NS2 on Linux

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Comments

  • OBhaveOBhave Join Date: 2003-03-13 Member: 14462Members, Constellation
    That's precisely what I mean ... getting back the money they spent on the Linux port.

    And yes naturally they should then also charge for re-buying the game on Mac...

    The fans should show their appreciation if UW decides to make what most would call a completely unnecessary port (because >90% of the fans just suck it up and dual boot anyway).
  • snooggumssnooggums Join Date: 2009-09-18 Member: 68821Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1737332:date=Nov 12 2009, 10:30 AM:name=OBhave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OBhave @ Nov 12 2009, 10:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737332"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's precisely what I mean ... getting back the money they spent on the Linux port.

    And yes naturally they should then also charge for re-buying the game on Mac...

    The fans should show their appreciation if UW decides to make what most would call a completely unnecessary port (because >90% of the fans just suck it up and dual boot anyway).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You are saying Id was wrong to offer the Linux version to Retail Windows purchasers and should have charged for it instead?

    I don't think charging for a second platform is <i>unreasonable</i> I just don't think it should be expected either. Of course the people who didn't buy the Windows version because they were holding out for the Linux version would be purchasing a game at full price anyway.
  • SvartalfSvartalf Join Date: 2009-11-10 Member: 69340Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1737187:date=Nov 11 2009, 12:35 PM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (puzl @ Nov 11 2009, 12:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737187"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->a) I don't want a Linux version if it delays the initial release<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    No kidding. I wouldn't want that either- it does the studio no good and burns more money.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->b) I don't want a Linux version if it requires an extra developer to be hired to support it ( soaking up limited cash )<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Depends on the nature of "hired". A hired gun under contract might work wonders until the game's totally flying.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->d) Running it under wine would be fine by me<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It wouldn't for me. If it can be had native, I'd consider it more acceptable. I really don't buy much of any
    Windows targeted products these days. Tax software would be the exception of this since there's not any
    good native stuff that can juggle a day job, two business ventures, and a horse farm that I do.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->e) I dual boot for gaming anyway, and so do the rest of you. So just add NS2 to your list of reasons to reboot to windows<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Speak for only yourself. *I* do not dual boot save to do checks for proper function of a game I'm porting (which means
    not terribly often...I've only done it about once within the last 4 or so years), and there's others that're that way. ;-)
    I only do WINE for titles that won't get ports (there's a couple, but they're largely older games and WoW...)- but I don't
    buy Windows titles save for evaluation for porting proposals. Seriously.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've bought many games on Linux - Quake 3 and mindrover are two that spring to mind, but I just want my NS2 more
    than I want my gaming to be on Linux.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I won't compromise. But, in the same vein, I won't ask anyone to be put out on NS2 just for MY sake. :-D

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Edit: I should add that there is a hardcore linux gaming scene that get very excited about any game being supported as a native linux application. So, if a native NS2 was available, we would surely get flooded with attention from the Linux gaming scene.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Indeed. So far, it's paid me, as a independent porting consultant, decently with the most recent title.
  • SvartalfSvartalf Join Date: 2009-11-10 Member: 69340Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1737334:date=Nov 12 2009, 04:34 PM:name=snooggums)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snooggums @ Nov 12 2009, 04:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737334"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You are saying Id was wrong to offer the Linux version to Retail Windows purchasers and should have charged for it instead?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    No, I think he's saying they're perfectly within their rights to charge for separate SKUs. The only reason they're not is because
    they're being "nice" about it. Normally, there's costs involved with porting a game from one platform to another. In the case
    of someone other than the original studio/publisher doing it, there's rights access that needs to be paid for (AAA titles run from
    5 to 6 figures paid, up-front, in most cases- before you can even START talking about the royalties owed for the sales...), there's
    the work to port that has to be paid for, there's the duplicators to be paid if there's meatspace disks and manuals, then there's
    the per unit royalties (which also typically have to be paid as a lump sum for when you cut a production run...). It all adds up
    to being roughly the same cost for a title as it was brand new on Windows, when it ends up being bargain bin priced on Windows.

    What many don't get is that you're getting it at bargain bin prices to flush out the Windows content and they're just trying to
    minimize losses and recoup part of the owed royalties at that point. You're buying a "brand new" Linux title in that context.


    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think charging for a second platform is <i>unreasonable</i> I just don't think it should be expected either. Of course the
    people who didn't buy the Windows version because they were holding out for the Linux version would be purchasing a game
    at full price anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yep. I concur on both scores. It's <i><b>nicer</b></i> if you end up with the studio/publisher doing the work like with iD or
    with an indie contractor doing it like was done with Elecorn's Caster3D. Ends up being the same price and out at the
    same time or close to it as the Windows and MacOS titles.
  • SvartalfSvartalf Join Date: 2009-11-10 Member: 69340Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1737229:date=Nov 11 2009, 07:16 PM:name=borsuk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (borsuk @ Nov 11 2009, 07:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737229"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let's not forget wine is getting advanced enough you can run windows viruses with it.
    <a href="http://blog.opensourcenerd.com/i-can-haz-virus" target="_blank">http://blog.opensourcenerd.com/i-can-haz-virus</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I would rather forget... I got rid of virus problems in the large some 10 years ago and now it's catching up
    with me because people would rather dual boot or run WINE to play their games... >:-)
  • SvartalfSvartalf Join Date: 2009-11-10 Member: 69340Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1737208:date=Nov 11 2009, 03:25 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Nov 11 2009, 03:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737208"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not opposed to games on Linux, I'm all for it. I just don't think for a small development company in a global recession it is financially viable right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Depends on how they go about doing it.

    Percentage of proceeds to the right person would be payment enough... :-D
  • SvartalfSvartalf Join Date: 2009-11-10 Member: 69340Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1737191:date=Nov 11 2009, 01:33 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Nov 11 2009, 01:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737191"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's been my entire point through out the thread as well, although people whipped out graphs to try and help their cause.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    (Waves hand in the air...) I largely don't do WINE. I don't dual boot. While I might be in the minority, I've come to the conclusion that anything else is actually counterproductive. :-D
  • JediblingJedibling Join Date: 2008-10-29 Member: 65321Members
    Really, i have nothing against linux, but if you want to play games get xp/vista. I don't really know about windows 7, but i'm sure that xp and vista will handle most games (as a OS)
  • wilbefastwilbefast Join Date: 2009-10-18 Member: 69079Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1737708:date=Nov 15 2009, 03:44 PM:name=Jedibling)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jedibling @ Nov 15 2009, 03:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737708"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Really, i have nothing against linux, but if you want to play games get xp/vista. I don't really know about windows 7, but i'm sure that xp and vista will handle most games (as an OS)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I think what my friend Borsuk is trying to say is that platform flamewars generally result from... people suggesting that a given platform is "incapable" of "handling" games. A PS3 can't play XBox360 games, but that's not to say it "can't handle" them. Please avoid the use of such words, you'll make a lot of people really angry with you and you won't understand why.

    Coincidently there are more games for Linux than I have time to play - I've been meaning to finish Penumbra for months :-S
  • BloodyIronBloodyIron Join Date: 2009-11-09 Member: 69321Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Software written with platform non-specific code (ala 90% of the nvidia drivers are platform non-specific) can have quick turn around for cross-platform updates and releases. Take a look at the Savage 2 engine. They release patches for all 3 platforms simultaneously.

    It sounds to me like UW is trying to do this for NS2, and I think this is the best way to offer cross-platform support. It makes me wary that they are looking into steamworks. I love STEAM, but it is seeming more like a platform-lock-in now adays. At least until STEAM goes multi-platform (please?).
  • wilbefastwilbefast Join Date: 2009-10-18 Member: 69079Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1737838:date=Nov 16 2009, 10:49 PM:name=BloodyIron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BloodyIron @ Nov 16 2009, 10:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737838"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Software written with platform non-specific code (ala 90% of the nvidia drivers are platform non-specific) can have quick turn around for cross-platform updates and releases. Take a look at the Savage 2 engine. They release patches for all 3 platforms simultaneously.

    It sounds to me like UW is trying to do this for NS2, and I think this is the best way to offer cross-platform support. It makes me wary that they are looking into steamworks. I love STEAM, but it is seeming more like a platform-lock-in now adays. At least until STEAM goes multi-platform (please?).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <a href="http://www.valvesoftware.com/job-SenSoftEngineer.html" target="_blank">http://www.valvesoftware.com/job-SenSoftEngineer.html</a>

    This is sort of old news, but Valve are/were/will be looking for software engineers to "Port Windows-based games to the Linux platform." Bit of a no-show though considering it dates from 2007-2008 :-(

    Still, if Valve started porting their games there'd be pretty much no reason to use windows ever again :-P
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    So after downloading the alpha/editor and seeing that it does not work in wine, i really want to stress that there are alot of people that want NS2 on linux. i don't even have a windows machine around... (will i ever see my black armor?)
  • jamesbchjamesbch Join Date: 2004-04-20 Member: 28035Members, Constellation
    I tried the tools too with wine. Installation and starting is ok but it'll crash after some seconds and nothing appear in the perspective view. Moreover the editor uses Direct3D (DirectX) so it isn't as multiplatform-independant as I was thinking... I know it's impossible to deliver the version for all OS but is it planned ? I don't think it's much work to make it work through wine or with opengl.
  • zimzumzimzum Join Date: 2004-09-02 Member: 31200Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    download and run winetricks ( wget <a href="http://www.kegel.com/wine/winetricks" target="_blank">http://www.kegel.com/wine/winetricks</a> ) this can help you install get around some of the trickier parts of required windows apps. note, I am at work and have not tried to install the editor yet.
    also, the latest "unstable" version (1.1.33) is really pretty stable and more current than the current repo version (1.0.1)
  • hooflung64hooflung64 Join Date: 2009-11-24 Member: 69508Members
    I'd buy a Linux only title. I am about to purchase the game to get to the tools. Such great work on this title kudos to the developers. Moreover, I'll be happily playing this on windows 7 x64 until there is a linux port.
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    i also tried to run it in virtualbox. no luck either :-(
  • CymbalsCymbals Join Date: 2008-08-16 Member: 64825Members
    Installed fine on Ubuntu 9.10 with wine 1.2. It runs too but there are graphical problems, shame it doesn't use OpenGl. It is good to see some progress nonetheless.

    <a href="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_IS5xwA11ug8/Swxqm8SqjkI/AAAAAAAAAGQ/TquWY0oQ7Ow/Screenshot.jpg" target="_blank">http://lh6.ggpht.com/_IS5xwA11ug8/Swxqm8Sq.../Screenshot.jpg</a>
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    interesting. how did you manage this?

    i get an error complaining about a missing msvcr80.dll and a missing msvcp80.dll

    I downloaded both manualy, but now there is another error about those dlls when starting the editor (as you said, installing was easy)
  • DooGieDooGie Join Date: 2005-01-10 Member: 34531Members, Constellation
    edited November 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1683111:date=Jul 11 2008, 01:39 PM:name=ChromeAngel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChromeAngel @ Jul 11 2008, 01:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1683111"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now (or ideally before any graphics was coded) would be the ideal time to plan for the capacity to be cross platform. If it turns out Max has been coding this all in C# using DirectX the odds of it ever seeing a non-windows platform are tiny to non-existent. If however he's been using a cross platform friendly set of tools like ANSI C++ and openGL we at least have a ray of hope for a Linux NS2.

    @spellman I hear what you're saying about Linux having lots of distros, but that's really no different than supporting all the NT based versions of Windows (was it 18 different versions of Vista I read the other day?). After all you don't expect your "games for windows" to run on windows mobile or media centre do you?.

    Hell, if their was a Linux version it could come on a Live CD with a cut down distro that UWE had tuned to suit their game.

    @Prefix & locallyunscene
    I heard Blizzard have an OS X version of WoW, so their eyes are obviously open to non-windows based gaming. I get the impression that it's not a massive jump from running on BSD (which OS X is based on) to running on GNU/Linux.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Mac OS X is based on Unix, like Linux actually.


    edit. No, you're right. Mac is based on BSD which is also based on Unix ;D.
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    edited November 2009
    So in my effort to get this to run with wine, here is my current howto (which does not work):

    install vcrun2005 with winetricks:
    winetricks vcrun2005
    install Sparkeditor
    run it
    wine Editor.exe


    It does start to the point where it asks my key, when i enter it, it quickly shows the editor, then crashes. Thats better than before :-)

    For reference, here is my error:
    fixme:win:EnumDisplayDevicesW ((null),0,0x32f494,0x00000000), stub!
    fixme:d3d:WineD3D_ChoosePixelFormat Add OpenGL context recreation support to SetDepthStencilSurface
    err:d3d:resource_init Out of adapter memory
    fixme:d3d9:Direct3DShaderValidatorCreate9 stub
    fixme:gdi:ExtCreatePen Hatches not implemented
    fixme:d3d:WineD3D_ChoosePixelFormat Add OpenGL context recreation support to SetDepthStencilSurface
    fixme:d3d:WineD3D_ChoosePixelFormat Add OpenGL context recreation support to SetDepthStencilSurface
    err:seh:raise_exception Unhandled exception code c0000005 flags 0 addr 0x7ef384

    I think i might be able to solve at least the "Out of adapter memory" error.

    edit:
    and i figured it out :-)
    So, i had to set the registry value ... to the amount of video ram i have, in my case 512.
    After that i got this:
    <a href="http://www.fryx.ch/Asraniel/sparkwine.png" target="_blank">http://www.fryx.ch/Asraniel/sparkwine.png</a>

    the updater had a error when installing the new version. there are alot of grafical errors, but it "works".

    I really hope a native version will be released....

    edit2:
    even the lightning works quite well. but there are too many little bugs (and alot of crashes) that i could create a real map with this..
  • ThrillseekerThrillseeker Join Date: 2007-04-10 Member: 60593Members
    LINUX OR NOTHING! ;)
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    anybody else got it to work? could you get the updater to work? for me ti downloads to 99% and then tells me that the dowload failed.. is there a manual way to install the patch?
  • jamesbchjamesbch Join Date: 2004-04-20 Member: 28035Members, Constellation
    edited November 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1741203:date=Nov 28 2009, 01:11 PM:name=Asraniel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Asraniel @ Nov 28 2009, 01:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741203"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->edit:
    and i figured it out :-)
    So, i had to set the registry value ... to the amount of video ram i have, in my case 512.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Where did you change this ? I'm interested ! Which version of Wine do you use ?

    About the updater it seems not working yet, so you need to update it in VirtualBox for example and use this version.
  • zimzumzimzum Join Date: 2004-09-02 Member: 31200Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <a href="http://img69.imageshack.us/i/editoropensusev11.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3455/editoropensusev11.th.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

    I used winetricks to install vcrun2005 and was able to run the Editor, but the update fails. also, I did not have to specify my cards memory.

    I'm using opensuse v11.1/gnome with an nvidia card and the proprietary driver.
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1741296:date=Nov 28 2009, 09:32 PM:name=jamesbch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jamesbch @ Nov 28 2009, 09:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741296"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Where did you change this ? I'm interested ! Which version of Wine do you use ?

    About the updater it seems not working yet, so you need to update it in VirtualBox for example and use this version.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ah sorry, i forgot to replace the ... after finishing my post.
    you can find it here:
    <a href="http://wiki.winehq.org/UsefulRegistryKeys" target="_blank">http://wiki.winehq.org/UsefulRegistryKeys</a>
    it's the videomemory size one.

    And for the updating in virtualbox.. sadly this does not work, because in virtualbox it crashes instantly for me
  • jamesbchjamesbch Join Date: 2004-04-20 Member: 28035Members, Constellation
    edited November 2009
    What about this ?

    <!--quoteo(post=1741296:date=Nov 28 2009, 09:32 PM:name=jamesbch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jamesbch @ Nov 28 2009, 09:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741296"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Which version of Wine do you use ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    because it's very important. I've tested with 1.1.9 but it crashed at startup. (but I've installed vcrun2005 with winetricks.)
    I'll try with a newer version and hope it'll work.

    Edit: Tried with 1.1.25 (crash submitter appear) and 1.1.33 (same) won't start.
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    i'm using wine 1.1.33
  • jamesbchjamesbch Join Date: 2004-04-20 Member: 28035Members, Constellation
    edited November 2009
    I've got results with wine 1.1.33 (stable release) :

    <a href="http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/capture-sparkeditor.php" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/capture-sparkeditor.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

    It's quite crashy, but there is Hope !

    Edit: It's VERY crashy. It'll crash 2/3 times at startup (crash submiter), the lit view isn't rendering. so it's very unstable.
    I'll try with the updated version (1.0 build 126) (updated with windows).

    Edit2: It's the same:
    - Crash when clicking on props, entity, select, paint button (when something has been created, so you need to save, restart and then continue).
    - Some textures won't render right.
    - Buttons dispears when closing something (windows, panels) over it
    - Keyboard doesn't seem to work (randomly)
    - 4 View is buggy.

    Edit2:
    Quite nice
    <a href="http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/capture-map1level-sparkeditor.php" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/capture-map1level-sparkeditor.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
    <a href="http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/capture-map1level-sparkeditor-3.php" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/capture-map1level-sparkeditor-3.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
    <a href="http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/capture-map1level-sparkeditor-5.php" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/capture-map1level-sparkeditor-5.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
    But when you know you need to restart the Editor for each select, it's not usable yet.
  • borsukborsuk Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67717Members
    I would really appreciate it if one of you guys could create a page for Spark Editor at Wine Application Database:

    <a href="http://appdb.winehq.org" target="_blank">http://appdb.winehq.org</a>

    Judging by what you say, it seems to be 'Bronze' rating. Submiting your results and methods would help organize effort to get this thing running. This is <b>the</b> place to exchange tips about running programs in wine. Sorry I can't help, I'm not buying the game until I'm sure I can run it. I don't have dual boot or money to spare.
  • MopMop Join Date: 2003-06-26 Member: 17707Members
    this is but a dream come true, if not for linux atleast make it work with crossover
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