Development Blog Update - Unknown Worlds Videocast #3

2

Comments

  • ratclawratclaw Join Date: 2008-06-12 Member: 64433Members
    I see towers....



    Anyone else thinking multi-layered maps?
  • schkorpioschkorpio I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1681992:date=Jun 26 2008, 09:26 AM:name=ratclaw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ratclaw @ Jun 26 2008, 09:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681992"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see towers....
    Anyone else thinking multi-layered maps?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    would be cool to see dynamically scripted marines fighting skulks in the background <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
    when the marines are winning the scripted marines in the background kill the aliens and keep moving forward.
    when the aliens are winning, an onos or a fade comes through and kills the marines <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

    That way it would feel like a bigger battle, and not just a little strike team in a small part of the world
  • BuzzouBuzzou Join Date: 2006-12-14 Member: 59056Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1681995:date=Jun 26 2008, 12:13 AM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(schkorpio @ Jun 26 2008, 12:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681995"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->would be cool to see dynamically scripted marines fighting skulks in the background <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
    when the marines are winning the scripted marines in the background kill the aliens and keep moving forward.
    when the aliens are winning, an onos or a fade comes through and kills the marines <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

    That way it would feel like a bigger battle, and not just a little strike team in a small part of the world<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    thats a pretty awesome idea, but i'd probably spend too much time looking out the window <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
  • Lt_HendricksonLt_Hendrickson Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14761Members
    Can you imagine staring out the window and being like "whoa bob come check this out.

    And then you hear like "awesome"

    And then you hear "Holy crap that is awesom"

    And then your think to your self, wow whos voice is that. Sounds like they been smoking too much, and then you turn around and theres a skulk just chillen with the two of you staring out the window and your like o wow skulks can talk

    And the aliens like yeah. Jumping out to say hello is a custom of ours and you guys are rude and just shoot at us

    And then the commander yells at the marines to get back to work.

    And then the alien laughs at them because they don't have a comm.

    Then the marines laugh at the skulk cause they do have comm now.

    And the skulks starts whining aboot the good ole days.




    This is not fair, their concept art is better than my 2 minute ms paint concept art
  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1682002:date=Jun 26 2008, 05:49 AM:name=Lt_Hendrickson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lt_Hendrickson @ Jun 26 2008, 05:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682002"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can you imagine staring out the window and being like "whoa bob come check this out.

    And then you hear like "awesome"

    And then you hear "Holy crap that is awesom"

    And then your think to your self, wow whos voice is that. Sounds like they been smoking too much, and then you turn around and theres a skulk just chillen with the two of you staring out the window and your like o wow skulks can talk

    And the aliens like yeah. Jumping out to say hello is a custom of ours and you guys are rude and just shoot at us<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I lol'd.
  • JaynerdJaynerd Join Date: 2008-06-26 Member: 64504Members
    The ideas presented in the last videocast will certainly make your game standout, and the use of environment and atmosphere appear to be key. I think the more you use the theme of natural selection itself, the better.

    I realized with this videocast that adaptability allows for strategy. The more options of adaptation available to the players, the more strategies they can play with.

    For instance, the progression of a game session where different possibilities and choices arise while playing is best when the player can do something in reaction to their discoveries. eg. the marines are being gassed, they can use grenades, a grenade launcher or heavy armor to adapt.

    anyway, I was thinking about some of the ideas you were talking about and the suggestions posted here. I really like your concept of landmark areas. I think this would allow for not only the player recognition you discussed but also many strategy variations.

    what if:
    -the commander is re-located to a different room? would certain "spells" be available in different rooms? such as security cameras providing additional information to the marines in a motion tracking manner, control of various facility doors/machines/trains/lights (turn off for sneaking, on for assault, flashing for "danger, filled with spore towers" or "this is the hive room"), or minor passive upgrades to health, ammo, armor, or resource gain and use costs (the commander is setup in the sickbay, thus all health packs cost 20% less resources. the commander is setup in the communications room, marines re-spawn a little faster). the same ideas could be applied to the aliens with the location of their hive (faster evolution from control of the kitchen, marine movement reducing ooze secretion from control of the sanitation room or sewage pipes, quicker cloaking transition from control of the greenhouse). The possibilities for variations based on the occupation or control of a landmark location seem endless.

    -certain structures can be packed up, carried, and re-deployed? maybe an exoskeleton is needed for this?

    -an alien could run into a room not occupied by either side, use a special variable evolution that gave just them the landmark bonus or a similar bonus to the landmark bonus (limit one room per alien per hive)?

    I understand some landmarks would be purely for visual cues and flavor, but why not have them give strategic flavor too?
  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1682008:date=Jun 26 2008, 09:40 AM:name=Jaynerd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jaynerd @ Jun 26 2008, 09:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682008"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what if:
    -the commander is re-located to a different room? would certain "spells" be available in different rooms? such as security cameras providing additional information to the marines in a motion tracking manner, control of various facility doors/machines/trains/lights (turn off for sneaking, on for assault, flashing for "danger, filled with spore towers" or "this is the hive room"), or minor passive upgrades to health, ammo, armor, or resource gain and use costs (the commander is setup in the sickbay, thus all health packs cost 20% less resources. the commander is setup in the communications room, marines re-spawn a little faster). the same ideas could be applied to the aliens with the location of their hive (faster evolution from control of the kitchen, marine movement reducing ooze secretion from control of the sanitation room or sewage pipes, quicker cloaking transition from control of the greenhouse). The possibilities for variations based on the occupation or control of a landmark location seem endless.

    -certain structures can be packed up, carried, and re-deployed? maybe an exoskeleton is needed for this?

    -an alien could run into a room not occupied by either side, use a special variable evolution that gave just them the landmark bonus or a similar bonus to the landmark bonus (limit one room per alien per hive)?

    I understand some landmarks would be purely for visual cues and flavor, but why not have them give strategic flavor too?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Give <b>Jaynerd</b> a cookie. Best first post I've ever read.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    cookies!

    Agreed. Just be careful, if the maps get too customized in of themselves, people will have to learn the map, not just the game. This is the biggest issue for Dystopia where the objectives are different in every map, so you have to learn each map, making each map almost its own game and the core game mechanics are just how you might be able to execute your plan.

    What I like about NS1 is the maps are cool and varied, but most people after a quick survey of the map know how to apply basic strategies they've built up from other maps and tweak them to the new map. Sure for the most efficient possible you still have to learn the minor details of the map, but it's not like re-learning the game and your strategies for every map.

    Still, great idea. Perhaps to mitigate this, have special cues that this room will give certain bonuses, like for cameras it's always the room with a certain model (giant screens taking up a wall) and a little camera symbol on the mini map.

    If this thread continues, we'll have to move it to the I&S forum.
  • OkazakiOkazaki Join Date: 2008-01-29 Member: 63532Members
    Dont make the view too good xD... or the players will stop killin each other and enjoy the view lol.. j/k
  • posterposter Join Date: 2008-06-26 Member: 64506Members
    I like the landmark idea and views of the outside, specifically, I think the view of the outside could add an epic feel if we have say some parts of the refinery outside covered in DI so that it looks like this map is only part of a much larger battle.

    I also like the idea of scripted battles outside or evacuations going on, it would add lots of atmosphere. on the other hand though, I don't know if it would be worth putting tons of detail in for something that would be looked at once or twice and then mostly ignored, really depends on the work involved.
  • JaynerdJaynerd Join Date: 2008-06-26 Member: 64504Members
    You are absolutely right <b>spellman23</b>, customization has to be controlled in some way. Some kind of convention could be decided on regarding the visual cue you mentioned so that all maps would use the same symbols for the same purposes. The symbols could even be "glowy"!

    <b>locallyunscene</b>, thanks, oatmeal cc, my favorite.
  • juicejuice Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12886Members, Constellation
    Jon did a great job on the video editing, so funny.

    Keep up the great work on the atmosphere, art guys.

    Flayra says 3x "SO WE CAN SHIP THE GAME!" Good to see the heat is up to a simmer now, good luck.
  • ratclawratclaw Join Date: 2008-06-12 Member: 64433Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1682015:date=Jun 26 2008, 02:59 PM:name=Blade01)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Blade01 @ Jun 26 2008, 02:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682015"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dont make the view too good xD... or the players will stop killin each other and enjoy the view lol.. j/k<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    If that came to be, maybe we could apply it to real life. Think of all the wars we could end. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    Don't worry. If you stop fighting, I'll come back later with xeno. Enjoy the sights, don't let me bother you....
  • BuzzouBuzzou Join Date: 2006-12-14 Member: 59056Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1682007:date=Jun 26 2008, 01:08 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Jun 26 2008, 01:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682007"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I lol'd.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    me too, very funny Lt_Hendrickson....

    <!--quoteo(post=1682009:date=Jun 26 2008, 02:04 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Jun 26 2008, 02:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682009"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Give <b>Jaynerd</b> a cookie. Best first post I've ever read.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    agreed, make sure its choc chip
  • Recoil_DougalRecoil_Dougal Join Date: 2005-01-17 Member: 36185Members, Constellation
    edited June 2008
    Not too much to add - just wanted to give kudos to the vid and the regular updates - not forgetting the reguler world of the punters while youre in your ivory tower (or garage) rolling in skittles.

    Elevated maps with glass floors sounded good - gives immersion and fear simultaneously.
    THe 'landmark' idea is also well thought through, but a bit of variety with 'interactables' would still be quality (ie the weldable elements).

    Also - have always thought that it is a bit weird that alien hives hang from the ceiling and yet no other alien structure can - ocs on the walls that skulks can hide behind and onoses can actually walk past would be nice I reckon <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> Would also make it a bit harder for rines to find that last pesky sc.
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
    Hi,

    Videos are better than just sound.



    I see glass. What happens when somebody use a Grenade Laucnher, or bile bomb it to death <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> Pressure difference , you see... (niark niark)
  • invader Ziminvader Zim Join Date: 2007-09-20 Member: 62376Members
    did anyone ever play a CS (originial hl1 CS) map call de_747, note this is a custome de map not the cs-747 hostage rescue map.

    anyway it was a bombing map on a flying 747 which was supposed to be airforce 1 or something similar. Twas an ok map but the really call thing was you could shoot out the doors of the plain and watch other players get sucked out of them. Supposing some maps had airlocks or destructable surfaces that could be opened and players get sucked out and die?
  • killkrazykillkrazy Join Date: 2007-09-10 Member: 62238Members
    edited June 2008
    Pardon me if this has been brought up already...
    But looking at this concept art, and that of the beautiful (yet, lacking the lack of light, hehe) hive in the bio-room...

    I cannot help but feel that the maps are feeling much more "alive" instead of derelict, dead, desolated and defunct space platforms, now I'm almost 100% certain that's the whole point, and as such I want to state something that may either be glaringly obvious to the point everyone misses it, or that might of been overlooked.

    But with these maps, I think elements that are "alive" yet out of control of either team should be added, for example:
    On the refinery setting: perhaps a room where every 30 seconds a warning siren sounds "boop.. evacuate vicinity immediately" and then 2 seconds later the doors close and an immense jet of hot steam/fire passes through the room as a kind of heat-run-off chamber or a cooling room or something... perhaps with a tiny 'heat shield' in one corner for an unlucky trappedee

    This would add an element of strategy (how can you use this room as an advantage?), unpredictability and feeling of lack of control that I don't remember seeing in the previous (early) maps. perhaps even affected by infestation?

    similar for the bio-dome map, I can envision an air-lock/quarantine room, where if an alien steps in then perhaps the room locks-down, trapping anyone inside (lone marine, lone skulk?) and then spraying a thick mist to "cleanse" and making it very difficult to see? .. maybe there's a Node in there, and marines can use, abuse or be abused by the whole mechanism?

    Just a thought <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    Interesting idea, <b>killkrazy</b>. Moved topic to <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=104440" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=104440</a> for discussion.
  • daidalosdaidalos Join Date: 2004-05-23 Member: 28854Members, Constellation
    Well, it certainly looks great but I have one question, I don't know whether it has been answered in some way, but would it be possible to make the backgrounds (the outside) dynamic?
    What I'm talking about is having smoke come out of the chimney and inserting a random trigger which would make flames burst out every two minutes or so which would then enlighten the room in which the actual players are, so it could help to spot aliens in a dark room.
    I have no idea whether a dynamic background is possible in the Source engine.
  • SkackySkacky Join Date: 2005-06-05 Member: 53189Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1682144:date=Jun 28 2008, 02:53 PM:name=daidalos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daidalos @ Jun 28 2008, 02:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682144"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, it certainly looks great but I have one question, I don't know whether it has been answered in some way, but would it be possible to make the backgrounds (the outside) dynamic?
    What I'm talking about is having smoke come out of the chimney and inserting a random trigger which would make flames burst out every two minutes or so which would then enlighten the room in which the actual players are, so it could help to spot aliens in a dark room.
    I have no idea whether a dynamic background is possible in the Source engine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    With the Source Engine, you can do it with some entites like logic_case etc. I think at the end it will become heavy in entity count, especially if these backgrounds have a lot of events like this (Source has only 2048 edicts, and I think for playability and perfect flow, 1500 will be the max count).

    Oh and by the way, great concept. I'm really looking forward to the game. Keep it up guys, I'll buy it for sure! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
  • SgtHydraSgtHydra Join Date: 2007-11-29 Member: 63046Members
    Two things:

    1. To cut down on the number of buildings, have the buildings all centralized. Basically the map is a (not perfect) square, with the buildings in the center.

    Surrouding the complex is various valleys, perhaps even a volcano. Maybe... just maybe... some infestation outside...

    2. You mentioned Bioshock. I'd really enjoy an underwater themed map. I remember something like that in NS, but forget the name of the map.

    Btw, the concept artist pwns.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1682206:date=Jun 29 2008, 05:34 PM:name=SgtHydra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SgtHydra @ Jun 29 2008, 05:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682206"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. You mentioned Bioshock. I'd really enjoy an underwater themed map. I remember something like that in NS, but forget the name of the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Well, ns_altair has a sub bay.
  • FraxinusFraxinus Join Date: 2008-03-02 Member: 63783Members, Constellation
    ^underwater gorgefort ftw.
  • ViPrViPr Resident naysayer Join Date: 2002-10-17 Member: 1515Members
    if all that stuff outside the window is far away and you can only view it through that window then you can only see it from pretty much 1 angle which means it doesn't even need to be 3d. it can be pretty flat, maybe even a skybox. that means you can just paint it or prerender it to a texture. you wouldn't need realtime polygons to represent it. nobody would know it's not 3d coz nobody could rotate it by going around it.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1682309:date=Jul 1 2008, 03:11 PM:name=ViPr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ViPr @ Jul 1 2008, 03:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682309"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if all that stuff outside the window is far away and you can only view it through that window then you can only see it from pretty much 1 angle which means it doesn't even need to be 3d. it can be pretty flat, maybe even a skybox. that means you can just paint it or prerender it to a texture. you wouldn't need realtime polygons to represent it. nobody would know it's not 3d coz nobody could rotate it by going around it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    True, but by rendering in 3D they do slightly rotate in your vision. So, that giant hit to performance adds a subtle but definite immersion factor. Plus, if you can see it from a variety of windows in different spots, the rotation might be more noticeable. Plus, the idea there are other buildings close by helps give the map a feeling of being part of something bigger. Similar to what they did in Republic Commando where you play a small part in the giant battle raging all around you.
  • asmodeeasmodee Join Date: 2007-06-20 Member: 61317Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1682335:date=Jul 1 2008, 01:47 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(spellman23 @ Jul 1 2008, 01:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682335"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->True, but by rendering in 3D they do slightly rotate in your vision. So, that giant hit to performance adds a subtle but definite immersion factor. Plus, if you can see it from a variety of windows in different spots, the rotation might be more noticeable. Plus, the idea there are other buildings close by helps give the map a feeling of being part of something bigger. Similar to what they did in Republic Commando where you play a small part in the giant battle raging all around you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Distant objects can be low polycount models and low resolution textures, animation can also be simplified. Therefore the performance hit is much less than you may initially expect. I think things like that would be more suited to a single player game. In a multiplayer it may be confusing to people not familiar with what it is and it's unnecessarily distracting.

    Art is good, but moving/animated stuff out of the corner of your eye might make you jerk your aim over in that direction, or otherwise interfere with your gaming. Remember -- NS is serious business.
  • aznpride3214aznpride3214 Join Date: 2008-04-26 Member: 64162Members
    WoW this looks Great! but could u guys try makn an outside map just 2 mix things up and see if it works out good.
  • ljcrabsljcrabs Join Date: 2007-11-15 Member: 62924Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1682065:date=Jun 27 2008, 02:18 PM:name=invader Zim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(invader Zim @ Jun 27 2008, 02:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682065"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->did anyone ever play a CS (originial hl1 CS) map call de_747, note this is a custome de map not the cs-747 hostage rescue map.

    anyway it was a bombing map on a flying 747 which was supposed to be airforce 1 or something similar. Twas an ok map but the really call thing was you could shoot out the doors of the plain and watch other players get sucked out of them. Supposing some maps had airlocks or destructable surfaces that could be opened and players get sucked out and die?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Or they could go the Total Recall route and make the marines eyes pop out 8O that would be cool too.
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