<!--quoteo(post=1630636:date=Jun 1 2007, 07:23 PM:name=Church)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Church @ Jun 1 2007, 07:23 PM) [snapback]1630636[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Nodes are more precious than ANYTHING else for aliens. They will drop everything to defend their nodes. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Pub gorges never drop everything. They are FAR too busy sitting around and waiting for a marine to attack their useless OC walls.
<!--quoteo(post=1630636:date=Jun 1 2007, 08:23 PM:name=Church)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Church @ Jun 1 2007, 08:23 PM) [snapback]1630636[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I've won with zero spawn pressure before. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I've won with 0 pressure on nodes before, so where does that leave us?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's just not worth it when there is a 3 second spawn invulnerability on many servers. If you can't spawn camp, ther eis no point in pressuring spawn.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->you dont have to camp inside of their spawn... you can wait outside of spawn just far enough so their spawn invulnerability wears off. Plus, when harassing marine spawn, what is the FIRST thing marines do upon spawning? Run to the armory to hump it dry of ammo. then guess what happens? their spawn protection wears off and they are a tasty target.
<!--quoteo(post=1630654:date=Jun 1 2007, 09:05 PM:name=SnipeStar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SnipeStar @ Jun 1 2007, 09:05 PM) [snapback]1630654[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I've won with 0 pressure on nodes before, so where does that leave us?
you dont have to camp inside of their spawn... you can wait outside of spawn just far enough so their spawn invulnerability wears off. Plus, when harassing marine spawn, what is the FIRST thing marines do upon spawning? Run to the armory to hump it dry of ammo. then guess what happens? their spawn protection wears off and they are a tasty target. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ya, chances are when you play the game against utter morons you're going to win irrelevant of how non-ideal your strategies are.
<!--quoteo(post=1630660:date=Jun 1 2007, 10:53 PM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjosan @ Jun 1 2007, 10:53 PM) [snapback]1630660[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Oh my god, you are useu¨less aretn you- stop tlakting, please.
[edoyt]no sorry thats not fair, youre making a decent attempt at understanding ns I shouldnt interefere. ignore me. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lock down third hive and double*, drop 2 arms labs at 10 minute mark, drop proto, get heavy and jetpacks, and slowly but surely get through all the ocs dropped by the aliens. The game will be an epic 1 hr game like 1.04ever.
*Strat best works in veil and tanith and any other map with double res.
Dude you just insulted me on teh ns forums <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> My feeling hurt <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
The reason I lock down double on tanith is because it is so far away from marine start and so hard to hold and defend without turrets.
Aliens can bile from sat comm vent and the vent above double and the turrets and 3 marines welding them nonstop stop that till i can get proto
We're so cool, we fight on the internet. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1630692:date=Jun 2 2007, 05:11 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Jun 2 2007, 05:11 AM) [snapback]1630692[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Ya, chances are when you play the game against utter morons you're going to win irrelevant of how non-ideal your strategies are. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->non-ideal or not, why is there a problem with it if it works for me? just because a tactic doesnt work for YOU doesnt mean that it is a horrible way to play the game- perhaps you need to expand your playing field. dont be so close minded...
i am not trying to advocate that spawn pressure is more important than node pressure; again, for the 3rd time, i am saying that you need to balance both. although it is possible that you could pressure one over the other and still win, its not as probable as if you strike both. why attack 1 target, when you can attack 2?....... it doesnt make any sense.
<!--quoteo(post=1630660:date=Jun 1 2007, 10:53 PM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjosan @ Jun 1 2007, 10:53 PM) [snapback]1630660[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Oh my god, you are useu¨less aretn you- stop tlakting, please.
[edoyt]no sorry thats not fair, youre making a decent attempt at understanding ns I shouldnt interefere. ignore me. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->wow.. just.. yes, i am clearly the one who needs to shut up- because i am the incoherent idiot with nothing to contribute.
oh and dont you worry, you have been ignored long before this.
Snipestar, tactics and strategy aren't a matters of opinion. It doesn't "work for you" but not "for me", it just doesn't work against good players playing the game well, period. Everyone doesn't get to figure out their own strategies for the game and have them apply on equal ground with everyone else's strategies.
I'm not so deluded to believe that I have somehow found the best possible strategy for the game and every one who disagrees is just wrong. While I've been playing NS a long time, even I'm not flawless, there are lots of better players, there are some less skilled players who play a smarter game then I do, and there are some more skilled players who play a dumber game then I do. That being said, you won't find a single expert player in this game agreeing with you that you're going to do well with 0 pressure on enemy nodes, and you'll be hard pressed to find a player that agrees that spawn camping is sitting outside of the base and not sitting in the base killing people the moment they spawn.
If you're stating that those things are true, then I question the level of experience you have with the game, and I HIGHLY question your level of understanding of the game. I've seen the best players in the game prove your points wrong over and over again.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1630906:date=Jun 3 2007, 04:52 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Jun 3 2007, 04:52 AM) [snapback]1630906[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Snipestar, tactics and strategy aren't a matters of opinion. It doesn't "work for you" but not "for me", it just doesn't work against good players playing the game well, period. Everyone doesn't get to figure out their own strategies for the game and have them apply on equal ground with everyone else's strategies.
I'm not so deluded to believe that I have somehow found the best possible strategy for the game and every one who disagrees is just wrong. While I've been playing NS a long time, even I'm not flawless, there are lots of better players, there are some less skilled players who play a smarter game then I do, and there are some more skilled players who play a dumber game then I do. That being said, you won't find a single expert player in this game agreeing with you that you're going to do well with 0 pressure on enemy nodes, and you'll be hard pressed to find a player that agrees that spawn camping is sitting outside of the base and not sitting in the base killing people the moment they spawn.
If you're stating that those things are true, then I question the level of experience you have with the game, and I HIGHLY question your level of understanding of the game. I've seen the best players in the game prove your points wrong over and over again. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you.
A good commander will push down enemy nodes, build his own nodes, tech, deny aliens tech, and spawncamp them/hem them into the hive at the same time. There is no "this or that." it's all or nothing. Any possible strategy that relies on one thing alone is bound to fail unless every condition for that strategy exists, which is almost never. Winning a game with a gorge rush because the marine commander decides that his cap nodes and turret farm double strat is better than beaconing, dropping shotguns and pushing the gorges before they drop OCs says absolutely NOTHING about how good a gorge rush is. It simply says how awful the marine commander is. Same for winning with no node pressure, etc; it simply means the other team was just that bad, it makes no statement on how good your strategy is. The first sentence of this paragraph is how every commander should try to run a game, it will very.....very rarely fail when executed correctly, because it matches one person's ability to coordinate the entire team and multi-task against the alien's ability to recognize what's going on and counter it. There are plenty of ways to win as commander, but the basic tenets of the game are always going to be the same: kill nodes, build nodes, tech, deny enemy tech, control the map.
<!--quoteo(post=1630906:date=Jun 3 2007, 04:52 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Jun 3 2007, 04:52 AM) [snapback]1630906[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Snipestar, tactics and strategy aren't a matters of opinion. It doesn't "work for you" but not "for me", it just doesn't work against good players playing the game well, period. Everyone doesn't get to figure out their own strategies for the game and have them apply on equal ground with everyone else's strategies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> that is the biggest joke ever. so that is saying there is a black and white way to win the game. this method will win you the game, but this one will not ever work. this implies that all players are on equal levels of tactics and skills. this is also very far from reality.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That being said, you won't find a single expert player in this game agreeing with you that you're going to do well with 0 pressure on enemy nodes, and you'll be hard pressed to find a player that agrees that spawn camping is sitting outside of the base and not sitting in the base killing people the moment they spawn.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> omg the reading comprehension here is impeccable. seriously, i feel people read only part of my posts. again, for the 10833847th time, i am not advocating black and white, or that it has to be either spawn pressure <b>OR</b> node pressure. you cant possibly win the game going one side unless you are playing against mentally deficient people. I am strictly saying that you need to balance <b>both</b> pressure on spawn <b>AND</b> nodes as the most efficient strategy. Carefully read through my posts, and point out to me where i specifically stated that you have pressure just the spawn alone, or vice versa....
on another point, what is the difference between killing the people as soon as they spawn (of course with the spawn invuln. plugin this is a hopeless strategy) and waiting outside of their spawn to kill them? The fundamental importance of this is that they cannot freely roam the map! whether you sit in their spawn and kill them, kill them just outside of their spawn, the point is that they cannot go build nodes, repair/replace nodes that are damaged/destroyed, and destroy your team's nodes. isnt this just as important as the "node pressure" you are emphasizing so hard? if you leave them alone at spawn, they are free to roam the map, and as you hit their nodes, they can hit yours. you build one, they can build one. there is virtually no ground gained, and this painfully prolongs games that shouldnt be half as long as they are. the only thing that breaks this stalemate is difference in player skills. if the game is played with better tactics, then player skill plays a much less important role, as "pubstars" are less effective against good gameplay strategies.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're stating that those things are true, then I question the level of experience you have with the game, and I HIGHLY question your level of understanding of the game. I've seen the best players in the game prove your points wrong over and over again. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> so you think youve seen the best players in the game?? how vaguely hilarious. youve seen the best players in the game- compared to who exactly? you? me? is there an absolute ranking system that im unaware of?
again, you are basing all of this on statements you are claiming i made that are completely wrong. with such poor reading comprehension skills, perhaps we should question YOUR experience, and YOUR understanding of the game.
i am not claiming to be great at the game but like i have mentioned i have been playing this game since its release, so i do somewhat know what the hell im talking about. Im not some ###### who has been playing the game for 3 months who thinks he knows everything- i am talking from the point of view of someone who has spent a considerable amount of time playing the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1630927:date=Jun 3 2007, 10:25 AM:name=TheAdj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TheAdj @ Jun 3 2007, 10:25 AM) [snapback]1630927[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> There is no "this or that." <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it's all or nothing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> does anyone else see a glaring contradiction with this statement?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Any possible strategy that relies on one thing alone is bound to fail unless every condition for that strategy exists, which is almost never.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->this is exactly what i have been trying to spell out for you for the last 5 posts here........
my general point is this. you need players to focus on nodes, and at the same time you need players to focus on the other team. ideally, you want to restrict their ability to move about the map. Now keeping an entire team boxed inside of spawn for long lengths of time is fairly improbable, and henceforth any enemies that get out of spawn need to be taken care of with a fair amount of importance-- but you also need to try to keep spawn pressured to help prevent more from getting out to inhibit your team's cause.
Fair enough, I misread the meaning behind your posts. I thought you were advocating hovering just outside the alien hive without acctually going in and establishing a spawncamp, and at the same time not bothering to build pressure on any other node in the map. As far as I can tell that strat generally has about a 99% failure rating... I'm not quite sure why you said "it might not work for you, but it works for me", which implies that that could acctually work if the opposing team is competent.
I don't rescind my post on the nature of strategy and tactics though. There ARE ideals, and the better commanders strike more closely to the ideal strategies and tactics then the worse commanders do. It's not just an issue of style at all. This isn't to say that there is one build order that will win the game every time, but it is to say that a smart commander will know what the enemy is doing and counter with the most effective strategy they have available as quickly as possible. Commanding in NS is an RTS game, and in RTS games the players who blend and merge the most efficient builds into new strategies and counters in the most seamless and expert way trump the game. It's not an issue of style at all, it's an issue of skill and expertise.
Sure, there are stylistic things that can make or break a comm. I could be an extremely intelligent comm crafting immaculate counters and build orders, but not be vocal enough to control my team into using the advantage I'm giving them, or I could be the opposite, extremely vocal and opinionated but making really stupid moves. Ultimately there's gonna be another comm out there who will do both better then me without my deficiency, and he will be a better comm then I am. His lack of a weakness isn't a style, it's pure ability.
[edit] I also want to point out that I've seen/known several players who have been playing NS alot longer then I have that know the game alot worse then I do, and I've also seen/known several players who have been playing the game alot shorter then I have who know the game better then I do. Time played doesn't directly correlate with knowledge of gameplay mechanics, and that applies to both total hourage played, and length of the time frame that has passed since discovery of the game. For me NS is easily the game I've put the most gaming hourage into in my gaming career. I'm sure I clock WELL WELL over a thousand ingame hours in NS. I used to play this game 12 hours a day during the summer for weeks on end <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />. I still play at least 10 hours a week.
Alot of people make the mistake of assuming that NS i salot more dynamic than it really is. Sorry to say but the game is pretty black and white. Kill nodes, kill players, kill hive. No matter what inane strategy you com up with that involves electrification or turrets or "strategically placed" ocs, etc, its all going to boil down to those 3 objectives.
Duh. Every game has basic goals and victory conditions.
The awesome part is how you pull it off.
It's like saying StarCraft is only mine, build, tech, destroy opponent. However, even watching pro players, it's amazing some of the crazy tactics and twists that the players come up with. Also, each have a distinct style on how they go about those same basic goals, making different matches....well.... different.
<!--quoteo(post=1630761:date=Jun 2 2007, 10:48 AM:name=Hassaan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hassaan @ Jun 2 2007, 10:48 AM) [snapback]1630761[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Dude you just insulted me on teh ns forums <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> My feeling hurt <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> dude i recognized your nickname i was just trying to play along and be internet funny too
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->wow.. just.. yes, i am clearly the one who needs to shut up- because i am the incoherent idiot with nothing to contribute.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> dead on spot. couldnt have said it better myself... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> im glad youve finally come to an understanding with the facts, now could you please learn to play the game (after 3 or 4 years of trying?) <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->oh and dont you worry, you have been ignored long before this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> maybe your over-sensitiviness is the reason youre so slow to learn
<!--quoteo(post=1631012:date=Jun 3 2007, 04:54 PM:name=SnipeStar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SnipeStar @ Jun 3 2007, 04:54 PM) [snapback]1631012[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> my general point is this. you need players to focus on nodes, and at the same time you need players to focus on the other team. ideally, you want to restrict their ability to move about the map. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> no
everyone focuses on both nodes and the other team all the time there is no this or that. get it already.
<!--quoteo(post=1631219:date=Jun 4 2007, 02:45 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(spellman23 @ Jun 4 2007, 02:45 PM) [snapback]1631219[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Duh. Every game has basic goals and victory conditions.
The awesome part is how you pull it off.
It's like saying StarCraft is only mine, build, tech, destroy opponent. However, even watching pro players, it's amazing some of the crazy tactics and twists that the players come up with. Also, each have a distinct style on how they go about those same basic goals, making different matches....well.... different. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you watch starcraft and see immense amounts of dynamic and crazy twists and tactics you aren't really seeing the game very well... Starcraft players squeeze ridiculous efficiency out of ever unit and build via extremely well calculated timing and placement. Starcraft is one of the most competitively sound games on earth and it layers and layers and layers of strategic ideal hitting before the smallest amount of strategic variation. I always amazes me watching starcraft games and seeing the commentators freak out "OMG, HE BUILT 7 CORSAIR INSTEAD OF 3 CORSAIR, WHAT A MASSIVELY OFFENSIVE STRATEGY! CAN HE REALLY EXPECT TO PULL OFF THIS WIN?"... Only the slightest deviation has taken place from the calculated ideals, but it's a very well calculated and approached risk.
The amount of ideal deviation in NS is much much much smaller then it is in starcraft. And very few NS players have even worked up to the point where they have a good understanding and are able to accurately represent the optimum build's to begin with.
<!--quoteo(post=1631292:date=Jun 4 2007, 08:37 PM:name=TOmekki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TOmekki @ Jun 4 2007, 08:37 PM) [snapback]1631292[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> dead on spot. couldnt have said it better myself... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> im glad youve finally come to an understanding with the facts, now could you please learn to play the game (after 3 or 4 years of trying?) <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> ... maybe your over-sensitiviness is the reason youre so slow to learn ... no
everyone focuses on both nodes and the other team all the time there is no this or that. get it already. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->you just said no, and then agreed with exactly what i said.....
<!--quoteo(post=1631319:date=Jun 4 2007, 08:54 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Jun 4 2007, 08:54 PM) [snapback]1631319[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If you watch starcraft and see immense amounts of dynamic and crazy twists and tactics you aren't really seeing the game very well... Starcraft players squeeze ridiculous efficiency out of ever unit and build via extremely well calculated timing and placement. Starcraft is one of the most competitively sound games on earth and it layers and layers and layers of strategic ideal hitting before the smallest amount of strategic variation. I always amazes me watching starcraft games and seeing the commentators freak out "OMG, HE BUILT 7 CORSAIR INSTEAD OF 3 CORSAIR, WHAT A MASSIVELY OFFENSIVE STRATEGY! CAN HE REALLY EXPECT TO PULL OFF THIS WIN?"... Only the slightest deviation has taken place from the calculated ideals, but it's a very well calculated and approached risk.
The amount of ideal deviation in NS is much much much smaller then it is in starcraft. And very few NS players have even worked up to the point where they have a good understanding and are able to accurately represent the optimum build's to begin with. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I always amazes me too. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Starcraft vids are fun to watch because it's so hard when I play it. It's just like whoa.
But what I'm getting into is... Street Fighter. It's amazing how those people pull off those dozen hit combos. Then when you try to do it on your pad, you can't even do a sonic boom.
But I'd rather have the smarter player win than the player who has faster fingers. Did you win because your strategy was better? Or was it because you did the same thing as your opponent better?
<!--quoteo(post=1631569:date=Jun 5 2007, 06:50 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Jun 5 2007, 06:50 PM) [snapback]1631569[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I always amazes me too. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Starcraft vids are fun to watch because it's so hard when I play it. It's just like whoa.
But what I'm getting into is... Street Fighter. It's amazing how those people pull off those dozen hit combos. Then when you try to do it on your pad, you can't even do a sonic boom.
But I'd rather have the smarter player win than the player who has faster fingers. Did you win because your strategy was better? Or was it because you did the same thing as your opponent better? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really? If the smarter player was really that much smarter, then they would learn how to beat a player who has faster fingers. I'd think you'd want the player who was better at the game to win. In some games, fast fingers give an insane advantage.
<!--quoteo(post=1631671:date=Jun 6 2007, 06:19 AM:name=Hassaan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hassaan @ Jun 6 2007, 06:19 AM) [snapback]1631671[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You play the games with the keyboard and mouse aka the fingers OMG, the biggest strategists need to have fast fingers to win too!!!
Who wants to play chess with me, I'll boom headshot your king <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry but online chess is just retarded, because 80% of all players dont play themselves. Instead they let a chess software like fritz make their moves. Its really sad.
Ontopic:
Regarding winning with 0 node pressure.
Yeah, I have done it before, by walking into the hive and making sure that all aliens stay into the que until they f4. SG rush can also be won without 0 node pressure. Most siege maps are won without 0 node pressure and even 0 spawn pressure. You can also win with 0 node pressure when aliens dont place nodes <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" />
But when you compare how much stock NS map games you have won with 0 node pressure to the games you have won without 0 spawn pressure you might notice a big difference.
Thus said: If you dont pressure nodes against an equally skilled/unskilled team and dont rush, then your chances of winning are pretty off.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
hit spawn or rt... most know I wrote a comm guide once, and for the ones who understood the deeper part of my comments might know why I again answer this topics question with this:
You must do the most amount of usefull actions in the least amount of time while forcing the other team to do the least amount of usefull actions in the most amount of time.
<!--quoteo(post=1631727:date=Jun 6 2007, 05:17 AM:name=DC_Darkling)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DC_Darkling @ Jun 6 2007, 05:17 AM) [snapback]1631727[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> hit spawn or rt... most know I wrote a comm guide once, and for the ones who understood the deeper part of my comments might know why I again answer this topics question with this:
You must do the most amount of usefull actions in the least amount of time while forcing the other team to do the least amount of usefull actions in the most amount of time.
Pull that off and you won <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> IE be as intelligently offensive as possible at all times. In NS, the best defense is a good offense, not turrets.
<!--quoteo(post=1629306:date=May 26 2007, 12:23 AM:name=the_x5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_x5 @ May 26 2007, 12:23 AM) [snapback]1629306[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Good points. Ok, so what are the indicators of the game's progress that players should look for. Scenerios? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think when they are outside the hive it is a good time to hit the aa
base rushs arent as important as hitting nodes unless they are leaving the base wide open or have an aa/proto, the way i see it, a node is 15 res, an obs or anything like that is only 10, (granted they lose functions of the structures) You can count on what ever gets taken out to be built back asap, it might take a while to get an aa back up
if you take out the nodes the armory, obs, proto whatever else are going to be worthless without the res to upgrade
<!--quoteo(post=1631835:date=Jun 6 2007, 11:27 AM:name=SecretAgentMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SecretAgentMan @ Jun 6 2007, 11:27 AM) [snapback]1631835[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I think when they are outside the hive it is a good time to hit the aa <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Either that or the arms lab. If you are trying to force a beacon so that you can rush the PG location outside your hive, you wanna hit AA. If you are trying to fight the marines toe to toe, you want to hit the arms lab so they lose all their ups mid battle.
<!--quoteo(post=1631569:date=Jun 5 2007, 06:50 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Jun 5 2007, 06:50 PM) [snapback]1631569[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I always amazes me too. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Starcraft vids are fun to watch because it's so hard when I play it. It's just like whoa.
But what I'm getting into is... Street Fighter. It's amazing how those people pull off those dozen hit combos. Then when you try to do it on your pad, you can't even do a sonic boom.
But I'd rather have the smarter player win than the player who has faster fingers. Did you win because your strategy was better? Or was it because you did the same thing as your opponent better? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It would only be "the same thing" if its a mirror match. I would have to say that the player that can execute faster is probably the better player.
ChocolateThe Team MascotJoin Date: 2006-10-31Member: 58123Members
edited June 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1631842:date=Jun 6 2007, 12:15 PM:name=KainTSA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KainTSA @ Jun 6 2007, 12:15 PM) [snapback]1631842[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Either that or the arms lab. If you are trying to force a beacon so that you can rush the PG location outside your hive, you wanna hit AA. If you are trying to fight the marines toe to toe, you want to hit the arms lab so they lose all their ups mid battle. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is just an idea, but interesting one non the less.
<i>How about you hit the IP's too? </i>
This might sound like a dumb idea, but there is some rationality behind it. Assuming a average commander, they wont have the IP's hotkeyed. That makes the only notification be an easily ignored "base is under attack" message. Assuming that they have 2 IP's, you could most likely kill one before you die. This cuts their spawn cue in half, and replacing that takes time away from the comm, who is usually busy dropping supplies.
Also, I'm assuming the comm will see an IP under attack as less of a threat than an armory under attack, because of the relative importance of each structure. The comm will think the alien hitting the IP's is a nub, and pay less attention to him. This could mean the difference between a beacon and no beacon, ultimately deciding how much damage you do to the base in general.
Also, if you manage to get all the IP's down (or even down to 1 IP), you will have those marines in the front lines drop like flies without reinforcements or be forced to return to base. This can buy you ALOT of precious time, especially in the heat of battle. Even if they beacon, thats 15 resources out of their pockets along with the 20 res per IP and the time required to rebuild the building.
You might argue that this is a dumb idea, and probably is, but its material out there for expansion on. I realize that in most circumstances, a instant beacon would be 10x times better than a dead IP and a dead armory is 1000x better than a dead IP, but a dead IP would mean a longer spawn for the marines over time if not replaced. It would also be great I would highly unrecommended it as a hard and fast rule, but it still is a nice alternative.
Also realize that if the marines don't go down relatively quickly when destroying the IP's, it wouldn't make much difference to destroy the AA or the IP's, only perhaps the arms lab, but your still losing pretty bad.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->*Leave the moderation to the moderators, please. -aero*<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Comments
Nodes are more precious than ANYTHING else for aliens. They will drop everything to defend their nodes.
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Pub gorges never drop everything. They are FAR too busy sitting around and waiting for a marine to attack their useless OC walls.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's just not worth it when there is a 3 second spawn invulnerability on many servers. If you can't spawn camp, ther eis no point in pressuring spawn.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->you dont have to camp inside of their spawn... you can wait outside of spawn just far enough so their spawn invulnerability wears off. Plus, when harassing marine spawn, what is the FIRST thing marines do upon spawning? Run to the armory to hump it dry of ammo. then guess what happens? their spawn protection wears off and they are a tasty target.
[edoyt]no sorry thats not fair, youre making a decent attempt at understanding ns I shouldnt interefere. ignore me.
I've won with 0 pressure on nodes before, so where does that leave us?
you dont have to camp inside of their spawn... you can wait outside of spawn just far enough so their spawn invulnerability wears off. Plus, when harassing marine spawn, what is the FIRST thing marines do upon spawning? Run to the armory to hump it dry of ammo. then guess what happens? their spawn protection wears off and they are a tasty target.
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Ya, chances are when you play the game against utter morons you're going to win irrelevant of how non-ideal your strategies are.
Oh my god, you are useu¨less aretn you- stop tlakting, please.
[edoyt]no sorry thats not fair, youre making a decent attempt at understanding ns I shouldnt interefere. ignore me.
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drink much, tjo?
Lock down third hive and double*, drop 2 arms labs at 10 minute mark, drop proto, get heavy and jetpacks, and slowly but surely get through all the ocs dropped by the aliens. The game will be an epic 1 hr game like 1.04ever.
*Strat best works in veil and tanith and any other map with double res.
actually, no. if youre so incompetent that you cant play this game after three or four years of trying, just quit. seriously.
The reason I lock down double on tanith is because it is so far away from marine start and so hard to hold and defend without turrets.
Aliens can bile from sat comm vent and the vent above double and the turrets and 3 marines welding them nonstop stop that till i can get proto
Ya, chances are when you play the game against utter morons you're going to win irrelevant of how non-ideal your strategies are. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->non-ideal or not, why is there a problem with it if it works for me? just because a tactic doesnt work for YOU doesnt mean that it is a horrible way to play the game- perhaps you need to expand your playing field. dont be so close minded...
i am not trying to advocate that spawn pressure is more important than node pressure; again, for the 3rd time, i am saying that you need to balance both. although it is possible that you could pressure one over the other and still win, its not as probable as if you strike both. why attack 1 target, when you can attack 2?....... it doesnt make any sense.
<!--quoteo(post=1630660:date=Jun 1 2007, 10:53 PM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjosan @ Jun 1 2007, 10:53 PM) [snapback]1630660[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Oh my god, you are useu¨less aretn you- stop tlakting, please.
[edoyt]no sorry thats not fair, youre making a decent attempt at understanding ns I shouldnt interefere. ignore me. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->wow.. just.. yes, i am clearly the one who needs to shut up- because i am the incoherent idiot with nothing to contribute.
oh and dont you worry, you have been ignored long before this.
I'm not so deluded to believe that I have somehow found the best possible strategy for the game and every one who disagrees is just wrong. While I've been playing NS a long time, even I'm not flawless, there are lots of better players, there are some less skilled players who play a smarter game then I do, and there are some more skilled players who play a dumber game then I do. That being said, you won't find a single expert player in this game agreeing with you that you're going to do well with 0 pressure on enemy nodes, and you'll be hard pressed to find a player that agrees that spawn camping is sitting outside of the base and not sitting in the base killing people the moment they spawn.
If you're stating that those things are true, then I question the level of experience you have with the game, and I HIGHLY question your level of understanding of the game. I've seen the best players in the game prove your points wrong over and over again.
Snipestar, tactics and strategy aren't a matters of opinion. It doesn't "work for you" but not "for me", it just doesn't work against good players playing the game well, period. Everyone doesn't get to figure out their own strategies for the game and have them apply on equal ground with everyone else's strategies.
I'm not so deluded to believe that I have somehow found the best possible strategy for the game and every one who disagrees is just wrong. While I've been playing NS a long time, even I'm not flawless, there are lots of better players, there are some less skilled players who play a smarter game then I do, and there are some more skilled players who play a dumber game then I do. That being said, you won't find a single expert player in this game agreeing with you that you're going to do well with 0 pressure on enemy nodes, and you'll be hard pressed to find a player that agrees that spawn camping is sitting outside of the base and not sitting in the base killing people the moment they spawn.
If you're stating that those things are true, then I question the level of experience you have with the game, and I HIGHLY question your level of understanding of the game. I've seen the best players in the game prove your points wrong over and over again.
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Thank you.
A good commander will push down enemy nodes, build his own nodes, tech, deny aliens tech, and spawncamp them/hem them into the hive at the same time. There is no "this or that." it's all or nothing. Any possible strategy that relies on one thing alone is bound to fail unless every condition for that strategy exists, which is almost never. Winning a game with a gorge rush because the marine commander decides that his cap nodes and turret farm double strat is better than beaconing, dropping shotguns and pushing the gorges before they drop OCs says absolutely NOTHING about how good a gorge rush is. It simply says how awful the marine commander is. Same for winning with no node pressure, etc; it simply means the other team was just that bad, it makes no statement on how good your strategy is. The first sentence of this paragraph is how every commander should try to run a game, it will very.....very rarely fail when executed correctly, because it matches one person's ability to coordinate the entire team and multi-task against the alien's ability to recognize what's going on and counter it. There are plenty of ways to win as commander, but the basic tenets of the game are always going to be the same: kill nodes, build nodes, tech, deny enemy tech, control the map.
that is the biggest joke ever. so that is saying there is a black and white way to win the game. this method will win you the game, but this one will not ever work. this implies that all players are on equal levels of tactics and skills. this is also very far from reality.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That being said, you won't find a single expert player in this game agreeing with you that you're going to do well with 0 pressure on enemy nodes, and you'll be hard pressed to find a player that agrees that spawn camping is sitting outside of the base and not sitting in the base killing people the moment they spawn.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
omg the reading comprehension here is impeccable. seriously, i feel people read only part of my posts. again, for the 10833847th time, i am not advocating black and white, or that it has to be either spawn pressure <b>OR</b> node pressure. you cant possibly win the game going one side unless you are playing against mentally deficient people. I am strictly saying that you need to balance <b>both</b> pressure on spawn <b>AND</b> nodes as the most efficient strategy. Carefully read through my posts, and point out to me where i specifically stated that you have pressure just the spawn alone, or vice versa....
on another point, what is the difference between killing the people as soon as they spawn (of course with the spawn invuln. plugin this is a hopeless strategy) and waiting outside of their spawn to kill them? The fundamental importance of this is that they cannot freely roam the map! whether you sit in their spawn and kill them, kill them just outside of their spawn, the point is that they cannot go build nodes, repair/replace nodes that are damaged/destroyed, and destroy your team's nodes. isnt this just as important as the "node pressure" you are emphasizing so hard? if you leave them alone at spawn, they are free to roam the map, and as you hit their nodes, they can hit yours. you build one, they can build one. there is virtually no ground gained, and this painfully prolongs games that shouldnt be half as long as they are. the only thing that breaks this stalemate is difference in player skills. if the game is played with better tactics, then player skill plays a much less important role, as "pubstars" are less effective against good gameplay strategies.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're stating that those things are true, then I question the level of experience you have with the game, and I HIGHLY question your level of understanding of the game. I've seen the best players in the game prove your points wrong over and over again. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so you think youve seen the best players in the game?? how vaguely hilarious. youve seen the best players in the game- compared to who exactly? you? me? is there an absolute ranking system that im unaware of?
again, you are basing all of this on statements you are claiming i made that are completely wrong. with such poor reading comprehension skills, perhaps we should question YOUR experience, and YOUR understanding of the game.
i am not claiming to be great at the game but like i have mentioned i have been playing this game since its release, so i do somewhat know what the hell im talking about. Im not some ###### who has been playing the game for 3 months who thinks he knows everything- i am talking from the point of view of someone who has spent a considerable amount of time playing the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1630927:date=Jun 3 2007, 10:25 AM:name=TheAdj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TheAdj @ Jun 3 2007, 10:25 AM) [snapback]1630927[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
There is no "this or that." <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it's all or nothing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
does anyone else see a glaring contradiction with this statement?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Any possible strategy that relies on one thing alone is bound to fail unless every condition for that strategy exists, which is almost never.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->this is exactly what i have been trying to spell out for you for the last 5 posts here........
my general point is this. you need players to focus on nodes, and at the same time you need players to focus on the other team. ideally, you want to restrict their ability to move about the map. Now keeping an entire team boxed inside of spawn for long lengths of time is fairly improbable, and henceforth any enemies that get out of spawn need to be taken care of with a fair amount of importance-- but you also need to try to keep spawn pressured to help prevent more from getting out to inhibit your team's cause.
I don't rescind my post on the nature of strategy and tactics though. There ARE ideals, and the better commanders strike more closely to the ideal strategies and tactics then the worse commanders do. It's not just an issue of style at all. This isn't to say that there is one build order that will win the game every time, but it is to say that a smart commander will know what the enemy is doing and counter with the most effective strategy they have available as quickly as possible. Commanding in NS is an RTS game, and in RTS games the players who blend and merge the most efficient builds into new strategies and counters in the most seamless and expert way trump the game. It's not an issue of style at all, it's an issue of skill and expertise.
Sure, there are stylistic things that can make or break a comm. I could be an extremely intelligent comm crafting immaculate counters and build orders, but not be vocal enough to control my team into using the advantage I'm giving them, or I could be the opposite, extremely vocal and opinionated but making really stupid moves. Ultimately there's gonna be another comm out there who will do both better then me without my deficiency, and he will be a better comm then I am. His lack of a weakness isn't a style, it's pure ability.
[edit] I also want to point out that I've seen/known several players who have been playing NS alot longer then I have that know the game alot worse then I do, and I've also seen/known several players who have been playing the game alot shorter then I have who know the game better then I do. Time played doesn't directly correlate with knowledge of gameplay mechanics, and that applies to both total hourage played, and length of the time frame that has passed since discovery of the game. For me NS is easily the game I've put the most gaming hourage into in my gaming career. I'm sure I clock WELL WELL over a thousand ingame hours in NS. I used to play this game 12 hours a day during the summer for weeks on end <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />. I still play at least 10 hours a week.
The awesome part is how you pull it off.
It's like saying StarCraft is only mine, build, tech, destroy opponent. However, even watching pro players, it's amazing some of the crazy tactics and twists that the players come up with. Also, each have a distinct style on how they go about those same basic goals, making different matches....well.... different.
Dude you just insulted me on teh ns forums <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> My feeling hurt <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
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dude i recognized your nickname i was just trying to play along and be internet funny too
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->wow.. just.. yes, i am clearly the one who needs to shut up- because i am the incoherent idiot with nothing to contribute.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
dead on spot. couldnt have said it better myself... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> im glad youve finally come to an understanding with the facts, now could you please learn to play the game (after 3 or 4 years of trying?) <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->oh and dont you worry, you have been ignored long before this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
maybe your over-sensitiviness is the reason youre so slow to learn
<!--quoteo(post=1631012:date=Jun 3 2007, 04:54 PM:name=SnipeStar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SnipeStar @ Jun 3 2007, 04:54 PM) [snapback]1631012[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
my general point is this. you need players to focus on nodes, and at the same time you need players to focus on the other team. ideally, you want to restrict their ability to move about the map. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no
everyone focuses on both nodes and the other team all the time there is no this or that. get it already.
Duh. Every game has basic goals and victory conditions.
The awesome part is how you pull it off.
It's like saying StarCraft is only mine, build, tech, destroy opponent. However, even watching pro players, it's amazing some of the crazy tactics and twists that the players come up with. Also, each have a distinct style on how they go about those same basic goals, making different matches....well.... different.
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If you watch starcraft and see immense amounts of dynamic and crazy twists and tactics you aren't really seeing the game very well... Starcraft players squeeze ridiculous efficiency out of ever unit and build via extremely well calculated timing and placement. Starcraft is one of the most competitively sound games on earth and it layers and layers and layers of strategic ideal hitting before the smallest amount of strategic variation. I always amazes me watching starcraft games and seeing the commentators freak out "OMG, HE BUILT 7 CORSAIR INSTEAD OF 3 CORSAIR, WHAT A MASSIVELY OFFENSIVE STRATEGY! CAN HE REALLY EXPECT TO PULL OFF THIS WIN?"... Only the slightest deviation has taken place from the calculated ideals, but it's a very well calculated and approached risk.
The amount of ideal deviation in NS is much much much smaller then it is in starcraft. And very few NS players have even worked up to the point where they have a good understanding and are able to accurately represent the optimum build's to begin with.
...
maybe your over-sensitiviness is the reason youre so slow to learn
...
no
everyone focuses on both nodes and the other team all the time there is no this or that. get it already. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->you just said no, and then agreed with exactly what i said.....
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--> *Be nice* -aero <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
If you watch starcraft and see immense amounts of dynamic and crazy twists and tactics you aren't really seeing the game very well... Starcraft players squeeze ridiculous efficiency out of ever unit and build via extremely well calculated timing and placement. Starcraft is one of the most competitively sound games on earth and it layers and layers and layers of strategic ideal hitting before the smallest amount of strategic variation. I always amazes me watching starcraft games and seeing the commentators freak out "OMG, HE BUILT 7 CORSAIR INSTEAD OF 3 CORSAIR, WHAT A MASSIVELY OFFENSIVE STRATEGY! CAN HE REALLY EXPECT TO PULL OFF THIS WIN?"... Only the slightest deviation has taken place from the calculated ideals, but it's a very well calculated and approached risk.
The amount of ideal deviation in NS is much much much smaller then it is in starcraft. And very few NS players have even worked up to the point where they have a good understanding and are able to accurately represent the optimum build's to begin with.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I always amazes me too. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Starcraft vids are fun to watch because it's so hard when I play it. It's just like whoa.
But what I'm getting into is... Street Fighter. It's amazing how those people pull off those dozen hit combos. Then when you try to do it on your pad, you can't even do a sonic boom.
But I'd rather have the smarter player win than the player who has faster fingers. Did you win because your strategy was better? Or was it because you did the same thing as your opponent better?
I always amazes me too. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Starcraft vids are fun to watch because it's so hard when I play it. It's just like whoa.
But what I'm getting into is... Street Fighter. It's amazing how those people pull off those dozen hit combos. Then when you try to do it on your pad, you can't even do a sonic boom.
But I'd rather have the smarter player win than the player who has faster fingers. Did you win because your strategy was better? Or was it because you did the same thing as your opponent better?
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Really? If the smarter player was really that much smarter, then they would learn how to beat a player who has faster fingers. I'd think you'd want the player who was better at the game to win. In some games, fast fingers give an insane advantage.
Who wants to play chess with me, I'll boom headshot your king
You play the games with the keyboard and mouse aka the fingers OMG, the biggest strategists need to have fast fingers to win too!!!
Who wants to play chess with me, I'll boom headshot your king
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Sorry but online chess is just retarded, because 80% of all players dont play themselves. Instead they let a chess software like fritz make their moves. Its really sad.
Ontopic:
Regarding winning with 0 node pressure.
Yeah, I have done it before, by walking into the hive and making sure that all aliens stay into the que until they f4. SG rush can also be won without 0 node pressure. Most siege maps are won without 0 node pressure and even 0 spawn pressure. You can also win with 0 node pressure when aliens dont place nodes <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" />
But when you compare how much stock NS map games you have won with 0 node pressure to the games you have won without 0 spawn pressure you might notice a big difference.
Thus said: If you dont pressure nodes against an equally skilled/unskilled team and dont rush, then your chances of winning are pretty off.
You must do the most amount of usefull actions in the least amount of time while forcing the other team to do the least amount of usefull actions in the most amount of time.
Pull that off and you won
hit spawn or rt... most know I wrote a comm guide once, and for the ones who understood the deeper part of my comments might know why I again answer this topics question with this:
You must do the most amount of usefull actions in the least amount of time while forcing the other team to do the least amount of usefull actions in the most amount of time.
Pull that off and you won
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IE be as intelligently offensive as possible at all times. In NS, the best defense is a good offense, not turrets.
Good points. Ok, so what are the indicators of the game's progress that players should look for. Scenerios?
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I think when they are outside the hive it is a good time to hit the aa
base rushs arent as important as hitting nodes unless they are leaving the base wide open or have an aa/proto, the way i see it, a node is 15 res, an obs or anything like that is only 10, (granted they lose functions of the structures) You can count on what ever gets taken out to be built back asap, it might take a while to get an aa back up
if you take out the nodes the armory, obs, proto whatever else are going to be worthless without the res to upgrade
I think when they are outside the hive it is a good time to hit the aa
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Either that or the arms lab. If you are trying to force a beacon so that you can rush the PG location outside your hive, you wanna hit AA. If you are trying to fight the marines toe to toe, you want to hit the arms lab so they lose all their ups mid battle.
I always amazes me too. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Starcraft vids are fun to watch because it's so hard when I play it. It's just like whoa.
But what I'm getting into is... Street Fighter. It's amazing how those people pull off those dozen hit combos. Then when you try to do it on your pad, you can't even do a sonic boom.
But I'd rather have the smarter player win than the player who has faster fingers. Did you win because your strategy was better? Or was it because you did the same thing as your opponent better?
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It would only be "the same thing" if its a mirror match. I would have to say that the player that can execute faster is probably the better player.
Either that or the arms lab. If you are trying to force a beacon so that you can rush the PG location outside your hive, you wanna hit AA. If you are trying to fight the marines toe to toe, you want to hit the arms lab so they lose all their ups mid battle.
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This is just an idea, but interesting one non the less.
<i>How about you hit the IP's too? </i>
This might sound like a dumb idea, but there is some rationality behind it. Assuming a average commander, they wont have the IP's hotkeyed. That makes the only notification be an easily ignored "base is under attack" message. Assuming that they have 2 IP's, you could most likely kill one before you die. This cuts their spawn cue in half, and replacing that takes time away from the comm, who is usually busy dropping supplies.
Also, I'm assuming the comm will see an IP under attack as less of a threat than an armory under attack, because of the relative importance of each structure. The comm will think the alien hitting the IP's is a nub, and pay less attention to him. This could mean the difference between a beacon and no beacon, ultimately deciding how much damage you do to the base in general.
Also, if you manage to get all the IP's down (or even down to 1 IP), you will have those marines in the front lines drop like flies without reinforcements or be forced to return to base. This can buy you ALOT of precious time, especially in the heat of battle. Even if they beacon, thats 15 resources out of their pockets along with the 20 res per IP and the time required to rebuild the building.
You might argue that this is a dumb idea, and probably is, but its material out there for expansion on. I realize that in most circumstances, a instant beacon would be 10x times better than a dead IP and a dead armory is 1000x better than a dead IP, but a dead IP would mean a longer spawn for the marines over time if not replaced. It would also be great I would highly unrecommended it as a hard and fast rule, but it still is a nice alternative.
Also realize that if the marines don't go down relatively quickly when destroying the IP's, it wouldn't make much difference to destroy the AA or the IP's, only perhaps the arms lab, but your still losing pretty bad.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->*Leave the moderation to the moderators, please. -aero*<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->