Natural Selection 2 News Update - Detailed Onos "reveal"

124

Comments

  • [WHO]Mr.Black[WHO]Mr.Black Join Date: 2009-06-14 Member: 67841Members
    edited July 2009
    Ya know, I never really understood why people complained about being devoured by Onos. Never bothered me. I always thought it was a fun idea, and one of the few things I had the skill to successfully do in NS1. Devour raiding. My accuracy was never high enough to really use shotguns well, and I wasn't fast enough to be a successful Fade. I guess people just think it's too easy or something, elitest prigs. =P

    Other than that. The new onos sounds cool! I'm guessing they're going to have abilities limited to 1 ability per hive? So only the basic ability will be available at the start?
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu Anememone Join Date: 2002-03-23 Member: 345Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1716363:date=Jul 8 2009, 10:18 AM:name=[WHO]Mr.Black)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ([WHO]Mr.Black @ Jul 8 2009, 10:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716363"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    Ya know, I never really understood why people complained about being devoured by Onos. Never bothered me. I always thought it was a fun idea, and one of the few things I had the skill to successfully do in NS1. Devour raiding. My accuracy was never high enough to really use shotguns well, and I wasn't fast enough to be a successful Fade. I guess people just think it's too easy or something, elitest prigs. =P

    Other than that. The new onos sounds cool! I'm guessing they're going to have abilities limited to 1 ability per hive? So only the basic ability will be available at the start?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think they complained because instead of getting to play a fun, innovative HL mod they got to stare at a GIF for a while and listen to their teammates have fun.
  • CoolCookieCooksCoolCookieCooks Pretty Girl Join Date: 2003-05-18 Member: 16446Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation
    Actually it was compiled out of 6 or so static images being morphed ;)
  • PhaetonPhaeton Join Date: 2008-05-03 Member: 64203Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1715978:date=Jul 6 2009, 06:00 PM:name=ZeroFate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZeroFate @ Jul 6 2009, 06:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715978"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, a few typos:

    In NS1 he lacked “purity of purpose” in NS1.

    This ability lets the player stomp his legs on the ground and send out a shockwave in front of hit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Also this typo:

    All of his abilities were designed this in mind. ---> All of his abilities were designed with this in mind.

    But yeah great job! The onos sounds like a lot of fun to play. Can't wait to hear about the rest :) I always wished there would be a new alien in NS2 but it seems that they will all play much different so it will be like having almost all new 5 aliens! :D
  • PhaetonPhaeton Join Date: 2008-05-03 Member: 64203Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1716324:date=Jul 8 2009, 09:20 AM:name=ShadowDrgn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ShadowDrgn @ Jul 8 2009, 09:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716324"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're forced to sit out of the game every time you die. If your team doesn't have enough IPs, you may have to wait awhile! Counter-strike was the first (I believe) FPS to force dead players to sit out for minutes at a time, and it became the most popular online FPS for many years. There are some good arguments against devour, but I disagree that this one is important.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Yeah I concur, its not a horribly long time to wait to be "devoured out". Plus you can be saved! It forces you to not rush all the time like in combat and acts strategy so you actually care about dying in the game a lot more.
  • SirotSirot Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58851Members
    edited July 2009
    Regarding the Onos' appearance, it looks unfinished to me. The front of the creature (head and front legs) looks ace. That's good. The entire back section of the creature is however very boring in comparison. It's just a blue skin without any detailing. No exposed spine. No additional tentacles. No infestation. I looked at the Onos reveal again and notice how the concept art showed only the front of the Onos. It's as if the Modeler was only given that image for him and he had to make up the rest.

    <img src="http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/262/onosdetail.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
  • OnozkiOnozki Join Date: 2005-04-20 Member: 48948Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    <!--quoteo(post=1716384:date=Jul 8 2009, 12:27 PM:name=Sirot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sirot @ Jul 8 2009, 12:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716384"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regarding the Onos' appearance, it looks unfinished to me. The front of the creature (head and front legs) looks ace. That's good. The entire back section of the creature is however very boring in comparison. It's just a blue skin without any detailing. No exposed spine. No additional tentacles. No infestation. I looked at the Onos reveal again and notice how the concept art showed only the front of the Onos. It's as if the Modeler was only given that image for him and he had to make up the rest.

    <img src="http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/262/onosdetail.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Idd, and that middle "tentacle" on onoses arse looks like turd to me. But that frontside is really great.
  • CerebralCerebral Join Date: 2003-06-25 Member: 17689Members
    Devour was the only part of NS1 that I truly hated. Being removed from the game and having to stare at a static screen was retarded. Thank you for removing it and please never put it back.
  • davidcavalcantedavidcavalcante Join Date: 2009-06-08 Member: 67754Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1716393:date=Jul 8 2009, 03:41 PM:name=Cerebral)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cerebral @ Jul 8 2009, 03:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716393"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Devour was the only part of NS1 that I truly hated. Being removed from the game and having to stare at a static screen was retarded. Thank you for removing it and please never put it back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Have u ever played as Alien?

    Now tell me how Kharaa will defend itself against an army of 10-15 Heavy Armour coming in direction of the Hive.

    Spores? LOL
    Offense Chambers? LOL
    Fades? LOL (an unique HA with HMG can kill like 2 or 3 fades)
    That "Gore" attack is just like the 1st weapon of NS1 Onos with the addition of knockback effect.

    Now that Devour has been removed, then UW should decrease HA HP and Armor or REALLY increase the damage of "Gore" attack.
  • CerebralCerebral Join Date: 2003-06-25 Member: 17689Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1716401:date=Jul 8 2009, 03:15 PM:name=davidcavalcante)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (davidcavalcante @ Jul 8 2009, 03:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716401"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Have u ever played as Alien?

    Now tell me how Kharaa will defend itself against an army of 10-15 Heavy Armour coming in direction of the Hive.

    Spores? LOL
    Offense Chambers? LOL
    Fades? LOL (an unique HA with HMG can kill like 2 or 3 fades)
    That "Gore" attack is just like the 1st weapon of NS1 Onos with the addition of knockback effect.

    Now that Devour has been removed, then UW should decrease HA HP and Armor or REALLY increase the damage of "Gore" attack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You don't know anything about any of the abilities of any of the other classes, so what makes you so qualified to claim that the removal of one ability will automatically cause a game imbalance? The game isn't even near a complete state yet so we have no clue what the marine and alien hard counters will be for each other. In addition, devour was a poorly thought out ability which completely contradicted the play style of the onos class. I stand by my remark.
  • ItalianmagicItalianmagic Join Date: 2008-12-13 Member: 65755Members
    edited July 2009
    I'm pretty sure HA's are gone away with the <a href="http://www.flowbee.com/" target="_blank">flowbee</a>.... so don't stress.
  • badmoonbadmoon Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7212Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Fascinating, I can't wait to see the whole picture. I'm sure every ability will be fun to use and useful, or otherwise will be tweaked changed accordingly.
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation
    Seeing as the bulk of standard players never used Devour properly (and I speak from experience, having watched eat-n-run nublets for long stretches) I'm happy to see it go but also sad because it was pretty much the only thing marines really freaked out over.

    I'm hopeful that the new singularity of purpose will make for a easier-to-balance Onos. Perhaps the only tweaks needed in future patches will be health/toughness related.
  • DawormDaworm Join Date: 2009-06-22 Member: 67900Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1716436:date=Jul 9 2009, 09:22 AM:name=Necrosis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Necrosis @ Jul 9 2009, 09:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716436"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seeing as the bulk of standard players never used Devour properly (and I speak from experience, having watched eat-n-run nublets for long stretches) I'm happy to see it go but also sad because it was pretty much the only thing marines really freaked out over.

    I'm hopeful that the new singularity of purpose will make for a easier-to-balance Onos. Perhaps the only tweaks needed in future patches will be health/toughness related.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think marines will be freaking when they come to a single file corridor, turn a corner and there's a happy little onos with bone shield activated.

    Ruh Oh...
  • SentrySteveSentrySteve .txt Join Date: 2002-03-09 Member: 290Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1716436:date=Jul 8 2009, 07:22 PM:name=Necrosis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Necrosis @ Jul 8 2009, 07:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716436"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seeing as the bulk of standard players never used Devour properly (and I speak from experience, having watched eat-n-run nublets for long stretches) I'm happy to see it go but also sad because it was pretty much the only thing marines really freaked out over.

    I'm hopeful that the new singularity of purpose will make for a easier-to-balance Onos. Perhaps the only tweaks needed in future patches will be health/toughness related.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    I just hope that the Onos is badass enough. I mean, his name is "oh no" yet that "oh no" moment is completely lost on me when it's the fifth time I've seen an Onos in a single round. I'd love to see these things take up massive amounts of resources but in turn be like a tank on wheels.
  • gustavo00gustavo00 Join Date: 2009-05-28 Member: 67509Members
    i dont know.. ir eally like devour.. and it was useful.

    You people say : "oh, i took out a marine from the game... "
    "the player cannot play for that time..."

    Well.. CS is a little famous, and if you are lucky enough and get killed by a lucky AWP noob shooter within the first 10 seconds of a round.. well, stay put for the next 3 minutes.

    I dont know how bad could it really be to be kept out of the game for a few seconds, prayingm hoping that somebody kills the onos and you get out alive.

    And i dont think "devour and run" oni (?) are noobs... They sometimes do a really good job keeping HA's away or eating annoying jps. At one point i got very good at devouring people and when there was a marine rush, most usually with JP, they would say : OH F&$@ THIS ONOS! CHEATER! HACKER! NOOB! F$#% YOU!

    And that's how we know we are doing a good job devouring JP... Well.. HAs are way too easy to hit.

    Of course they will balance the game in some way against HA. They can take it out, create a new ability to kill HAs, thay can reduce HA armor or something... don't worry little grasshopers. Everything is going to be alright!
  • schkorpioschkorpio I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members
    i basically stopped playing any game that has long regular respawn times - CS being one of them, i never found it fun to die and not be able to respawn for minutes at a time its just silly.
  • ChayeitaoesChayeitaoes Join Date: 2008-12-04 Member: 65654Members
    I feel, as an alien player, that marines should start with little to no armor, and it must be a first concern for the marines. Having this little bit of armor should make the attacks of the aliens much more significant, such as a skulk biting a marines chest. Shouldn't it just take a huge hunk out and leave the person incapacitated? Because I know If I was in this game and I got bit in the chest by a vicious little monster I would fall down and start to panic.
  • JohnnySmash77JohnnySmash77 Join Date: 2009-07-07 Member: 68079Members
    IMO it's fine for the Onos to make the Skulk obsolete, considering its resource cost. You have to remember the alien classes aren't like TF where you can just start with whatever you want, there's an RTS element and the Onos is basically the high-tier alien unit. An Onos *should* be able to run in and kill a ton of marines unlike a Skulk (unless you're a sneaky skulk hah). From what they're saying I don't think they're going to make the Onos as weak as a skulk, though.
  • JohnnySmash77JohnnySmash77 Join Date: 2009-07-07 Member: 68079Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1715978:date=Jul 6 2009, 11:00 AM:name=ZeroFate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZeroFate @ Jul 6 2009, 11:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715978"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also think you guys may want to revise the Bone Shield ability in time, because it basically gives the Marines a reason not to shoot the enemy. If an Onos is walking down a hallway with his shield extended, and there's no room to flank him (or simply too little to try it) then all that's left is to sit and watch (or run). I think that's going to kill a lot of atmosphere, and play too well in many strategies. In the article, you used "During this time..." which suggests Bone Shield has a limited duration, and that obviously fixes a lot of the possible exploits, but you're still stuck with Marines staring at an alien with no reason to shoot it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Wow this is a really insightful and great point. It's really odd to have an enemy that you don't want to shoot at.
  • gustavo00gustavo00 Join Date: 2009-05-28 Member: 67509Members
    <a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/video/onos-player-natural-selection/52498" target="_blank">http://www.gametrailers.com/video/onos-pla...selection/52498</a>

    ONOS REVEAL! :P

    1st page gametrailers ^^
  • sicbudsicbud Join Date: 2009-07-08 Member: 68083Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1716500:date=Jul 9 2009, 06:23 AM:name=gustavo00)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gustavo00 @ Jul 9 2009, 06:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716500"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/video/onos-player-natural-selection/52498" target="_blank">http://www.gametrailers.com/video/onos-pla...selection/52498</a>

    ONOS REVEAL! :P

    1st page gametrailers ^^<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I just saw that! Awesome!
  • steppin'razorsteppin'razor Join Date: 2008-09-18 Member: 65033Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1716494:date=Jul 9 2009, 10:15 PM:name=JohnnySmash77)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnnySmash77 @ Jul 9 2009, 10:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716494"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow this is a really insightful and great point. It's really odd to have an enemy that you don't want to shoot at.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Just because its out of the box doesn't mean its bad. It adds new layers of detail, flanking maneuver etc. Think about tf2's medic uber, while you can't shoot it, having it adds a lot more meta gaming (blasting away with stickies, pyro juggling, sandman on medic or their partner). Remember guys we are going to muck around a lot during the early stages of release and its going to get refined a lot, like all games. Watch some early game play footage of tf2 and see how much it has evolved since their internal testing (great example is the demo).
  • DeprecatedDeprecated Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8619Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1716207:date=Jul 7 2009, 12:05 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Jul 7 2009, 12:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716207"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Any relation to umbrage?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yep!

    So umbrage can mean vague or unclear, which shadows often are, or it more often means offense/resentment. In the later 1500s, when you would take offense to something it was often referred to as being "in the shadow" of the comment. By the early 1600s, the use of the word "umbrage" had replaced the phrase.

    Woops, sorry for being really off-topic.

    ONOSONOSONOS!

    -Dep
  • ViPrViPr Resident naysayer Join Date: 2002-10-17 Member: 1515Members
    edited July 2009
    ok here's my technical analysis of the Onos texturing:

    the flesh around the face appears to look metallic when i think the intention was to make it look wet. the specular map should not have any color there. your programmer should be telling the artist that he's misunderstanding the shaders. anyway it should be very easy to correct this. let me know if i'm correct.
  • godhatesglobesgodhatesglobes Join Date: 2009-07-09 Member: 68095Members
    In terms of the visual art, I found myself a bit disappointed-- not so much with the modeling or texturing-- but the animation.

    I have some professional feedback, if you're interested.

    dan@fishbeat.com
  • ObraxisObraxis Subnautica Animator & Generalist, NS2 Person Join Date: 2004-07-24 Member: 30071Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Supporter, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts
    <!--quoteo(post=1716663:date=Jul 10 2009, 12:13 AM:name=godhatesglobes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (godhatesglobes @ Jul 10 2009, 12:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716663"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In terms of the visual art, I found myself a bit disappointed-- not so much with the modeling or texturing-- but the animation.

    I have some professional feedback, if you're interested.

    dan@fishbeat.com<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Why not post them in here Dan?

    I'm also a professional animator. I'd be inclined to wait until the game is released or more footage before further critiquing. I mean, sure the weight of the Onos isnt quite right in places. But who is to say that the artificial gravity in the Space station/planet is Earth-class? That would afftect a lot of the animation and weight/timing. From playing NS1, I always thought that gravity was about 0.7 or 0.8 that of earth anyways. Though I do think that the flop-down of the Onos tendrils on his back/neck at the end of the movie (when he's launched himself up then down to roar), is a bit slow compaired to the rest of the video.

    I think I want to see more of the other classes so I can compair and contrast what style/gravity etc they're going for. Though I'm stoked NS2 will contain a lot more animation than NS1. :)
  • DawormDaworm Join Date: 2009-06-22 Member: 67900Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1716677:date=Jul 10 2009, 06:18 PM:name=Obraxis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Obraxis @ Jul 10 2009, 06:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716677"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Though I do think that the flop-down of the Onos tendrils on his back/neck at the end of the movie (when he's launched himself up then down to roar), is a bit slow compaired to the rest of the video.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    As the tendrils are essentially the result of Kharaa infestation (the "controlling" entity over the onos?) perhaps it is semi-sentient and semi-resistant to movement??
  • OBhaveOBhave Join Date: 2003-03-13 Member: 14462Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1716192:date=Jul 7 2009, 10:31 AM:name=Deprecated)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deprecated @ Jul 7 2009, 10:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716192"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyways, I'm very, very excited about the onos this time around. Onos in NS1 were often used as hit-and-run units, devouring a marine and running and hiding until the marine died. Not only was it most definitely not fun for marines to have to look at a digestive tract for ~10 seconds, but the whole "rescue" dynamic was almost totally worthless in non-combat games. Some of the most effective tactics were to send marines in to block the onos escaping using their body in a doorway, and the cries coming from a dead onos due to getting trapped running away from a skulk that's trying to get into the fight got old in a hurry. Due to the "needs" of this strategy for onos, there was rarely any teamwork and people would often damage the team (or at least the enjoyment of the team) by saving for onos just for the sake of devouring. I'd be more than happy to lose that skill and re-focus the onos as a team-based unit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    +1
  • radforChristradforChrist USA Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6871Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester
    edited July 2009
    <b>FOR NS1:</b>As someone who plays on the few community NS servers left, I have to say without devour, Onos would be almost useless. They serve to disrupt at best in most games (especially since remaining servers are 20+ players), and with devour, at least they can pick off HA's one by one and dwindle the count. In many of the cases an Onos eats a Heavy, there's little to no chance he could have killed that same HA marine in that situation. I'm a huge advocate of devour. Honestly, as marine, or commander, when I see an onos, I simply know that if the marines all rush it, it WILL die. Redempt onos' still fall fast with focused firepower. It's not until you get 2-3 of them together do they really become a real threat.

    <b>IN NS2:</b> We don't know the upgrade paths of marines, HA (or its replacement), nor the remaining abilities of the other classes of Kharaa. I do know this, Flayra and co. are busy trying to create an immersive and fun game, with visuals and abilities that will make you feel more involved when playing. Let them dream as much as they can right now without too much concern over perfect balance. That part will come into play in testing. Anyone remember the pre 1.0 screenshots of power armor?

    ONOS APPEARANCE: I agree the entire back half of the onos is "meh", I'd have expected a small amount of bone armor on it. As it looks now, the skin doesn't look thick, it actually appears fragile to me, and a few rounds of an HMG look like they'd shear right through.
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