So, about this alien commander...

LocaneLocane Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22882Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Trepidation about changes</div>Every NS fan I've talked to is sketchy about this alien commander role. I really liked the play styles between marine and aliens being totally different, it was one of the many things that made NS so unique.

I liked the fact that relationships were formed and games were won or lost based on the cohesiveness of your team. Leaders were born on a trial-by-fire basis. Everyone was united by the common goal to win, and losing was a bitter, bitter taste that no one wanted, but made winning so much sweeter.

I liked that there was a complete lack of game endorsed leader on an alien team because anyone could start giving orders and be given the same consideration as anyone else - your words were based on their own merit and your relationship with the person listening. The game didn't interfere with that.

I feel like this alien commander role is going to ruin that and at the same time make aliens more like marines with teeth instead of LMGs. I mean realistically, I'm probably just nervous about something I loved so much getting messed with, but at the same time I feel like my concerns are warranted.

Am I the only one?

For the record, I'm not suggesting it get nixed from the game, nor am I saying that NS2 should be NS1 on Graphic Crack, I'm simply saying how I feel about it and wondering if anyone else feels the same.

--Locane
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Comments

  • EldonEldon Join Date: 2010-07-15 Member: 72414Members, Constellation
    edited July 2010
    It's a change, not all change is bad.

    I personally welcome our new bitey overlords.


    (Also, a queen role fits in with the whole hive/scent sight feel that aliens have always had).
  • Mr. EpicMr. Epic Join Date: 2003-08-01 Member: 18660Members, Constellation
    As long as the alien commander can bacon eggs everything will be right.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    I don't really like commanders at all, don't see much need for them given that I think the alien method of everyone being able to place strucures is much more stable.

    But given that I assume both sides can have multiple commanders who can drop in and out, it might somehow be an even stronger system which incorporates the cohesion of a proper command interface with the stability of a multiple-player role.
  • BenaiahBenaiah Join Date: 2003-11-11 Member: 22517Members
    Well I think its pretty hard to say anything at the moment as
    -the alpha is still a week away and there is little information about the current role of the alien commander.
    -the wiki is just about pure stubs
    -changes will come pretty fast until the game hits beta
  • ArrowheadArrowhead Join Date: 2005-03-04 Member: 43198Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1781588:date=Jul 21 2010, 10:15 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 21 2010, 10:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781588"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't really like commanders at all, don't see much need for them given that I think the alien method of everyone being able to place strucures is much more stable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Good commanders can either win or lose games in competitive matches. I think an alien commander will help aliens get the organization required in order to compete more effectively with highly organized marine teams.
  • garvanigarvani Join Date: 2009-09-02 Member: 68678Members
    I dont think its a bad thing at all, we can really only give opinions on it once we have experienced it. With the flexibility thats going to be given its only a matter of time before a "classic NS" mode comes along from the community anyway, which would remove the alien commander among all the other changes that some people don't seem to like.
  • torquetorque Join Date: 2003-08-20 Member: 20035Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1781592:date=Jul 21 2010, 07:32 PM:name=Arrowhead)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrowhead @ Jul 21 2010, 07:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781592"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Good commanders can either win or lose games in competitive matches. I think an alien commander will help aliens get the organization required in order to compete more effectively with highly organized marine teams.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'm still sketchy on the idea of an alien commander, for reasons stated by others. As far as organization, I think not having a 'commander' actually led to a different kind of organization within alien teams, much more like a 'hive mind' - communal decisions and whatnot (such as which chamber to drop first), and I'd argue that it can be as effective as a single 'leader' guiding the team.

    If it's actually a competitive match, then the alien team should be highly organized regardless of whether there is a game-specified 'leader' role or not.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    edited July 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1781592:date=Jul 22 2010, 03:32 AM:name=Arrowhead)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrowhead @ Jul 22 2010, 03:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781592"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Good commanders can either win or lose games in competitive matches.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Which is why I don't like them. They make the game very unstable.
  • CoragemCoragem Join Date: 2005-03-06 Member: 44049Members
    I´ve aways liked the no commander aproach in Aliens team, but, as some said. i´ll give it a try before casting out an opinion about it
  • KarrdeKarrde Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16264Members
    I agree with an ability to Bacon the Eggs - maybe with MCs?
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members
    What abilities does the alien commander have?
  • aeroripperaeroripper Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    edited July 2010
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Good commanders can either win or lose games in competitive matches. I think an alien commander will help aliens get the organization required in order to compete more effectively with highly organized marine teams.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Bing. I see the alien comm as a boost for public games. More often than not there is a lack of communication and real strategy among random alien players. The guy who saves up his res for onos, then promptly dies in 10 seconds will hopefully be alleviated by the comm giving direction to the team. If the 'commander' role is formalized for aliens, more people will probably listen to someone telling them what to do with their res.
  • LucidLucid Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10534Members, Constellation
    I'm willing to give it a try. The only thing I'm worried about is the disparity it might cause in 6v6. With an alien commander and a gorge that leaves only 4 combat units. Is there any information on how an alien enters comm mode? I'm guessing he jumps in and out of the hive like a marine comm does with the chair.
  • cmc5788cmc5788 Join Date: 2009-10-06 Member: 68959Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1781616:date=Jul 21 2010, 11:18 PM:name=Lucid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lucid @ Jul 21 2010, 11:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm willing to give it a try. The only thing I'm worried about is the disparity it might cause in 6v6. With an alien commander and a gorge that leaves only 4 combat units. Is there any information on how an alien enters comm mode? I'm guessing he jumps in and out of the hive like a marine comm does with the chair.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Technically gorges in NS2 are aimed at being combat support units more than dedicated builders, so it won't cause much of an imbalance as long as their role as combat support is balanced to be just as situationally effective as a specifically offensive unit.
  • LucidLucid Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10534Members, Constellation
    edited July 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1781624:date=Jul 21 2010, 10:33 PM:name=cmc5788)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cmc5788 @ Jul 21 2010, 10:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781624"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Technically gorges in NS2 are aimed at being combat support units more than dedicated builders, so it won't cause much of an imbalance as long as their role as combat support is balanced to be just as situationally effective as a specifically offensive unit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Interesting, but there's still less units to... support. Lerks, atleast in NS1, could be considered a support unit. So I just hope there's enough upfront action to justify all this support.
  • cmc5788cmc5788 Join Date: 2009-10-06 Member: 68959Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1781628:date=Jul 21 2010, 11:41 PM:name=Lucid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lucid @ Jul 21 2010, 11:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781628"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Interesting, but there's still less units to... support. Lerks, atleast in NS1, could be considered a support unit. So I just hope there's enough upfront action to justify all this support.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    If a Gorge saves one unit that would have otherwise died, that accounts for his lack of firepower. Balances out overall assuming one alien commander and one marine commander.
  • Cheezy104Cheezy104 Join Date: 2009-06-11 Member: 67792Members
    Only time will tell if Alien commanders is going to be good, but I'm sure it'll be great.

    The thought of multiple commanders though, worries me.
  • SirotSirot Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58851Members
    Main reason for the introduction of the Commander, from what I understand, is to unify the resource model for both races. In NS2, marines gain their own resource pool while the aliens get a commander with its own resource pool. This makes balancing much, much easier.

    For example, in larger games in NS1, the marine resource model (commander only) would result in the marines being stronger while in smaller games the aliens were much stronger (individual pools for players).
  • EnragedPlatypusEnragedPlatypus Join Date: 2009-05-30 Member: 67567Members
    edited July 2010
    As long as the alien commander looks like this

    <img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_56uq77msz_g/SfbYVk2cPvI/AAAAAAAAATQ/i9iEXR9yWRo/s400/mars2-16-09.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    I'll be happy.
  • yourbonesakinyourbonesakin Join Date: 2005-08-06 Member: 57682Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1781581:date=Jul 21 2010, 10:10 PM:name=Locane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Locane @ Jul 21 2010, 10:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781581"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...I mean realistically, I'm probably just nervous about something I loved so much getting messed with...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That's all it is.

    In any case, the alien commander is here to stay.
  • TagertsweTagertswe Join Date: 2010-03-04 Member: 70825Members
    I'm curious how the Alien Commander voice will sound :D
  • yourbonesakinyourbonesakin Join Date: 2005-08-06 Member: 57682Members
    Probably no modifications, unfortunately for you.
  • RulgrokRulgrok Join Date: 2007-04-04 Member: 60559Members
    Honestly I am interest to see how the "com chair" aspect of being alien commander works and more over since it should be something any starting playing can do I imagine would you be like a skulk climbing into the "Hive's vagina" is the best way I could imagine in. Biologically it would make sense(*wink wink* devs). A moist pocket growing off the hive maybe and be absorbed on the cellular level
  • TSSTSS Join Date: 2010-05-11 Member: 71716Members
    I'm betting they can gestate into the queen if nobody else has. Alien sex change ftw :p The exit button would be "gestate to skulk".

    I'm too a bit nervous about how the alien commander will play out, but beeing a frontline gorge myself i can see it working. The start of the game used to have 3-4 gorges untill a few got killed or all "alien side" res towers where dropped, after which there where usually just 2 gorges running around. One hunting res towers and saving for the hive and one dropping chambers near the front line (<- me). I've saved quite the onos and fades by dropping a few defence chambers, adrenaline upgrade and healthspraying like crazy just around the corner from the marine base we where attacking.

    In NS2 it looks like the gorge saving up for the hive has been lifted up to commander perspective while the battlegorge still runs amok. Sounds good to me to be honest because saving up for a hive was a tedious job i've also done too often :p
  • Renegade.Renegade. Join Date: 2003-01-15 Member: 12313Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1781640:date=Jul 22 2010, 12:12 AM:name=Sirot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sirot @ Jul 22 2010, 12:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781640"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Main reason for the introduction of the Commander, from what I understand, is to unify the resource model for both races. In NS2, marines gain their own resource pool while the aliens get a commander with its own resource pool. This makes balancing much, much easier.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    "Easier", by the same token is OP's and everyone's fear here, along with its synonyms. The unique asymmetry of NS' RTS style was a hallmark to its gameplay, few others attempted or accomplished it ever. The experience between alien teamwork and marine teamwork was remarkably different and compelling it didn't just feel like a "red vs blue". With parallel commanding ad res models we see this feature eroded into symmetry. Granted, scaling of the res model was an issue that needed tweaking even in 3.0, but given time it could have been realized.

    OP know that you are not the only one that feels this way (but those who do are increasingly being drowned out by fanboi-ism), and it's time to call a spade a spade: symmetrical res models and command structure is a cop-out, a compromise, from the challenge of balancing an asymmetric one. I'll see points that it may have been feasible or even necessary to stay on budget and release date (have we even one yet?), but I'm hard-pressed to entertain any arguments that claim it as desirable over an asymmetric model.
  • BloodhouseBloodhouse Join Date: 2010-07-14 Member: 72369Members
    Looking forward to it.
    The "CC" will probably be some heavily armoured egg on or near hive 1 like some dude already said.
    The only thing is the entering/exiting comm mode, like some marine comms do when theres a skulk snapping at the cc sometimes. Will "queens" be able to do the same so easily?
  • 1mannARMEE1mannARMEE Join Date: 2008-09-23 Member: 65064Members
    Just like Paladins for the Horde ? :P



    Let's see how it'll work out maybe even Renegade might like it in the end, who knows.
  • TrCTrC Join Date: 2008-11-30 Member: 65612Members
    I'm no fan of alien commander, it is not something that was really needed, anyone saying theres was no coordination on alien side is talking plain poop, every decent player runs while looking map most of the game in order to grasp the situation, scout proper places and count the marines both present and missing. In NS1 alien commander was more like the one to call the shots, for example defend, sacrifice or resbite / baserush. Blindly believing that change is good is stupid, if you cant argument for or against it why bother saying it out loud.
  • DelphicDelphic Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58262Members
    I had a belf pally... *lament*

    Anyway, yeah I think the alien commander has been introduced for balancing reasons only. Whilst I'd have liked the side to remain complete asymmetrical I understand that the game has to be reasonably balanced by v1 or else bad things will happen.
  • NurEinMenschNurEinMensch Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation
    Don't fear that the Alien Commander will totally take over control of the Alien team. I don't think much will change for your average skulk. The Alien Commander will take over <i>some</i> of the gorge's duties and he will need to do stuff that didn't even exist in NS1. So I rather see him as an addition to Alien game play instead of a total conversion.
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