Recycle for aliens plz!

obsidobsid Join Date: 2003-09-16 Member: 20909Members
It seems that if you build things too close to a RT/Hive, you cant build that hive/RT. As such we need some way to recycle/kill a structure as a comm for aliens. Make it limited (to like 1 per min or something) and let the whole alien team know what got recycled, so that people dont abuse it.

Without this a new alien comm can easily mess up several resnodes/hives making it much harder for the aliens to come back latter.

Comments

  • lunsluns Join Date: 2010-12-05 Member: 75502Members
    developers have to restrict building near those areas and any other important spots where it might block something. And that should fix this problem. Aside from that, not being able to recycle as an alien commander or gorge is annoying - ns1 solved this problem by adding 3rd party mod into the game since aliens never gotten recycle option as they should have. 100% agree with you, must be added.
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi! Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    Biodump those structures Comm, stat!
  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Members
    I agree that Tech Points and Resource Nodes need to prevent anything other than Command Stations/Hives and Extractors/Harvesters to be placed on them.

    As for alien recycle, an "Ungrow" ability that shrinks the building, a non-instant recycle that takes time, but can be activated at any time (whereas Recycle is instant but can only work for buildings with 50% health).
  • mrcmrc Join Date: 2011-01-30 Member: 79589Members
    I would say atleast recycle for Gorges of the game.
    It is annoying to plant all those plants in place X only to see that nobody walks there anyways
  • NurEinMenschNurEinMensch Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation
    Aliens can do fine without recycle. Keep the teams a little different.
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    no need for recycle, but indeed, the hydra blocking RTs and hives should be solved
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Nobuild area entity!
  • GeneralBowserGeneralBowser Join Date: 2010-05-19 Member: 71801Members
    no need for recycle and in the future alliens can move structures to prevent this kind of thing from happening..
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    yeah. just the problem of hydras and badly places crags. but i dont worry, that will sort itself out with all features implemented
  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Members
    Wait... so Hives can be built off Tech Points? I don't think I interpretted the tweet correctly lol?
  • RuntehRunteh Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    If you build a res tower near to a Hive or a Hydra/Crag/Whip near or on a tech point you can not build a hive.

    It is a bug at the moment.
  • TomgupperTomgupper Join Date: 2006-11-11 Member: 58529Members, Constellation
    It's a pity the two sides are slowly morphing into basically the same gameplay style. One of the things I liked best about NS1 was the lack of Alien commander. Ah wells :D

    In saying that, I don't think aliens need a recycle. There wasn't a recycle in NS1 and it worked just fine.
    If you absolutely needed a recycle, possibly allow gorges to 'eat' a structure, absorbing the construction materials, and allowing them to place it in another spot? Sort of a relocation rather than a recycle? (of course, the gorge doesn't HAVE to re-place it anywhere).
  • DelphicDelphic Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58262Members
    @Tomgupper.... but then I could go gorge <b>nom </b>all the structures and then morph to Onos.
  • MrGreenMrGreen Join Date: 2010-12-10 Member: 75602Members
    The only problem I have is when I put a whip next to a marine res tower to kill it, I then can't lay a harvester once the marine res tower is destroyed.
    Hives and res towers should be exempt from being blocked by other structures.
    I think that's sufficient really.
  • PricePrice Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
    agree, aliens need something which allow them to recycle.
    If they out of res, and marines have killed their rts, they have lost, but if the same happend to marines, they can sell sentrys, armory, and all the other buildings.
    And voila saved, but aliens are f...d
  • SheepherdSheepherd Join Date: 2009-07-15 Member: 68143Members
    how about the plants built @ hive location move away to the nearest free spot by themselves as soon as the hive is planted?
    they are living organisms anyways and we got dynamic infestation :)
  • QuovatisQuovatis Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Yep, I'd say a good 50% of the marine victories I've played in have been from the aliens losing all their harvesters and can't build any more. As was pointed out, the marines can recycle sentries, spare IPs, observatories, or even a spare CC to get more resources and build more extractors. Plus extractors take much longer to kill than harvesters. Two marines with shotguns hunting harvesters is pretty much GG as they are hard to stop and they can take out a harvester in about 5 seconds. Two skulks would take a good 20 seconds to take an extractor out. Aliens need recycle, or at least a 50% increase in harvester health.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1828798:date=Jan 31 2011, 05:25 AM:name=NurEinMensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ Jan 31 2011, 05:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828798"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens can do fine without recycle. Keep the teams a little different.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    There are better ways to distinguish the sides then not giving aliens recycle. Sometimes I place a structures in a wrong/bugged/stupid location. Why shouldn't I be able to fix that by recycling?
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    I hate that argument, "keep the teams a little different", even though just making them more similar in these small details would make them immensely more balanceable. It's not as if there isn't enough differentiation.
  • SquidgetSquidget Join Date: 2003-06-13 Member: 17334Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1829334:date=Feb 2 2011, 11:30 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Feb 2 2011, 11:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829334"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hate that argument, "keep the teams a little different", even though just making them more similar in these small details would make them immensely more balanceable. It's not as if there isn't enough differentiation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Concur. It's also a very weak upside compared to the severity of the problem. For instance, I recall that two big stated goals of NS2 are:
    * make comming easier
    * make the game more accessible

    The idea that you have to basically float 15 carbon just in case shotgun marines suicide rush all your RTs kinda fails both tests. Sure, veterans will know this, but novices will probably not. It's the kind of experience that turns people off.

    It's also just not a good design that the aliens can effectively lose, but are forced to keep playing for a while. (This problem is also fixable by a 'concede vote' option.)

    I'm definitely of the belief that you shouldn't be able to play into a no-win scenario so easily. And if differentiation is so important, there are different ways to provide "emergency income." It's easy to come up with other mechanics that fit an alien theme, several have already been suggested.
  • NeoSniperNeoSniper Join Date: 2005-06-02 Member: 52976Members
    Last 3 games I just played (as alien)

    - drawn out loss because we had 2 hives but no res. We almost got them back to because of some Lerk harass and skulk killing their IP. However they had enough money to keep making more IP and more sentries. Must have killed like 3 sentries in my Last lerk life. From there it was skulks holding for like 10 minutes. But no hope of winning any more
    - 2 skulks rushed IP game won I like 1 min
    - again loss all our Harvesters but went all in with Fades + Lerk and got their IP and won.

    I don't think we need recicle but we sure need to fix that no harvester situation. Seems like it's to easy to win by getting the IP and also by getting the Havester. Maybe it just too many new players who don't defend properly.

    Perfomancewise the game where pretty fun for the most part. Shotgunning lerk/fades is so awesome.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1829562:date=Feb 4 2011, 12:20 AM:name=NeoSniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoSniper @ Feb 4 2011, 12:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829562"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Last 3 games I just played (as alien)

    - drawn out loss because we had 2 hives but no res. We almost got them back to because of some Lerk harass and skulk killing their IP. However they had enough money to keep making more IP and more sentries. Must have killed like 3 sentries in my Last lerk life. From there it was skulks holding for like 10 minutes. But no hope of winning any more
    - 2 skulks rushed IP game won I like 1 min
    - again loss all our Harvesters but went all in with Fades + Lerk and got their IP and won.

    I don't think we need recicle but we sure need to fix that no harvester situation. Seems like it's to easy to win by getting the IP and also by getting the Havester. Maybe it just too many new players who don't defend properly.

    Perfomancewise the game where pretty fun for the most part. Shotgunning lerk/fades is so awesome.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Recycle should be included for reasons other than getting carbon to build a harvester. In general, its a more novice-commander friendly feature by reducing the penalty for poor structure placement.
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