Shotgun...

Konohas Perverted HermitKonohas Perverted Hermit Join Date: 2008-09-26 Member: 65075Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Ammo Types...</div>Shotguns in the real world can use a variation of ammunition. Along with various ammo types shotguns also have different sizes in shells (not gauge rating but overall length of the shell) ranging from 2.5" to 3.5". Below is a list of different ammo types used in various "lethal" shotgun applications today. NOTE: This is not a discussion of gauge sizes in shotguns, assuming that the TSA uses 12 gauge (8 gauge used to exist years ago, and 10 gauge still exists today (smaller the gauge rating the larger in diameter the round is)).

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Birdshot</b> - sizes are numbered similar to the shotgun gauges; the smaller the number, the larger the shot. Generally birdshot is just called "shot", such as "number 9 shot" or "BB shot". A useful method for remembering the diameter of numbered birdshot is simply to subtract the shot size from 17. The resulting answer is the diameter of the shot in hundredths of an inch. For example, number 2 shot gives 17-2 = 15, meaning that the diameter of number 2 shot is 15/100 or 0.15". B shot is .170 inches, and sizes go up in .01 increments for BB and BBB.
<b>000 Buck</b> - 8 lead pellets (0.36")
<b>00 Buck</b> - 9 lead pellets (0.33")
<b>0 Buck</b> - 12 lead pellets (0.32")
<b>1 Buck</b> - 16 lead pellets (0.30")
<b>4 Buck</b> - 27 lead pellets (0.24")
<b>QB 8</b> - 8 pellets (Armor Piercing) - Quadrangle Buck is made from a steel cylinder cut into two layers of four pie-shaped pieces per layer. The numerous sharp edges gives excellent penetration; however, the light weight and poor ballistic shape limits its effective range.
<b>Flechettes</b> - 32 flechettes (Armor Piercing) - Flechettes are essentially small steel nails with tiny fins swaged into the rear.
<b>Slug</b> - Slugs will pretty well flatten any target, armored or not; however, the issue of over penetration will determine whether you want to take the solid or the hollow-point slug.
<b>Slug HP</b> - Hollow-point slugs. Less penetration than regular slugs.
<b>Frag-12</b> - shotgun round is a series of special purpose shotgun grenades, including high explosive blast, fragmentation, and HEAP grenades intended to be fired from any 12-ga shotgun. It has been proposed as an armament for modern UAVs and is currently being tested for military deployment.
<b>Grenade</b> - rounds use exploding projectiles to increase long range lethality. These are currently experimental, but the British FRAG-12, which comes in both armor penetrating and fragmentary forms, is under consideration by military forces.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The shotguns in Natural Selection, are basically a Number 6 Bird Shot (guessing offhand here) round if they could be compared to anything. My idea is to allow right from the get go (no upgrades needed) either Bird Shot or a Rifled Slug. Later on allow an upgrade once the Armory has been advanced, to allow for an upgraded selection of ammunition for the shotgun. Still allowing the use of Number 6 Bird Shot or a Rifled Slug, or if given by the Commander (maybe even a selection on the Armory) Flechettes or Frag-12 rounds (maybe just keep the Frag-12 rounds high explosive). Also the Commander could decide to make all shotguns dropped one ammo type if wanted (such as all Flechettes).

Anyhow, discuss.

Comments

  • ryknow69ryknow69 Join Date: 2008-03-24 Member: 63952Members
    Again, I made a similar topic awhile back >.> no one really posted.

    I know about 90% of all the shotgun slugs in the world used by the US Army, and its allies, and our police.

    My topic was Selective Upgrades, like 2 pages back, it was selective upgrades for anything, even ammo types.

    I liked the idea of the PLAYER choosing his ammo type, add more of the slugs, thats like 1outof1,000,000 types of slugs, we got tazer slugs ffs! So be a tad creative with like 5 new types of slugs the TSA made.
  • aNytiMeaNytiMe Join Date: 2008-03-31 Member: 64007Members, Constellation
    edited October 2008
    Being the resident firearms expert, I'd like to clear up some misconceptions.

    Birdshot can't kill without the shooter completely lucking out (hit the eye/neck) and therefore it is safe to say that the NS shotgun is 000buck at the very least. (Cheney's victim took a birdshot blast to the face and he survived, for comparison) Out of all of the suggested ammo types, I'd only consider the following:

    00buck (as it is in NS)
    Slug (unrifled slug from a rifled shotgun for perfect accuracy up to 100 yards, which is the falloff range)
    Grenade/Incendiary (good vs buildings and infestation)
  • ryknow69ryknow69 Join Date: 2008-03-24 Member: 63952Members
    edited October 2008
    Any, I know a lot of ammo types used today, as I love the military.

    Fin Stabilized HE Flechette Cartridge) We use them today, it's basically the explosive grenade slug designed to go a decent distance.

    Tazer Tipped Shotgun Slug) Used by riot police now, since it was made in like 2006, it sends 30 seconds of charged electric energy into the target's nerves, paralyzing them. Good for slowing that fade for some seconds.

    High Focus Incendiary Cartridge) Used against lightly armored targets, it shoots not lead, but 6 red hot copper pellets at a target. The slug's outer plastic case is ripped apart, like normal, and a metal cylinder is launched 4.5 feet from the barrel before a small charge blasts open the thin metal cover, and heating the copper pellets. We use them in our auto Shotty's against technicals in Iraq. Good at hurting armor.

    Just rolling some ammo types off the top of my head, I got more, you can comment on these 3.
  • Konohas Perverted HermitKonohas Perverted Hermit Join Date: 2008-09-26 Member: 65075Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1690759:date=Oct 18 2008, 06:55 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Oct 18 2008, 06:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690759"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Being the resident firearms expert, I'd like to clear up some misconceptions.

    Birdshot can't penetrate the skin and therefore it is safe to say that the NS shotgun is 000buck at the very least. (Cheney's victim took a birdshot blast to the face and he survived, for comparison) Out of all of the suggested ammo types, I'd only consider the following:

    00buck (as it is in NS)
    Slug (unrifled slug from a rifled shotgun for perfect accuracy up to 100 yards, which is the falloff range)
    Grenade/Incendiary (good vs buildings and infestation)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Are you stupid? Birdshot can kill a person... Birdshot will damage the hell out of flesh but lacks the punch to do anything serious to bones. If it were double aught Buckshot the spread would be tighter, and you'd be able to shoot about 50 yards... Expert my ass.
  • Rush_Of_PeonsRush_Of_Peons Join Date: 2003-02-19 Member: 13728Members
    edited October 2008
    Sod whatever realistic ammo we have now, arguing over them just results in flame wars and closed threads.

    Now, what will it bring to the gameplay, how will it be implemented, and most of all why do we need it?

    <!--coloro:#4169E1--><span style="color:#4169E1"><!--/coloro-->Gameplay<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
    From what I can see, we can go from the current shot pellets, to something that will damage larger life forms, say slugs or armour piercing rounds. The slugs will be harder to aim, as there is no spread, so great against larger targets, not so great for those small lerks or skulks coming at you a million miles an hour. So it could balance out quite nicely, especially if it has high damage, but a low firing rate.

    <!--coloro:#4169E1--><span style="color:#4169E1"><!--/coloro-->Now, how would this be implemented?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> If the player has a menu, it could be frustrating to have to swap between them, and refill if you decide to change ammo half way through using it. I think it could be an upgraded shotgun, say researched and dropped seperately to the pellet firing shotgun. No hassle of selecting your own ammo type, just go up to the armoury and bomb up.

    Taser ammo, while interesting, could be overpowered. Just as stomp is frustrating for marines, this will be frustrating for aliens, and seeing that the aliens need it to get into close quarters where most of their attacks work, with marines they could have one person tazer the fade/onos, and have other marines finish it off with ranged attacks, this would not be fun. While the disadvantage is you cannot kill as effectively, you still have a pistol to do 200 damage with, add other marines into this mix and it could be too easy to down the higher life forms.
  • darktimesdarktimes Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63247Members
    we should look at this how it will change/enhance gameplay. if it does enhance it..

    im not a millitary guy, and i give s""t about how they are called or the data IRL,
    my wish is that the cone of fire is decreased, so that you need to aim, but being able to damage something from afar, best example is HL1 shotgun to hl2 shotgun.

    and keep in mind that NS2 will have secondary attacks. this could be used to change ammo types on the fly. (but on 0. need armory to fill) to the list above i see only 1 type who could be usefull. granades. turning the shotgun into a small granadelancher.
  • HawkeyeHawkeye Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1855Members
    Considering that we could be shooting gumdrops and potatoes out of these guns for all the realism we *must* have, I tend to think priority is higher with balance issues rather than realism. Realism only comes second in a game set in a science fiction ambience. For that matter, wouldn't even be bad to deviant from realism a bit. I honestly couldn't care less if it was a lightning gun so long as it wasn't completely overpowered and caused the frontiersmen to win virtually every game.

    I think if you are talking about realism, if all marines were equipped with shotguns with a small cone of fire, you'd kill an onos in two shots (possibly one). Though, you'd never see that in natural selection not because of realism but because of balance. Which means the shotgun in ns2 will first and foremost be balanced, then be perhaps modified to resemble a shotgun which already exists without modifying damage or rate of fire significantly.
  • ryknow69ryknow69 Join Date: 2008-03-24 Member: 63952Members
    Dark, so are you for the Fin Stabilized HE ya de da? Basicly a nade but with accuracy.

    Hawk is right, balance before realism.

    I can edit my 2nd post to keep a organized list?
  • aNytiMeaNytiMe Join Date: 2008-03-31 Member: 64007Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1690771:date=Oct 19 2008, 05:42 AM:name=Konohas Perverted Hermit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Konohas Perverted Hermit @ Oct 19 2008, 05:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690771"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you stupid? Birdshot can kill a person... Birdshot will damage the hell out of flesh but lacks the punch to do anything serious to bones. If it were double aught Buckshot the spread would be tighter, and you'd be able to shoot about 50 yards... Expert my ass.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    A) Birdshot is called birdshot for a reason. FBI protocol is - in order for ammunition to be effective, it has to penetrate 12 inches of tissue at the minimum, preferably 18 inches. The larger birdshot barely penetrates 4"-6", this makes for a nasty surface wound, but doesn't quite have the lethality to stop anything short of a bird - or a cat. <a href="http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14_4.htm" target="_blank">Also, the box of truth doesn't lie.</a>
    B) Barrel length plays a huge role in shot spread. A 5 inch barrel will have huge spread compared to the legal minimum of 18".
    C) There should be 2 different shots offered to the player <u>at most</u>. Anything more and it becomes redundant. I'd pick 00buck and 1buck.
  • Konohas Perverted HermitKonohas Perverted Hermit Join Date: 2008-09-26 Member: 65075Members
    Basically what I said, in a more worded state. Go shoot yourself in the neck or stomach with it, tell me if you live.

    Of course it does, but considering if you had even shot a sawnoff barrel shotgun before you'd know that Buckshot tends to still stayed pretty well clustered.

    I'd pick triple aught Buckshot and Flechettes. Damn those things are fun hehe.
  • aNytiMeaNytiMe Join Date: 2008-03-31 Member: 64007Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->tell me if you live<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <!--quoteo(post=1690814:date=Oct 19 2008, 08:39 PM:name=Konohas Perverted Hermit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Konohas Perverted Hermit @ Oct 19 2008, 08:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690814"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->in the neck<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->or stomach.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yes. (And I would still be able to take your gun away from you and club you to death with it)

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Of course it does, but considering if you had even shot a sawnoff barrel shotgun before you'd know that Buckshot tends to still stayed pretty well clustered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yea, the spread on the shotguns looks nothing like the spread you see in videogames. It takes some suspension of disbelief, but hey, I can believe that the TSA have come up with a way to make their shotguns have more spread.
  • Konohas Perverted HermitKonohas Perverted Hermit Join Date: 2008-09-26 Member: 65075Members
    edited October 2008
    Back on Topic, please. Maybe allow for double or triple aught Buckshot from the get go, and only one upgrade to either Flechettes or a Frag-12 type (probably high explosive).

    Off topic: I've shot some 3" Number 4 Birdshot Magnums (Mr. Firearm Expert should know what that means) out of my 590 Mossberg at a pig (it was dieing anyways) on my grandpa's farm below the rib cage (so stomach) and it was dead on the first shot. Pigs have much thicker skin that humans, so yah.

    P.S. You cannot learn everything from WikiPedia, real life is the best learning tool.
  • ryknow69ryknow69 Join Date: 2008-03-24 Member: 63952Members
    Cool, thanks for killing another living being <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> . How sick?

    Yes, birdshot is a very, very, VERY weak slug to be using on an onos, hell, a skulk, so you can drop it.
  • aNytiMeaNytiMe Join Date: 2008-03-31 Member: 64007Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1690835:date=Oct 20 2008, 04:28 AM:name=Konohas Perverted Hermit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Konohas Perverted Hermit @ Oct 20 2008, 04:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690835"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Back on Topic, please. Maybe allow for double or triple aught Buckshot from the get go, and only one upgrade to either Flechettes or a Frag-12 type (probably high explosive).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    We never went off-topic. I just went ahead and demolished your birdshot round suggestion by checking it against reality.

    I'm afraid in-game flechette ammunition would be too similar to shot ammunition, unless you gave it some cool unrealistic property. (1 bounce off walls for 1/2 damage?)

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Off topic: I've shot some 3" Number 4 Birdshot Magnums (Mr. Firearm Expert should know what that means) out of my 590 Mossberg at a pig (it was dieing anyways) on my grandpa's farm below the rib cage (so stomach) and it was dead on the first shot. Pigs have much thicker skin that humans, so yah.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Cut the condescending tone if you want to have any degree of credibility in the future. <a href="http://www.shadonet.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/bird4_heavy.jpg" target="_blank">Ballistics gelatin test on #4 birdshot.</a>
    As you can see, the birdshot only penetrates 6.5" into the gelatin. 6.5 inches < 12 inches. Therefore #4 birdshot doesn't have the power needed to bring down a bad guy. Also, humans don't instantly succumb to stomach wounds and wouldn't be stopped unless the spinal column was severed. Long term health effects are another story.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[P.S. You cannot learn everything from WikiPedia, real life is the best learning tool.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You are precisely wrong, anecdotes don't make for good evidence. Wikipedia doesn't make good evidence either, but I've frequented enough forums and have seen a lot of ballistics gelatin tests to know what I'm talking about.

    Since we're on the topic of credibility: Yes, I've fired plenty of shotguns, including lever and bolt action ones.
  • NicksaerianNicksaerian Join Date: 2008-10-15 Member: 65207Members, Constellation
    Alright kids, let's keep this topic rolling instead of flame-fests and e-peen contests.
  • aNytiMeaNytiMe Join Date: 2008-03-31 Member: 64007Members, Constellation
    edited October 2008
    Free choices:
    00buck
    1buck

    Tier 1 Upgrade:
    Flechettes - Wall bounce and no falloff range

    Tier 2 Upgrade:
    Incendiary fragmentation grenade - The fragmentations are incendiary by nature and damage infestation. Has about half the explosion radius of the tampon.
    SABOT Penetrator - 2x damage to large units (fade; onos) and structures. Has a longer cooldown between shots, so it is a lot less useful against lower life forms, while drilling holes through the larger ones.

    Do you like?

    <!--quoteo(post=1690855:date=Oct 20 2008, 03:05 PM:name=Nicksaerian)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Nicksaerian @ Oct 20 2008, 03:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690855"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alright kids, let's keep this topic rolling instead of flame-fests and e-peen contests.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Stop trolling and contribute something to the discussion or leave. All you are doing is increasing the chance of a thread lock. The flaming going on is very mild and is hermit's defensive reaction to a challenge to his idea. It is to be expected.
  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1690849:date=Oct 20 2008, 09:47 AM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Oct 20 2008, 09:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690849"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm afraid in-game flechette ammunition would be too similar to shot ammunition, unless you gave it some cool unrealistic property. (1 bounce off walls for 1/2 damage?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually something similar was in the <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2008/05/unknown_worlds_podcast_24_ns2_first_prototypes" target="_blank">Prototypes Podcast</a>(#24). Specifically flechette ammuntion for the shotgun that would bounce around corners.
    <!--quoteo(post=1690849:date=Oct 20 2008, 09:47 AM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Oct 20 2008, 09:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690849"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We never went off-topic. I just went ahead and demolished your birdshot round suggestion by checking it against reality.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'm impressed with your knowledge of firearms, and I understand the need to prove your aptitude when called out, but let's focus more on gameplay ideas than real life munitions. I'm sure you can find more ways to improve and rename the ideas to make them more "realistic" as you did in the post above without this topic devolving into gunpr0n.
  • ryknow69ryknow69 Join Date: 2008-03-24 Member: 63952Members
    Yes, yes, we need to stay on gamepaly munition ideas. So non-HE Fin Stablized flechette that can go pew pew around corners at the cost of 1/4th origninal damage, and only bounce off two walls so... .1875 of original damage is as LOW as you can get, which if using 30 dmg per flechette, would be 24 dmg.

    So, what will the 'tier' be determined by? Obs, arms, adv arm?

    hey, Local, I worship half the military(basicly I love the design and gunwork and shot alot of auto guns) =( you made me feel like sh** =P

    Any, it started to get out of hand abit, so don't bit** at him.

    It's true, riot police USED to use Birdshots, since they weren't found as 'Inhumane' Munition for Anti-Riot police, now adays, they use the new tazer tipped slug as a replacement, and replacment for beanbag. The birdshot shouldn't be talked about anymore below this post as we all can agree, it wont do much damage to aliens with nice thick armor skin, so wouldn't be thought of as a pratical munition on alien forms.

    I personally think the flechette and the High Focus Incendiary Cartridge would do best, the incendiary can kill DI and do some burning damage, the flechette can do the ninjar bounce of corners and kill a skulk leaping mid-air.
  • Konohas Perverted HermitKonohas Perverted Hermit Join Date: 2008-09-26 Member: 65075Members
    edited October 2008
    <!--quoteo(post=1690842:date=Oct 20 2008, 03:17 AM:name=ryknow69)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ryknow69 @ Oct 20 2008, 03:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690842"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cool, thanks for killing another living being <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> . How sick?

    Yes, birdshot is a very, very, VERY weak slug to be using on an onos, hell, a skulk, so you can drop it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Any time bud. Got a cat you don't like? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

    Birdshot isn't even a Slug projectile. It is a series of spiral packed BB's or pellets.

    <!--quoteo(post=1690849:date=Oct 20 2008, 06:47 AM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Oct 20 2008, 06:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690849"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We never went off-topic. I just went ahead and demolished your birdshot round suggestion by checking it against reality.

    I'm afraid in-game flechette ammunition would be too similar to shot ammunition, unless you gave it some cool unrealistic property. (1 bounce off walls for 1/2 damage?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Flechettes, are a cluster of armor piercing nails with stabilizing tail fins. I'd person prefer them against Fades/Onos, or maybe a solid rifled slug for Onos.

    <!--quoteo(post=1690849:date=Oct 20 2008, 06:47 AM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Oct 20 2008, 06:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690849"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cut the condescending tone if you want to have any degree of credibility in the future. <a href="http://www.shadonet.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/bird4_heavy.jpg" target="_blank">Ballistics gelatin test on #4 birdshot.</a>
    As you can see, the birdshot only penetrates 6.5" into the gelatin. 6.5 inches < 12 inches. Therefore #4 birdshot doesn't have the power needed to bring down a bad guy. Also, humans don't instantly succumb to stomach wounds and wouldn't be stopped unless the spinal column was severed. Long term health effects are another story.
    You are precisely wrong, anecdotes don't make for good evidence. Wikipedia doesn't make good evidence either, but I've frequented enough forums and have seen a lot of ballistics gelatin tests to know what I'm talking about.

    Since we're on the topic of credibility: Yes, I've fired plenty of shotguns, including lever and bolt action ones.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That test didn't involve "Magnum" rounds. Learn please. If you cannot find the answer I will tell you but until then I stick by my choice.
  • aNytiMeaNytiMe Join Date: 2008-03-31 Member: 64007Members, Constellation
    edited October 2008
    <!--quoteo(post=1690906:date=Oct 20 2008, 09:14 PM:name=Konohas Perverted Hermit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Konohas Perverted Hermit @ Oct 20 2008, 09:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690906"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Any time bud. Got a cat you don't like? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

    Birdshot isn't even a Slug projectile. It is a series of spiral packed BB's or pellets.
    Flechettes, are a cluster of armor piercing nails with stabilizing tail fins. I'd person prefer them against Fades/Onos, or maybe a solid rifled slug for Onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Flechettes = shot gameplay wise. You could argue that flechettes will do more damage and have less spread, but how is that going to stop it from just being a second weapons 1 upgrade? Remember, we aren't looking for subtle differences, we are looking for the cool effect.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That test didn't involve "Magnum" rounds. Learn please. If you cannot find the answer I will tell you but until then I stick by my choice.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    *sigh* --Comprox
  • Konohas Perverted HermitKonohas Perverted Hermit Join Date: 2008-09-26 Member: 65075Members
    edited October 2008
    <!--quoteo(post=1690911:date=Oct 20 2008, 02:34 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Oct 20 2008, 02:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690911"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Flechettes = shot gameplay wise. You could argue that flechettes will do more damage and have less spread, but how is that going to stop it from just being a second weapons 1 upgrade? Remember, we aren't looking for subtle differences, we are looking for the cool effect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    No I still think they should be an upgraded round, but with the tail fins they should be able to go farther in a less spread out spread.

    <!--quoteo(post=1690911:date=Oct 20 2008, 02:34 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Oct 20 2008, 02:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690911"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Overpressure rounds rarely increase efficiency beyond 10% of original energy. Go to school.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    *Yelling back doesn't help* --Comprox
  • aNytiMeaNytiMe Join Date: 2008-03-31 Member: 64007Members, Constellation
    edited October 2008
  • ComproxComprox *chortle* Canada Join Date: 2002-01-23 Member: 7Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
    Closing since both of you are just bickering now. Sigh.
This discussion has been closed.