Skulk nerf leap at second hive
Skuggan
Join Date: 2010-03-19 Member: 71017Members
Join Date: 2010-03-19 Member: 71017Members
<div class="IPBDescription">One single thread for this</div>I my self think that the balance lmg marine vs skulk are fine.
I have never seen this early skulk domination that Charlie talks about.
So what do other people think? Should the devs reject this change for build
Edit*
This is not a trollpost. The change im refering to are the one in this link:
<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/139ySUrBsO0m0Z4ilq0YsDEHJLQhBa6RrIjJIsckL2kE/edit?hl=en&authkey=CLCo8Z0J" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/document/d/139ySUrB...uthkey=CLCo8Z0J</a>
"- Skulks are dominating pretty hard-core and I think it’s because of Leap. Moved Leap to TwoHive research on the Shift."
I have never seen this early skulk domination that Charlie talks about.
So what do other people think? Should the devs reject this change for build
Edit*
This is not a trollpost. The change im refering to are the one in this link:
<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/139ySUrBsO0m0Z4ilq0YsDEHJLQhBa6RrIjJIsckL2kE/edit?hl=en&authkey=CLCo8Z0J" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/document/d/139ySUrB...uthkey=CLCo8Z0J</a>
"- Skulks are dominating pretty hard-core and I think it’s because of Leap. Moved Leap to TwoHive research on the Shift."
Comments
Even though the skulk has leap you can hit it before it comes close so when its close it does not have alot of HP. Ten bullets out of fifty to kill it?
What makes the game slower is non bunnyhopping skulks and having to reserch leap everytime you die.
If you are concerned about the speed of the game, than a better request would be to increase the base movement speed.
Full leap meaning extra distance and I can leap mid air. A combination of Lazy and Mokkat's ideas :)
This makes it a good tactical option that can't overwhelm the marines.
I think taking away leap will be a big mistake because it's pretty crucial at the moment. Even with it, it's hard to jump away from a group of marines even when you're keeping an eye out.
*Sigh*
Well, sad day for skulks indeed.
I don't understand where the impression that they are 'strong' or 'dominating' is coming from.
If you are concerned about the speed of the game, than a better request would be to increase the base movement speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you suggesting that early game should be all about stealth gameplay from the alien side? Sounds very passive and slow paced to me.
If you remove leap there will be an early game miss balance since skulks won't have anything to charge marines with where in NS 1 they'd have bunny hopping available from hive 1.
Sure you can scale walls and ceilings but how are you gonna defend your hive if you don't have the speed to attack a marine who has already established a covered position?
If you remove leap there will be an early game miss balance since skulks won't have anything to charge marines with where in NS 1 they'd have bunny hopping available from hive 1.
Sure you can scale walls and ceilings but how are you gonna defend your hive if you don't have the speed to attack a marine who has already established a covered position?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
which is why this "fix" won't do anything but hurt aliens while this change wasn't good to begin with.
the game lacks skill based movement, and charlie needs to realize this some time, and at least add that to the alien race.
the aliens need to be more agile than they are now, their movement shouldn't feel sluggish and restricted.
the people who complained about skulk leap usually same people who demand being able to kill fade's 1v1, because if they can kill fade 1v1, its balanced in their eyes.
pretty scary thinking if you ask me.
I seriously hope corrects alien movement to be as agile as ns1 aliens.
I think taking away leap will be a big mistake because it's pretty crucial at the moment. Even with it, it's hard to jump away from a group of marines even when you're keeping an eye out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why are you even talking about shotguns? By the time Marines have shotguns, the Aliens should have a second hive. The nerf should apply to the early game, where the skulk advantage is ridiculous. If you can't do better than a 1:1 ratio as a skulk when the Marines just have LMGs, than it sounds more of a personal issue than a balance problem.
<!--quoteo(post=1854060:date=Jun 17 2011, 06:13 PM:name=pkmnhmstr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pkmnhmstr @ Jun 17 2011, 06:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1854060"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you suggesting that early game should be all about stealth gameplay from the alien side? Sounds very passive and slow paced to me.
If you remove leap there will be an early game miss balance since skulks won't have anything to charge marines with where in NS 1 they'd have bunny hopping available from hive 1.
Sure you can scale walls and ceilings but how are you gonna defend your hive if you don't have the speed to attack a marine who has already established a covered position?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I'm suggesting is that when you play as a skulk, you don't just run straight down a long hallway when Marines are at the other end shooting at you. Try to play like Marines have ranged weapons, and what you have is teeth. Use your brain.
On the forums, all I see are people who are raging about Aliens getting nerfs. This would be fine, except every time that I actually play the game as a Marine, we get destroyed. It happens even when you can tell that our team is far more coordinated and skilled than the other team. Skulks, as they are right now, dominate Marines early on (vs. LMG's, which is what is being addressed. Are you guys that bad at Aliens? Hell, I know that I'm a mediocre Alien player, and I absolutely dominate against Marines even in 1v2 situations (If they have LMGs).
I think that a base speed increase for skulks (Not anything mind blowing, maybe 15%) would be a good idea, and I'd love to see it implemented, IF Marines get a researchable buff to the LMG. An interesting idea would be incendiary or armor piercing ammo.
I just finished playing a game where I was skulk for the majority of it, and for the heck of it I decided to play the ENTIRE game without leap. I easily maintained a 1:1 KDR, well after the other team had flamethrowers, etc.
+1
Come to think of it....Couldn't marines instantly drop SGs as soon as the armory was built(NS1), and leap was a hive 2 skill??
Yeah that was possible, I think only GL's and HMG's required research. Though on the flip side, Aliens didn't need two hives to Fade or go Onos
Wow imagine that.. players actually using the units properly, hiding, scaling walls, and ambushing, kind of the entire point of the skulks early game and having wall walk. I remember this being one of the bright spots in NS1, having to peek and check EVERY corner and tops of the door ways to avoid and ambush. Now its all, charging straight and ahead and leaping right into a pack of marines.. so long for the sense of tension and atmosphere, just became one massive frag fest killing the immersion.
There you go, the skulk can now close the gap at the start without having a super leap, and when the 2nd hive goes up the skulks get a boost with leap.
There you go, the skulk can now close the gap at the start without having a super leap, and when the 2nd hive goes up the skulks get a boost with leap.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not everyone wants to jump around the map looking like a retard just to gain a speed boost. The starting leap is key for skulks mobility. We already have everyone in the entire game jumping during combat, the last thing we need is everyone jumping all the time as a necessity for travel too!
In combination with ambushing, the leap provides an excellent escape from surprise doubles and such. Its more than just a tool for leaping straight down a hallway into a marines face. The marines require range to do most of their killing, the skulks require very close combat to do theirs. There HAS to be a way for skulks to close the gap , and as I already mentioned zig zagging down a hallway jumping up and down is not an answer to this problem.
A bigger problem if you have a rifle, this weapon is becoming weaker and weaker every patch. It doesn't put out nearly the dps as the shotgun at any range and another thing is that your fighting skulks/fades that close the gap on you instantly(making shotgun always the better choice). If you are really far away the pistol kills any target way faster with way better accuracy, rifle aint doing nothing to nobody at distance. It better get some serious marine side upgrade capabilities somewhere later in the game, it needs a niche.
Also, the skulk doesn't feel like an "alien" alien at the moment, its a bit too slow for that.