The No Team-switch Thing Seems A Little Silly

MausMaus Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5599Members
IRC chat my clan had after 1.03 came out:

(20:41) <@Maus][> that team switch business is utter BS
(20:41) <@Maus][> all it takes it for one person to leave for any reason, and the game will be unbalanced until the end
(20:41) <@Nerd`> i know i'll be sitting in rr till a space opens so i can join clanmates
(20:41) <AlbinoSqrl> means no one can switch and help an unbalanced team :|
(20:41) <@Maus][> Let's play a game of "spot the feature to be removed in 1.04"
(20:41) <AlbinoSqrl> not that people usually did anyways, but heh
(20:41) <@Nerd`> doesn't fix the problem, just adds to it and puts in massive tedium

Really, were there so many llamas using team switching to locate the hive to make this worth implementing? I'd have thought many many more people would use it to keep the teams even.


(apart from that, 1.03 seems to have fixed a lot of annoying little bugs, so well done Flayra)

Comments

  • TyphonTyphon Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 1899Members
    edited November 2002
    It might be a little weird. Basically, the only way to rebalance teams if a few people leave is by NEW players joining the server. Try it out for a while before passing judgement.
  • AaronAaron vroom vroom der party startah Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7020Members
    Yeah we gotta see how this plays out. But it is definately cool to set "controversial" options as server config variables. I'm not sure how difficult that is though <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • bigjanginbigjangin Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2090Members
    i can't really see why they added this feature. It is annoying as hell. You can't even switch teams to try and balance them out. Its not really that hard to find out where the hive is by asking your commander or scouting the map. This new "feature" is very frustrating and makes me not want to play until the next patch comes out and removes it.
  • SycophantSycophant Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7092Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(20:41) <@Maus][> that team switch business is utter BS
    (20:41) <@Maus][> <b>all it takes it for one person to leave for any reason, and the game will be unbalanced until the end</b>
    (20:41) <@Nerd`> i know i'll be sitting in rr till a space opens so i can join clanmates
    (20:41) <AlbinoSqrl> <b>means no one can switch and help an unbalanced team :|</b>
    (20:41) <@Maus][> Let's play a game of "spot the feature to be removed in 1.04"
    (20:41) <AlbinoSqrl> not that people usually did anyways, but heh
    (20:41) <@Nerd`> doesn't fix the problem, just adds to it and puts in massive tedium
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <i>(I've bolded the lines I want to reference in my reply)</i>

    First of all, if one person leaves, the game won't necessarily be unbalanced. Let's say there's a 7v7 going on, and someone leaves the alien side, making it 7v6. If someone else joins the server, they either have to play alien to keep the balance or wait for the next game.

    Once more and more people start leaving that team, <i>then</i> it starts getting unbalanced.

    This basically seems to go hand-in-hand with one of the other additions with v1.03:
    If a team has 5 or more players then another team, the team automatically wins.

    If people begin leaving one team, the game starts becoming more and more unbalanced. As people join, they have to join the 'weaker' team. If nobody joins, then once there's a rediculous unbalancing due to players leaving, the game ends.

    As for not being able to switch and help an unbalanced team, it won't stay unbalanced for long if you're on a busy/popular server. I've played in games where I'd start with 6 or 7 other people on my team, and some of them would gradually leave thoughout the game. There was always someone in to take their slot within a few minutes.

    The team-balancing changes are very well thought out. It's lenient enough to still give the players some choice in their teams if the teams are balanced, but strict enough to prevent it from getting out of hand.

    Good job, devs! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • MausMaus Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5599Members
    OK. I didn't think it through that well. I guess I just don't like that I won't be able to switch to join clanmates on publics. I'm petty like that. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • bigjanginbigjangin Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2090Members
    what if you get tired of playing marines and you want to switch to aliens? Even if the teams would be balanced, you cant do it. You have to reconnect to the server. If they wanted to fix an exploit, make it so you cant switch teams for the first 5 minutes or so, but not the whole game.
  • NimbusNimbus Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7239Members
    All this "feature" does is discourage people to balance the teams. If someone REALLY wanted to join the other team he or she could simply type retry in console and join that team.
  • MisfireMisfire Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5764Members
    i was playing on a server and the ready room was packed with people, they say they were locked out. They could not join either teams so the game went on 5v1 for the whole game..........

    i was on marines then i decided to join aliens but i could not. Then i tried to go back to marines., locked out <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->.
  • MisfireMisfire Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5764Members
    after the game ends, can u still join opposing teams?
  • TrenchRatTrenchRat Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8301Members
    It says in the feature list that this is included to prevent a bug with finding hives.

    This makes no frigging sense, as a marine commander can hear a beating hive, and find it farily easily himself.

    Lame, but the mod is fantastic, so I shan't complain too much.
  • NoYesNoYes Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9266Members
    In reply to Souris...that is a pretty lame clan to unbalance the teams by all joining the same team.


    I also think that addition is stupid. It is easier for the comm to just use sound to find the enemy hive than have someone join ob or alien and rejoin marine. And if you wanted to do that, you could just join the ohter team than /retry....so yeah this seems like a rly dumb change to me.
  • MausMaus Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5599Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--NoYes+Nov 27 2002, 08:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NoYes @ Nov 27 2002, 08:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In reply to Souris...that is a pretty lame clan to unbalance the teams by all joining the same team.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Pfft. We don't. We join the team with the fewest players, which results in us being split up across both teams. So when a slot opens up which wouldn't unbalance the teams, we'll switch so we can play together.

    re: typing retry - That's no good on UK servers (don't know about elsewhere) because they're all so full there are queues of people waiting to join, and invariably your space will have been filled inbetween typing retry and being accepted by the server.
  • BathroomMonkeyBathroomMonkey Feces-hurling Monkey Boy Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 78Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    It's not just finding the <i>first</i> hive, in my opinion-- there are numerous dangers in allowing uncontrolled team switching. Depending on where you are in the game, a player knows his team's resources, general strategies, weak points, and tech levels, among other things. Also, there's the problem with players switching teams, booting the commander, and recycling all the buildings (though, I haven't seen this in a bit-- it may have been fixed independently, and I just haven't been paying attention).

    There aren't simple, black and white fixes to these issues that make things fair all around. Sometimes you just have to aim for the lesser of several evils. And remember, the game is still extremely young, and it's being tweaked. Something that ends up being disastrous for play probably won't survive a new patch.
  • MausMaus Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5599Members
    Aye BM, but this is something that could easily be abused in DoD to learn sniper/MG positions, but the DoD team has never tried to enforce anyhting like this. I know that an idiot could concievably do more harm in NS by abusing it, but it does seem a little harsh.

    Times when I've switched mid-game I've gone out of my way to not abuse any knowledge I have of the enemy. Heck, I even role-play ignorance of enemy positions sometimes if it would be unfair for me not to.
  • BathroomMonkeyBathroomMonkey Feces-hurling Monkey Boy Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 78Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    True, it may seem harsh now, and time may show it to be just that-- but maybe by then, another option or a tweak becomes apparent and we can adjust it into something that comes closer to achieving the goal <i>without</i> being too constricting or unfair.

    Again, it's a very young game, so right now, it's about patience-- and having faith that every adjustment Flay makes is an attempt to better the game. Bad things will be made good, and that almost always involves some trial and error.
  • AcKzAcKz Join Date: 2002-11-27 Member: 10079Banned
    Yea, that does get kinda annoying...
  • bitninebitnine Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9283Members
    As it is, I think it's sort of slipshod. Right now someone who really wants to use spec to scout the enemy team can reconnect. People who casually switch teams usually are interested in balancing them.

    Either it should keep a record of wonids on each team and stop a reconnect from allowing someone to switch teams, or it shouldn't limit it as such.
  • FoggyFoggy Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9620Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Fopher+Nov 27 2002, 11:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fopher @ Nov 27 2002, 11:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and going to each hive location and just listening for that steady "slurp slurp".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's more of a "ploich ploich", except wetter sounding.

    And I'd call it an exploit, except it's not that bad as exploits go.. *coughgoingoutsideonheracough*
  • DaphistoDaphisto Hive Janitor Join Date: 2002-11-16 Member: 8917Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin--Souris+Nov 27 2002, 02:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Souris @ Nov 27 2002, 02:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Really, were there so many llamas using team switching to locate the hive to make this worth implementing? I'd have thought many many more people would use it to keep the teams even.


    (apart from that, 1.03 seems to have fixed a lot of annoying little bugs, so well done Flayra)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    For some reason, the dev team seems to have gone paranoid with cheating and are consequently ruining an otherwise great game by "fixing" it. w00t.
  • bitninebitnine Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9283Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Foggy+Nov 27 2002, 06:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Foggy @ Nov 27 2002, 06:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And I'd call it an exploit, except it's not that bad as exploits go.. *coughgoingoutsideonheracough*<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You know, it's not just hera. You can do that on nancy, too. Boo! Hiss!
  • Evil_TimmyEvil_Timmy Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2350Members
    Haven't had the chance to play on a 1.03 server yet; does the same thing apply to people who are observing a match? They could pretty quickly identify weak points on both sides and give the commander/alien friends excellent strategic advice based on what they've seen of both teams, like where to expand, where an unguarded hive/hive location/resource tower is, whatever.
  • bitninebitnine Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9283Members
    Yup. You join spec, you can't join ANY team that game. I found that out the hard way on a beta server before this feature was announced.
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