVeritas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrueVeritas @ Aug 19 2011, 10:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870083"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's true :c

    Play NS1 for an hour and then load up NS2. You will immediately notice that it's playing in almost slow motion, as if marines and aliens have anchors tied to their legs.

    The best part is (for the MOST part) the people that don't like bunny hopping are the ones that wouldn't take the very short amount of time to learn it.

    Plus it would be easy to fix the learning curve by just making it so that when you hold down space bar you continuously jumped.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Granted, you'll also notice how much dumber the combats look as well. You'd be better off just increasing movement speed that adding in a stupid looking mechanic that can be replicated without the stupid part. The skulk thing looks promising so long as it looks right. Bunny hopping is not necessary and I keep hearing how it adds skill based movement. You'd think people who could rise to the "challenge" of learning to bunny hop could rise to the challenge of not relying on such a crutch to move faster. NS2 is an atmospheric shooter with a heavy emphasis on tactical spacing in movement, team tactics, situational awareness, and damned good aim. If you can't master those skills you're falling back on bunny hopping as an easy artificial leg up.
    If you can spam space bar you can learn to move as a squad.
    If you can spam space bar you can learn to check corners, ceilings, and floor grates.
    If you can spam space bar you can learn to be dead on with your aim.

    If you can do those things you'll find you don't need bunny hop nor bunny hopping scripts.
    What kind of legacy did BH give to CS? One of exploits and cheating, I don't think I've ever seen a multiplayer game with as many cheaters as CS, and that comes from an overemphasis on win at all costs exploit and glitch gaming that bunny hop spawned form. I don't want to see NS2 rotted from the inside out in the same way. If the UWE team wants to add in some "skill based movement" its going to be in their style, in their atmosphere, and in their paradigm (like how tribes adding ski after the glitch was found), not on some outdated engine glitch that brought about a culture of cheating in CS. Do it legit or don't do it at all.
  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2011
    Now that we know about the alien side.

    <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->What i would like to have back for marines is human ladders(havent tried it yet - maybe that works already :P), going into vents, and a working duckjump...<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1870059:date=Aug 19 2011, 06:23 PM:name=Talesin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talesin @ Aug 19 2011, 06:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870059"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I believe the argument was more of that it started out as an engine bug, and when Valve went to fix it too many 'competitive' players whined and howled up a ****storm about 'skill-based' play being killed, when one of their favorite little cheats was going away. Valve backpedalled as one of their big bread-and-butter draws (let's not kid... their biggest) those days was CS.
    As a result, every other game gets the same treatment, with the same people whining that their script won't give them an advantage any more, when it SHOULD, and anyone else could download the same script if they were leet too.

    Leave it out. Fix the game speeds on a base level, not by replicating an outdated twitch-glitch forcibly kept in place by loud asshats.
    You want skill-based movement? Go Lerk and practice flying. You know, an actual <b>skill</b> (not <i>script</i>) based movement system.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Seems to me like you're the only one being a "loud asshat" here. Why even post, when you don't even know what you're talking about? You don't need a script to bunnyhop in NS. I've never used a script to bunnyhop, but I still mastered it without too much hassle.

    I wrote a lengthy article about the merits of bunnyhopping about a year back, it's still worth reading: <a href="http://www.ninelegends.com/the-argument-for-bunnyhopping/" target="_blank">http://www.ninelegends.com/the-argument-for-bunnyhopping/</a>

    Proposing that some other "skill based movement system" replace bunnyhopping in NS2 is all fine and noble, but it seems unlikely that a small indie team will be able to do what none of the triple A producers have been able to do in the fifteen or so years since it was discovered. Improved wallhopping is a great idea, but it would actually slot in perfectly as an addition to bunnyhopping, not just a replacement (which it seems unlikely that it will be, since bunnyhopping and wallhopping fill different purposes).
  • vizioNzvizioNz InversionNS2.com Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24595Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=1870103:date=Aug 19 2011, 07:00 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 19 2011, 07:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870103"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aaand another bunnyhopping thread crawls up out of the depths to terrorize the community forums with its endless circular arguments.

    At this stage, it's unlikely that BH will make a return in its full NS1 glory, though we understand the value of it on the competitive side. The pros and cons of BH have been stated a million times, so I'm not going to get dragged into that, however I will say that we are working on a variety of ways to get more fleshed out skill based movement into the game, especially for the alien side. It won't be an across the board thing, the way BH was, but rather a focus on the particular aspects of movement of each player class that makes them unique.

    So, for the Skulk, we are working on a wall hopping system that allows for increases in speed based off of timing jumps properly on varying surfaces. Walls, crates, railings, marine structures, etc, with the intention of getting the skulk off of the floor, and using the surrounding environment more. We may even have an early first pass at this for next patch, though no promises.

    We have other plans for the rest of the aliens. For example, there is a lot we could do to really enhance his bellyslide, to make it much more maneuverable as a start, and then to potentially have skill based moves like jumps and drifting that can be performed. Lerk flight is being improved and will likely get more additions/improvements, Fade has blink which comes with a whole host of possibilities, and we've got some ideas already for an Onos charge type of movement system.

    So, there's a long answer to the question of whether or not bunny hop will be in the game.

    --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Cory, why did you even bother touching this!? It's pointless!
  • SkipjackSkipjack Join Date: 2005-04-13 Member: 48323Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1870120:date=Aug 19 2011, 08:28 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Aug 19 2011, 08:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870120"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seems to me like you're the only one being a "loud asshat" here. Why even post, when you don't even know what you're talking about? You don't need a script to bunnyhop in NS. I've never used a script to bunnyhop, but I still mastered it without too much hassle.

    I wrote a lengthy article about the merits of bunnyhopping about a year back, it's still worth reading: <a href="http://www.ninelegends.com/the-argument-for-bunnyhopping/" target="_blank">http://www.ninelegends.com/the-argument-for-bunnyhopping/</a>

    Proposing that some other "skill based movement system" replace bunnyhopping in NS2 is all fine and noble, but it seems unlikely that a small indie team will be able to do what none of the triple A producers have been able to do in the fifteen or so years since it was discovered. Improved wallhopping is a great idea, but it would actually slot in perfectly as an addition to bunnyhopping, not just a replacement (which it seems unlikely that it will be, since bunnyhopping and wallhopping fill different purposes).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    this
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