Development Blog Update - Alien view mode experiments

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  • WarmongerWarmonger Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13126Members, Constellation
    I think that last effect would look totally bad-ass for the marines scanner sweep if it originated from a central point outward to a predetermined distance (like the original / current scanner sweep). I don't think the last effect would work well for aliens though.

    This was one of the best videos you guys have put up and it was <b>VERY</b> entertaining - I was sad to see it end. Even if none of this made it in the game it was still awesome to get a glimpse into a creative session.
  • NeoSniperNeoSniper Join Date: 2005-06-02 Member: 52976Members
    edited February 2011
    There's something so cool about watching the raw creative process of the team thanks for sharing that. Kudos to Max for the speedy on the fly coding there, impresive.

    So excited I must add my two (or six) cents!

    0) I hope aliens end up having more than one special vision.

    1) 1st effect was my fav for alien flashlight because it really highlights geometry showing that aliens can "sense" the rooms in the dark, tradeoff could be that you can't see well at a distance in this mode. Also marines could have counter measures to this with the flares/glowstick ideas.

    2) I don't like Cory's idea of having the effect fade in and out automatically. Think it's better to have it be a button toggle allowing the player more strategy and decision making. Smooth fading when the player pressed the button? That yes! Could top to bottom pulse effect when switching viewmodes.

    3) the pulsing effect could be an active abilities for one lifeform or chamber and would reveal enemies briefly across walls in nearby other rooms. The marine sweep also seem a good fit, including.

    <b>4) For more ideas and inspiration as to how vision tradeoffs could work, I would HIGHLY recommend you take a look at the multiplayer for the second splinter cell game (Pandora Tomorrow i think). That's the one I played so I can tell you for sure that each team had 2 special viewmodes aside from normal so it 4 special viewmodes total.
    </b>

    5) new idea! The echolocation pulse effect thingie could be used as the 3rd alien viewmode. Where the aliens can listen closely for marines out of line of sight for ambushing. Basically the alien would SEE any noise that marines make. Tradeoffs: a) Alien must remain still, if alien moves the vision get highly distorted b) Loud noises like nearby gunfire will also highly distort this vision.

    I'm too old a man to be getting giddy over such things, but I am!

    PS: At 5:03 it looks like how Neo sees the matrix.
  • yimmasabiyimmasabi Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58318Members
    edited February 2011
    I must say that these videos are the first internet videos by a professional gaming company where shown natural working atmosphere here. That is really great. I never see any videos while someone developing something like that. This makes your company again different from others.
    Think that Im far far away from USA and I just learn clearly how a gaming company works, how they are looks like, what is office atmosphere there, how they effects, jokes with each other :) Ohhh, wowww, yeeaaahhh , aaaaah yeaeee ! :)

    That was the most interesting video for me.

    For the effect I can say that;
    1. for an alien view there should be an advantage from the normal view. My best is Predetor view where you can easily detect marines from a complex jungle. Consider that alien view should have an great advantage.

    In NS1 alien view has this too but I was just using it while I was hiding behind an RT. I can say that i use it may be 1 game per 100 games.
    So there should be something much more preferable then normal view where people switches to that.

    2. In addition, remove yellow lines from the teeths, it looks like old graphics from away.

    3. If there is a great advantage there should be a limit for viewing, ie. view stamina like flashlight which turns off after a while

    4. I dont think that an alien view has scaning lines like that remove lines and insert something blury, cloudy things imao like fade blink effect.
    It looks like a marine view if it is blue or green with those scan lines.

    Regards
  • TwiggehTwiggeh Join Date: 2010-09-24 Member: 74165Members
    The ReadyRoom raves are drawing closer. Thank you UWE :D
  • neilm86neilm86 Join Date: 2009-04-16 Member: 67198Members
    i think 'alien flashlight' is necassary but it should have a 'punishment' for using it. Maybe it should use energy and hive sight is disabled?
  • FuzionMonkeyFuzionMonkey Join Date: 2005-05-04 Member: 50889Members
    Cool effects! I'm looking forward to seeing more of this.

    Also, the on-the-fly editing is super cool. Its amazing how you can change something then instantly see it in-game.
  • l3lessedl3lessed Join Date: 2010-06-07 Member: 71977Members
    edited February 2011
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i think 'alien flashlight' is necassary but it should have a 'punishment' for using it. Maybe it should use energy and hive sight is disabled?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This is a bad type of punishment. Aliens should be able to use it as long as they want. However, they need to know when to use it properly. Make it so that in lighted areas it is ineffective because it causes a mild blindness; something like the affect at 31 seconds. This would make using the flashlight, and possibly flares if they ever make an apparency, more engrossing and important then ever.
  • kingmobkingmob Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3650Members, Constellation
    Great stuff indeed.

    You could maybe balance it using the flashlight.
    If the flashlight is pointed at its face its blinded.

    would increase the use of the flashlight which would also make aliens dodgy-er <----Not a word.
  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Members
    Hmm, if they're going with the first iteration (thermal vision), I suggest they add an overlay similar to near-death where it blurs the sides somewhat (to make it feel like the alien's iris contracts) and have the overlay fade in and out as well.
  • s0ks0k Join Date: 2010-02-07 Member: 70473Members
    I liked Corey's idea of having the thermal effect blend. In the light areas, have it normal, I still want to see the game's artwork while I'm an alien. But in the dark, especially when you cut a node, it seems very practical, not just a pretty effect to look at.
  • yourbonesakinyourbonesakin Join Date: 2005-08-06 Member: 57682Members
    edited February 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=0:date=Feb 10th 2011, 10:43PM:name=Charlie Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charlie Flayra @ Feb 10th 2011, 10:43PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh my gosh. That's like predator mode but... on acid. That is SO cool looking. We have to figure out a way to put that in there!

    ... That is just badass.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    FUGGIN' SIGGED :D

    ...

    I got nerd chills when I saw that hot loading. "Hey can you make it more intense in dark areas?" "Yeah, that's easy" *less than 10 lines of code, commenting some stuff out* Boom.

    It was also awesome to see all the staff geeking out on the visual effects just as much as me! Video gamers unite!
  • l3lessedl3lessed Join Date: 2010-06-07 Member: 71977Members
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I liked Corey's idea of having the thermal effect blend. In the light areas, have it normal, I still want to see the game's artwork while I'm an alien. But in the dark, especially when you cut a node, it seems very practical, not just a pretty effect to look at.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Thats fine, but what is the point of ever turning it off then. And if that's the case you might as well always keep it on all the time and not even make it an option. Which I guess would be fine
  • yourbonesakinyourbonesakin Join Date: 2005-08-06 Member: 57682Members
    You know, guys...

    If the aliens get sonar, they'd have to see sounds. That would be an AWESOME detail of immersion. Visual representations of sound waves originating from the locations of sound files being played (like marines firing guns, walking, jumping, etc.). They could flow around corners!
  • sheena_yanaisheena_yanai Join Date: 2002-12-23 Member: 11426Members
    oh my god that sonar sweep is so cool.
    maybe the sonar pulse speed, not the intervals should be a lil bit faster
  • sheena_yanaisheena_yanai Join Date: 2002-12-23 Member: 11426Members
    edited February 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1831357:date=Feb 11 2011, 06:38 PM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Feb 11 2011, 06:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831357"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know, guys...

    If the aliens get sonar, they'd have to see sounds. That would be an AWESOME detail of immersion. Visual representations of sound waves originating from the locations of sound files being played (like marines firing guns, walking, jumping, etc.). They could flow around corners!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->



    BUT


    if the marine stops moving, he would be like virtualy invisible :P (oh that yould be kinda sweet, but someone said once there wont be any ninjaing anymore)
    i would make aliens having a composite sound/heat signature vision, and to add some more immersion to it , make some map prefabs like steampipes and machinery which emmits heat for their view, or add some sort of way to flag such things in the editor



    omg, that alien view thing is quite exciting, and it was an awesome demonstration how powerfull your editing tools are, messing on the fly with that stuff
  • yourbonesakinyourbonesakin Join Date: 2005-08-06 Member: 57682Members
    Someone needs to reddit this in the gaming subreddit. It's 1am right now so I shouldn't do it.

    I think it'd really make a splash over there! There's 375,000 subscribers to that sub reddit.
  • RokiyoRokiyo A.K.A. .::FeX::. Revenge Join Date: 2002-10-10 Member: 1471Members, Constellation
    edited February 2011
    Holy crap that was excellent to watch. Great work guys. I'm glad to hear that division by pi and zero is working out so well for you. :P

    That sweeping effect at the end looked too "high tech" for aliens... But it would look absolutely awesome as a Marine "scanner sweep" type effect. For example recolour the effect to blue, then have it sweep outwards like it was doing at the end of the video. As the "sweep" hits and highlights alien structures & players, a HUD "lock-on" animation & sounds plays at their location (and perhaps adding their locations to the minimap temporarily). The blue highlight then fades out to normal (instead of a second sweep clearing the effect). Mad props and epic bonus points if you can have the point of origin of the sweep coming from the the source of the scan instead of from the player's current location.

    For the aliens, I would really like to see a subtle "always on effect", where the strength of that highlight & outline effect is inversely proportional to the amount of light cast upon the texture. For example if I'm standing still in a dimly lit hallway, looking at 2 side-by-side doorways that lead into different rooms, where one room is pitch black and the other is brightly lit, then ideally I'd like to see the effect at half strength in my immediate surroundings, full strength in the pitch black room and not at all in the brightly lit room.
  • whoppaXXLwhoppaXXL Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58298Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Man you're the coolest Dev's ever! Max you're a genius!
  • LoeyLoey Join Date: 2009-10-31 Member: 69187Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1831357:date=Feb 11 2011, 08:38 PM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Feb 11 2011, 08:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831357"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know, guys...

    If the aliens get sonar, they'd have to see sounds. That would be an AWESOME detail of immersion. Visual representations of sound waves originating from the locations of sound files being played (like marines firing guns, walking, jumping, etc.). They could flow around corners!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    sonar has nothing to do with seeing sound

    <!--quoteo(post=1831359:date=Feb 11 2011, 08:42 PM:name=sheena_yanai)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sheena_yanai @ Feb 11 2011, 08:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831359"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->BUT


    if the marine stops moving, he would be like virtualy invisible :P (oh that yould be kinda sweet, but someone said once there wont be any ninjaing anymore)
    i would make aliens having a composite sound/heat signature vision, and to add some<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    no he wouldnt. sonar sends out certain frequency pulses and receiving and measuring the echo. even if the marine is stationary, the sound waves will be reflected back off him and picked up by the alien which is then used to determine his location.

    think of bats, they dont fly into stationary trees because do they?
  • PricePrice Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
    amazing work guys!
  • RokiyoRokiyo A.K.A. .::FeX::. Revenge Join Date: 2002-10-10 Member: 1471Members, Constellation
    edited February 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1831368:date=Feb 11 2011, 08:40 PM:name=Loey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Loey @ Feb 11 2011, 08:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831368"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->sonar has nothing to do with seeing sound


    no he wouldnt. sonar sends out certain frequency pulses and receiving and measuring the echo. even if the marine is stationary, the sound waves will be reflected back off him and picked up by the alien which is then used to determine his location.

    think of bats, they dont fly into stationary trees because do they?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Ok ok, seeing sound is a form of synesthesia, and if you are using a passive sonar system then you would indeed stop detecting a target if the target stopped producing sound. In any case, shooting down some really cool sounding suggestions for the sake of semantics isn't really all that helpful. If you were that bothered by it, you could have chosen to educate them instead.
  • l3lessedl3lessed Join Date: 2010-06-07 Member: 71977Members
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As the "sweep" hits and highlights alien structures & players, a HUD "lock-on" animation & sounds plays at their location (and perhaps adding their locations to the minimap temporarily). The blue highlight then fades out to normal (instead of a second sweep clearing the effect).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That would be sweet. A lock-on on alien lifeforms that show their info like current health for like half a minute or so when pinged.

    Could this be varied for different alien life forms? Skulks and gorges use heat, lerks use a sonar type bat system that originates from them, a fade can use both, and so on.
  • intellixintellix Join Date: 2008-03-24 Member: 63950Members
    I would have thought the pulses would come from the Hive... I'm not sure where the pulses come from in the video but was expecting one of the members of the team to mention it :D I guess that's planned anyway?

    Looked wicked and I'd definitely prefer it to the old flashlight thing in NS1
  • sheena_yanaisheena_yanai Join Date: 2002-12-23 Member: 11426Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1831280:date=Feb 11 2011, 01:41 PM:name=PersianImm0rtal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PersianImm0rtal @ Feb 11 2011, 01:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831280"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please give the Marines the ability to buy Thermal Vision Goggles!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    you want to ruin the game?
    thats exactly one of the things which destroyed the game gloom. aliens need the ability to hide in the dark, so they can use their short range attacks, marines with their ranged weapons just could pick them out one by one if they would have thermals. and its not really gritty low tech enough, old, gainy, slightly burned out light amplification goggles would do the job maybe, but marines are not supposed to see in the dark, except using their flashlights and maybe flares
  • Viper_two_nine_AViper_two_nine_A Join Date: 2004-09-29 Member: 31989Members
    Nice experiments guys. The "it should be something like sonar" quote from someone of you made me think of a more bat-like "vision" system - that would contribute to the atmosphere, too. (Apparently it was not only me but quite a bunch of people, so ill mix in some of the already quoted ideas here)


    But before starting off - here comes the negative part:

    * The kind of effekt in the video looks technical way too much. It might work for a marines night vision though.


    Suggestions for alien sonar vision ("bat") mode:

    * Think of how bats hunt: They emit a call/scream to locate their prey.
    -> Imagine the same in NS2: Skulks running around in the dark - screaming in an unusual way to be able to see. For the duration of a scream everything gets brighter, but screams cost adrenaline. So as soon as there is no noise the aliens view gets (almost as) dark as the marines view.

    This would also help marines a little bit to locate skulks and thus compensate a little bit for the night vision ability

    * As every moving thing also emits sound these objects will also "light up" on the view, the brighter the faster they move. So marines would have an incentive to sneak in the dark, causing them to bear the darkness filled with animal screams for longer.
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members
    edited February 2011
    Wonderful video guys!!!!!

    I'm really seeing the green pulsing effect shown around 5:20 working for the marine's radar ability, in blue instead of green. For the exosuit maybe? Each pulse would uncloak aliens within range or something. The yellow alien vision seems suitable for gorges but doesnt have a menacing feel you would expect from a fade or skulk.

    Really blown away by how awesome those effects are!

    ^ the screaming skulk sonar idea in the post above is great :DDD
  • sheena_yanaisheena_yanai Join Date: 2002-12-23 Member: 11426Members
    edited February 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1831368:date=Feb 11 2011, 08:40 PM:name=Loey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Loey @ Feb 11 2011, 08:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831368"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->sonar has nothing to do with seeing sound


    no he wouldnt. sonar sends out certain frequency pulses and receiving and measuring the echo. even if the marine is stationary, the sound waves will be reflected back off him and picked up by the alien which is then used to determine his location.

    think of bats, they dont fly into stationary trees because do they?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    in fact bats "see" the sounds because the hearing center in their brains is interlinked to the visual system, its the same way dogs can see smells, and snakes see body heat, even though its not picked up by their eyes, but by the heat sensing dimples around their mouth, the brain just overlaps both informations to an image, sharks are even able to see the body elecricity in your muscles with organs located on the sides of the sharks body. the same way a bat is picking up a sonar echo and visualize it, works with other frequencys and sounds aswell. because they have unlike a electronic active sonar not just one ear, but two, enabling them to use passive sonar, like modern submarines do, just bats are way more efficient and accurate doing it. you just have to imagine how the sonar image of a bat must look like when throusands of bats swarm out at night, and their screams overlap, it forms a very plastic image of the surroundings, refreshed thousands of times in a second, with each bat just having to do a pulse every few seconds, but it sums up with their mass. evolution has wonderful ways.
    uwe should try to learn from its ways :p just imagine skulks hunting in packs sonaring together, saving alot of adrenaline that way if its going to use it
  • intellixintellix Join Date: 2008-03-24 Member: 63950Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1831376:date=Feb 11 2011, 12:48 PM:name=sheena_yanai)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sheena_yanai @ Feb 11 2011, 12:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831376"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you want to ruin the game?
    thats exactly one of the things which destroyed the game gloom. aliens need the ability to hide in the dark, so they can use their short range attacks, marines with their ranged weapons just could pick them out one by one if they would have thermals. and its not really gritty low tech enough, old, gainy, slightly burned out light amplification goggles would do the job maybe, but marines are not supposed to see in the dark, except using their flashlights and maybe flares<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I was thinking it was a good idea but then yeah I guess you're right about aliens needing to have the darkness advantage. How does this work in competitive play though? Cause surely it will become common practise to just play with really high brightness so you can see everything. Will UW ever lock brightness, contast... can they?
  • sheena_yanaisheena_yanai Join Date: 2002-12-23 Member: 11426Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1831382:date=Feb 11 2011, 10:09 PM:name=intellix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (intellix @ Feb 11 2011, 10:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831382"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was thinking it was a good idea but then yeah I guess you're right about aliens needing to have the darkness advantage. How does this work in competitive play though? Cause surely it will become common practise to just play with really high brightness so you can see everything. Will UW ever lock brightness, contast... can they?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    they could, by making everything dark just render absolute black
    , impossible to crank any gamma on that
  • sheena_yanaisheena_yanai Join Date: 2002-12-23 Member: 11426Members
    edited February 2011
    whoops.. doublepost
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