Do you care about realism?

TweadleTweadle Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39686Members, NS2 Map Tester
Yes/No?

I could care less about nanites and all that malarky. Just interested to know how important realism is for you when you're blasting away at <b>aliens</b> in the <b>future</b>.
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Comments

  • MuYeahMuYeah Join Date: 2006-12-26 Member: 59261Members
    if im not aiming down sights to shoot my aliens in a 270 degree fov ATI eyefinity screen i just dont feel like im really there. also there must be fans blowing in my face, fed feedback in real time as the onos space alien roars. in fact everyone i play with or against must use PS1 light-guns so i can tell if they really would have been able to aim that well in real life. You kharaa-centric players just dont understand that marines need this buff.
  • RobBRobB TUBES OF THE INTERWEB Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Actually, NS is very realistic.

    <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws" target="_blank">Clarke's Law</a> (check out the third one) - when humankind finaly has nanite technology, a new era will dawn. for the better? depends on who you vote today.
  • Voyager IVoyager I Join Date: 2009-11-02 Member: 69222Members
    I want verisimilitude, but even that takes a distant second to gameplay.
  • RazorRazor Join Date: 2010-02-23 Member: 70695Members
    What do you mean by realistic? I think everything needs to feel real within the game's world.
  • FocusedWolfFocusedWolf Join Date: 2005-01-09 Member: 34258Members
    I want realism to the max including realistically themed maps, lethal marine weaponry (full on gritty), and gore. Don't forget gushing blood when i blow a onos or fades head off with a minigun and please let there be a way to blow a fades legs off with a shotgun.

    p.s. i want gorges to scream when i set them on fire with flamethrower :)
  • xmainexmaine Join Date: 2009-08-10 Member: 68409Members
    You wanna play realistic? Go play rainbow 6 or something. Don't bring it into NS where a good balance of arcade and realism made the game what it is.

    I like a good balance between arcade and realism. Physics is a must but human conditions like broken leg, bleeding, missing limb, aliens on fire, recoil, etc, should all be left out.

    Focusedwolf, if it was real to the max, there would be no respawn points and you wouldn't magically control another marine.
  • celewigncelewign Join Date: 2010-02-06 Member: 70458Members
    Focusedwolf is trolling as hard as ever.


    I play a lot of Quake so realism isn't that important to me... I want a balanced game with lots of depth.
  • FocusedWolfFocusedWolf Join Date: 2005-01-09 Member: 34258Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1755011:date=Feb 24 2010, 10:28 PM:name=xmaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xmaine @ Feb 24 2010, 10:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755011"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Focusedwolf, if it was real to the max, there would be no respawn points and you wouldn't magically control another marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    We're still assuming NS universe technology obviously. But in that range of technology, i'm suggesting we keep it gritty, which is the exact opposite of arcade.
  • xmainexmaine Join Date: 2009-08-10 Member: 68409Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1755018:date=Feb 25 2010, 05:33 AM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Feb 25 2010, 05:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755018"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We're still assuming NS universe technology obviously. But in that range of technology, i'm suggesting we keep it gritty, which is the exact opposite of arcade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Wow... this post... all i have to say is wow. I can't believe how unintelligent you are.

    Grit is a texture
  • Renegade.Renegade. Join Date: 2003-01-15 Member: 12313Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1755020:date=Feb 24 2010, 11:45 PM:name=xmaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xmaine @ Feb 24 2010, 11:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755020"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Grit is a texture<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually it is also a theme, and just so happens to be one which NS2 utilizes.

    As for realism in NS2, I think MuYeah's post just about sums it up.
  • Battle-BugBattle-Bug Join Date: 2010-02-11 Member: 70523Members
    edited February 2010
    I feel that some realism is important to remind us that the game isn't 100% fake. I don't push for hardcore realism, only a reminder or two.

    I do feel that the issue of "nanites" is a bit abused. Every time a marine technology is suggested with no scientific or logical background, nanites are to blame. It just seems that "nanites" is the new word for "magic." The term is relied on too heavily.


    <!--quoteo(post=1755013:date=Feb 24 2010, 09:47 PM:name=celewign)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (celewign @ Feb 24 2010, 09:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755013"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Focusedwolf is trolling as hard as ever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Guys, by saying things like this, you're worse than you say he is. If you don't like him, put him on your ignore list, have a private conversation with him in the form of pm's, or be the bigger man. (btw, I didn't see him say anything negative or try to provoke any kind of emotional reaction. He seems to be posting honestly and enthusiastically.) Edit: Don't reply to this paragraph.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1755027:date=Feb 24 2010, 11:37 PM:name=Battle-Bug)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Battle-Bug @ Feb 24 2010, 11:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755027"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I feel that some realism is important to remind us that the game isn't 100% fake. I don't push for hardcore realism, only a reminder or two.

    I do feel that the issue of "nanites" is a bit abused. Every time a marine technology is suggested with no scientific or logical background, nanites are to blame. It just seems that "nanites" is the new word for "magic." The term is relied on too heavily.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I would tend to agree. We still have humans walking around, bullets fly in mostly straight lines, and if you get hit enough you die.

    At the same time, I feel that the average gamer is willing to suspend quite a bit of reality for the sake of the game. For example, Halo is a pretty big hit, but I don't see any plasma guns or beam swords hanging around. Similarly, even Call of Duty MW takes a few liberties, especially in multiplayer. I mean, who cares about flags? And a predator missile every 5 seconds? Or that basic RPGs can lock onto vehicles?


    So, there has to be the basic rules of realism, i.e. physics and usually (unless it's intentional stylistic choices) visually accurate. However, the way other elements interact can be much more pliable depending on the goal. Some games simply want to be true sims, others don't really care. Do you want Microsoft Flight Simulator? Or MechWarrior?


    A similar analogy is Anime. At a fundamental level there are certain things that have to be "realistic". At the same time, people are perfectly willing to let giant mechas run around or for people to fly if it's convenient. That being said, there are also several anime that try to be extremely accurate to how things would work in the real world, such as Planetes which even tried to have accurate Newtonian physics for their space scenes.


    Personally, for NS2 I tend to lean towards the "unrealistic" side.
  • Renegade.Renegade. Join Date: 2003-01-15 Member: 12313Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1755027:date=Feb 25 2010, 12:37 AM:name=Battle-Bug)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Battle-Bug @ Feb 25 2010, 12:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755027"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do feel that the issue of "nanites" is a bit abused. Every time a marine technology is suggested with no scientific or logical background, nanites are to blame. It just seems that "nanites" is the new word for "magic." The term is relied on too heavily.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    uhhh, I don't think you quite get the joke. 'Nanites' isn't a real explanation, it's a short form of saying "Because the NS2 universe is set in a sci-fi future in which many forms of new technology, nanite or other, may be realized I can justify at length any arbitrary idea that you may or may not find believable solely based on fictitious technologies which I can foreseeably define such that they posses credibility in the NS2 universe"

    Instead of writing volumes of Arthur C Clarke-sian sci-fi fiction on a forum simply to justify some gameplay element on the grounds of credibility (which it shouldn't ever be for this exact reason), people will tend to abbreviate it to simply "nanites".
  • BadMouthBadMouth It ceases to be exclusive when you can have a custom member titl Join Date: 2004-05-21 Member: 28815Members
    As long as realism doesn't affect gameplay, I'm ok with it. If NS2 can somehow pull off being the most realistic shooter in the world, like somehow making your character tired and still fun to control at the same time, weapon jams suddenly become interesting, fully destructable environments somehow don't affect map strategy, then I'm all for it. If the game still remains fun and engaging, why not?

    But sadly, that is almost impossible to do. So some realistic elements should take a backseat.
  • PSAPSA Join Date: 2009-10-21 Member: 69107Members
    Realism in MY Natural Selection? v55 :idontthinksosistah:

    As "real" as NS1 was would be dandy.
  • Voyager IVoyager I Join Date: 2009-11-02 Member: 69222Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1755011:date=Feb 25 2010, 03:28 AM:name=xmaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xmaine @ Feb 25 2010, 03:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755011"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You wanna play realistic? Go play rainbow 6 or something. Don't bring it into NS where a good balance of arcade and realism made the game what it is.

    I like a good balance between arcade and realism. Physics is a must but human conditions like broken leg, bleeding, missing limb, aliens on fire, recoil, etc, should all be left out.

    Focusedwolf, if it was real to the max, there would be no respawn points and you wouldn't magically control another marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    If he wants max realism, he could have someone standing next to him with a starved panther ready to sic it on him as soon as he got skulked.

    I'm kinda liking the sound of that, although I would hope it was an optional setting.
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1754997:date=Feb 25 2010, 03:28 AM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Feb 25 2010, 03:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754997"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if im not aiming down sights to shoot my aliens in a 270 degree fov ATI eyefinity screen i just dont feel like im really there. also there must be fans blowing in my face, fed feedback in real time as the onos space alien roars. in fact everyone i play with or against must use PS1 light-guns so i can tell if they really would have been able to aim that well in real life. You kharaa-centric players just dont understand that marines need this buff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This.

    And of course NS2 has to to be shipped with a cyber sniff 2000, because I want to smell the onos roar and lerk spores.
  • Draco_2kDraco_2k Evil Genius Join Date: 2009-12-09 Member: 69546Members
    edited February 2010
    Realism is an added bonus.

    Per se, Half-Life universe is incredibly anal about making sense of things (both story-wise and visually) despite being a game about a sngle Ph.D. beating down a whole alien army. Would it still be fun without it though? Heck yeah.

    Both it and NS are centered around gameplay first. What you need in this case is a writer who will be able to design the story and visuals from the gameplay-up, and that certainly is possible. From the very few details know about the game, UW have been doing a decent job of it so far, too.
  • darktimesdarktimes Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63247Members
    Do you care about realism?

    nope.
  • zimzumzimzum Join Date: 2004-09-02 Member: 31200Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1755051:date=Feb 25 2010, 07:20 AM:name=darktimes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (darktimes @ Feb 25 2010, 07:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755051"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do you care about realism?

    nope.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    +1
    Couldn't have said it better myself.
  • PrivatePrivate Join Date: 2007-06-10 Member: 61204Members, Constellation
    I think NS1 struck a very good balance between gameplay and realism.

    If I wanted realism for the sake of realism, I would not play a sci-fi game.
  • Raza.Raza. Join Date: 2004-01-24 Member: 25663Members, Constellation
    Well, aliens and space stations are totally realistic.
    It's the little details that aren't.

    Like, noone would ever want to have gunfights and explosions inside vulnerable space stations.
    And some alien abilities are completely against the laws of physics.

    But these things make NS what it is.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    Games based on realism = operation flashpoint and operation flashpoint = badly designed heap of crap.

    Reality isn't very well put together, games have designers because you can't just copy from reality and expect it to work.
  • Battle-BugBattle-Bug Join Date: 2010-02-11 Member: 70523Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1755065:date=Feb 25 2010, 08:54 AM:name=Razagal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Razagal @ Feb 25 2010, 08:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755065"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Like, noone would ever want to have gunfights and explosions inside vulnerable space stations.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The bullets are frangibles :)

    (frangibles are bullets that break apart on impact)
  • MuYeahMuYeah Join Date: 2006-12-26 Member: 59261Members
    Of course there is a difference between consistency with your created universe and "realism" and believability has to be a part of that. However, a well made multiplayer game will build its back-story around gameplay considerations rather than the other way around.
  • zimzumzimzum Join Date: 2004-09-02 Member: 31200Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1755069:date=Feb 25 2010, 10:22 AM:name=Battle-Bug)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Battle-Bug @ Feb 25 2010, 10:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755069"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The bullets are frangibles :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    are you implying that bullets that break apart on impact do no damage to the object being struck?
  • Battle-BugBattle-Bug Join Date: 2010-02-11 Member: 70523Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1755080:date=Feb 25 2010, 10:46 AM:name=zimzum)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zimzum @ Feb 25 2010, 10:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755080"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->are you implying that bullets that break apart on impact do no damage to the object being struck?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Concerns with over penetration / ricochet hazards aboard aircraft, ships and (e. g.) nuclear power plants that might release hazardous materials have led to efforts to provide small caliber ammunition with reduced ricochet, limited penetration (RRLP) for use by SOF to reduce risk to friendly forces and innocent persons. There are three general levels of frangible: Training [may be used for training only]; reduced ricochet, limited penetration[RRLP, designed for purposes stated]; and general purpose frangible [though no military requirement has been established for a general purpose round for use by conventional forces]. Specific ammunition must undergo wound ballistics testing/ legal review once developed. It can be used for: Close Quarter Battle (CQB); Military operation in Urban Terrain (MOUT); Visit Board Search and Seizure; and Counter-Narcotics (CN) Operation.

    Frangible bullets will break up into small, less harmful, pieces upon contact with anything <b>harder than they are (aliens are gooey)</b>. This maximizes the round's transfer of energy to the object and minimizes the chances that pieces of the bullet will exit the object at dangerous velocities. Each of the small fragments quickly loses any energy and therefore pose very little danger to any secondary targets. This means that full-power frangible bullets can be shot at target all the way up to muzzle contact without any worries that the bullet or case will ricochet and potentially hurt either the shooter or others.

    <a href="http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/frangible.htm" target="_blank">http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/sys...s/frangible.htm</a>
  • tankefugltankefugl One Script To Rule Them All... Trondheim, Norway Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    To answer on the topic's question: No, I usually never care about realism and can't really recall when I last did so even when playing "realistic" games.
  • Voyager IVoyager I Join Date: 2009-11-02 Member: 69222Members
    Speaking of verisimilitude, exactly whose idea was it to start using Jetpacks <i>indoors</i>.

    I wouldn't dream of removing them, but that's basically it for your realism right there.
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1755104:date=Feb 25 2010, 06:15 PM:name=Voyager I)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voyager I @ Feb 25 2010, 06:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755104"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Speaking of verisimilitude, exactly whose idea was it to start using Jetpacks <i>indoors</i>.

    I wouldn't dream of removing them, but that's basically it for your realism right there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Heh, realistic body collisions combined with jetpack flight model would be pretty catastrophic.
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