Are you satisfied with the new fade blink?

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Comments

  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    The new blink is nearly perfect.

    What needs tweaking is probably fade HP and the alien resource model. But the blink itself is fun to use, and fun to fight against (sooo scary)
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    It's not there yet.

    Purely movement wise it's just an inferior, less fluent version of the NS1 3.0 blink. The teleport adds some new possibilities, but I also see it being quite problematic.

    Fade risks becoming a glass cannon. I'm not sure how far you can compensate the aiming challenge of marines by dropping fade HP. Even if it's difficult to hit there's always a possibility of some marine doing some sweet snap aiming and there isn't the fade can do to estimate that. It's not good if the fade has to start from an assumption that the enemy is going to miss his shots. Some of that comes naturally with the melee vs ranged setting, but it's one of the elements I don't want to see emphasized in any way.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1852037:date=Jun 12 2011, 10:58 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Jun 12 2011, 10:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852037"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not there yet.

    Purely movement wise it's just an inferior, less fluent version of the NS1 3.0 blink. The teleport adds some new possibilities, but I also see it being quite problematic.

    Fade risks becoming a glass cannon. I'm not sure how far you can compensate the aiming challenge of marines by dropping fade HP. Even if it's difficult to hit there's always a possibility of some marine doing some sweet snap aiming and there isn't the fade can do to estimate that. It's not good if the fade has to start from an assumption that the enemy is going to miss his shots. Some of that comes naturally with the melee vs ranged setting, but it's one of the elements I don't want to see emphasized in any way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    But that's the entire conceit of multiplayer pvp gameplay. The players assume their actions will make them hard to hit and that their aiming ability will be better than the other guy's.
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1852039:date=Jun 12 2011, 11:05 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jun 12 2011, 11:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852039"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But that's the entire conceit of multiplayer pvp gameplay. The players assume their actions will make them hard to hit and that their aiming ability will be better than the other guy's.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's a lot more about controlling the odds by choosing how and when you engage and fight. Against decent marines you can pretty much expect to get hit if you give them a chance. There's some extra trickery in dodging and such, but it's mostly built on top of the core decisionmaking of when and how the engagements happen.

    Original blink and sizeable HP pool gave fade enough of margin that you could pretty consistently estimate how long you can withstand under fire while still having enough to get back alive and heal up. The lower the HP pool gets and the more inconsistent the damage you take, the more fade risks moving away from that core decisionmaking focus.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    edited June 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1852052:date=Jun 12 2011, 11:40 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Jun 12 2011, 11:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852052"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's a lot more about controlling the odds by choosing how and when you engage and fight. Against decent marines you can pretty much expect to get hit if you give them a chance. There's some extra trickery in dodging and such, but it's mostly built on top of the core decisionmaking of when and how the engagements happen.

    Original blink and sizeable HP pool gave fade enough of margin that you could pretty consistently estimate how long you can withstand under fire while still having enough to get back alive and heal up. The lower the HP pool gets and the more inconsistent the damage you take, the more fade risks moving away from that core decisionmaking focus.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Which is still true for the current blink.

    The current blink allows you to get to odd locations on the map, and infestation (or just your own eyes) allows you to track marine movements and pick a good place to engage them. You can also use the current blink to distract marines, blinking around near them will draw their attention and maybe cause them to go investigate, while you can hide round a corner and murder them as they go past, I've done that recently and it works, that's a major part of the fade's strength.

    Unfortunately, the fade can currently also just blink right up to a dude and smack him in the face because he has loads of health, so there isn't a large need for the other stuff. Playing intelligently is currently the difference between half a dozen and a dozen kills per life, it should be the difference between say two and six skills. I want to encourage use of the blink ability in more complex and unusual ways to succeed rather than relying more on just being inherently confusing and hard to kill by virtue of being a fade that can blink around constantly.

    I should perhaps expand that 'being hard to hit' includes 'attacking from a direction the player wouldn't expect or wouldn't even see coming because you made them think you're somewhere else' and your aiming ability being better than the other guys includes avoiding large groups of people who are more likely to be able to hit you due to there being more of them, or them being able to shoot you while you are attacking someone else, etc.

    It's a simplification but I find it does encompass everything you can do to succeed in the game.
  • BarerRudeROCBarerRudeROC Join Date: 2010-10-01 Member: 74264Members
    Can't we all just get along?

    As Scythe stated earlier, Blink should not leave a trail.
    I believe Blink to be great as of the current build, it's just RFK which tends to be in favour of the Kharaa, and the majority of late games give unmeasurable amounts of resources.

    The mutually agreed upon balance will be put in place in no time.
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1851963:date=Jun 12 2011, 03:30 AM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scythe @ Jun 12 2011, 03:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1851963"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some of you people need to look up the word "blink" and its meaning in this context. The fade DISAPPEARS from one location and APPEARS in another. The fade DOES NOT BLOODY FLY THROUGH THE FRIGGING AIR. It should not leave trails, it should not be shootable. Hell, I'd go so far as to say it shouldn't collide with models whilst blinking.

    --Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah. I always look at WoW's blink and thought that got it spot on, like when the mage disappears and blinks bank in about 15 metres away or so.
  • NurEinMenschNurEinMensch Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1852019:date=Jun 12 2011, 09:56 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jun 12 2011, 09:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852019"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I always thought NS1 blink looked silly. The fade flying around with arms and legs flailing....no indication how it was doing that either.

    Teleporting/travelling invisible/shifting through dimensions is what makes the fade so uniquely cool.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This times 1000.
  • BriligBrilig Join Date: 2009-01-01 Member: 65938Members
    I still think the blink should look like it did to the marines in the fade reveal. Whatever UWE needs to do to give players the kind of blink control the fade in the video has im all for it. I think this new blink with straifing would be perfect. ( <a href="http://www.naturalselection2.com/videos" target="_blank">Fade reveal</a>)
  • xVisionsxVisions Join Date: 2009-07-03 Member: 68021Members
    edited June 2011
    From a marine perspective that fade blink seems really crazy good right now.
    I havn't played as fade since it was changed but it seems to me that the fade can blink a crazy amount really fast.. which isn't bad.. its way more exciting how fast the game play is but id be weary of the energy costs of it(might be on the low side)

    Possible upgrades in the future such as gaining energy from killing targets would be cool. I know there isn't all of the marine weapons/upgrades in the game yet but as it is right now fades are pretty hard to take out.

    Also wish there was alot more lingering smoke effect after a fade has entered back from the blink.. so the room starts clouding up or something.
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    I find it easier to kill fades now. Before, a fade could go anywhere, now it's limited somewhat.
  • ZycaRZycaR Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8263Members
    edited June 2011
    Fades should not have air control (as it's now)... their are now vulnerable when trying to escape, because they cannot turn around corners in blink "state".

    they need to blink-out at end of escape route -- then turn around -- and then blink-in in another way.
    As marine you can count on it and aim the nearest escape route .. fade "will" blink-out there and you can finish him :D
  • ZycaRZycaR Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8263Members
    edited June 2011
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