Good point Swiftspear. Actually... What exactly <i>is</i> the spawn rate with tthe first hive? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1630502:date=Jun 1 2007, 12:40 AM:name=SecretAgentMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SecretAgentMan @ Jun 1 2007, 12:40 AM) [snapback]1630502[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You think if enough topics show up that something would change.. You never see any post about aliens being overpowered... <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because all the bad players like playing aliens on combat where they can go Level 50 infinite charge xmenu onos and rarely play marines.
<!--quoteo(post=1630502:date=Jun 1 2007, 07:40 AM:name=SecretAgentMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SecretAgentMan @ Jun 1 2007, 07:40 AM) [snapback]1630502[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You think if enough topics show up that something would change.. You never see any post about aliens being overpowered... <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There have been millions of threads of laser guns. Still the idea doesn't deserve a change. I'd be much more willing to agree with the large server balance if there would be someone actually trying to discuss how to change the way of playing instead of changing the game. You're skipping that phase right now.
Oh well... If it matters organized play at mid and low skills has been quite alien biased all the way from 3.1 final. 3.2 finally made it almost balanced. I never complained about the balance because I took my time and gave a thought why good marine teams win and tried to do the same. I'm still not much of a comm or a marine but I enjoy trying to improve and every marine round won and every well played marine round feel nice.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think this is a troll.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I could declare almost every thread here a troll, but that wouldn't be as good time killing as posting properly.
<!--quoteo(post=1630503:date=Jun 1 2007, 02:43 AM:name=the_x5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_x5 @ Jun 1 2007, 02:43 AM) [snapback]1630503[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Good point Swiftspear. Actually... What exactly <i>is</i> the spawn rate with tthe first hive? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> G4B2S uses an algorithm, so the greater the # of players on the server the faster the spawn rate is. I believe it's equal to normal NS at 6v6, and then it gets slightly faster every added player... I'm not sure of the exact figures, I just know that if most of your team is dead it doesn't take 2 minutes to respawn there... and it's also virtually impossible to spawncamp alone.
That one change alone nearly completely balances the alien VS marine W/L. 15v15 is still a very different game, early game aliens get chambers earlier and there are generally some OC's scattered around the map so the aliens are strong in the early game. Also since you have 15 marines upgrades pay themselfs off alot faster then weapons do, so it's less worth it to drop shotguns until you have to for lifeforms.
that being said, the differences make the play experience awesome. It's new, it's fresh. I love playing at g4b2s, sure, it's not TG or Jigglies, but it has it's own style, and that style is acctually really fun. I wouldn't want g4b to split into 2 smaller servers. There are all of what, 2 30 man servers in NS? Leave them alone, not everyone should be little servers rehashing exactly the same play experience 500 times over. Variety is preferable.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
We've already committed within the team to do a 3.2.1 patch which will include some changes to variables to make them scale with server size. The values on the agenda are spawn rate and res flow. We're glad to see in the mean time that server communities are being resourceful enough to find their own solutions. Many improvements in NS have been inspired directly by plugins in the past, and I don't see this ever changing.
The major obstacle to making this happen is, unfortunately, me. I'm working 60 hour weeks at the moment as we prepare our product for standards compliance testing with several large cable operators. This will all wind up in the next few weeks and then we'll be able to work on it again.
I do not accept that marines are that much overpowered on large servers, from my experience, and from discussions with the serverops of large servers. Many of them admit that the biggest problem for them is that the skill wants to play marines. When they implement team randomisation or equiv they get an acceptable level of game balance, though admittedly there is room for improvement.
We would never do anything on purpose to reduce the enjoyment of 15v15 servers and will certainly try to help those communities out. We do not balance ns for 6v6 play only, that is a myth, don't listen to anyone who suggest such a thing. Our playtests are mainly conducted at around 8-10 player teams and we rely heavily on direct feedback from competitive players for 6v6 specific balance analysis.
^ ^ This post should be its own topic so everyone can see it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Glad to hear you are trying to work out a scalable balance. I imagine its quite tough to do and must require an insane amount of play testing to perfect.
<!--quoteo(post=1630520:date=Jun 1 2007, 06:19 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Jun 1 2007, 06:19 AM) [snapback]1630520[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I do not accept that marines are that much overpowered on large servers, from my experience, and from discussions with the serverops of large servers. Many of them admit that the biggest problem for them is that the skill wants to play marines. When they implement team randomisation or equiv they get an acceptable level of game balance, though admittedly there is room for improvement. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited June 2007
I don't think it is feasible to directly test this ourselves, I'd be more in favour of working with communities directly so the testing would be public. We'd obviously do some basic testing ourselves first, to ensure the changes work as intended from a numbers perspective.
We've also stated this publicly a few times, and have even mentioned it to some server operators.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
You know that unless you put it in big fat letters in the installation busy screen of the patch, most players will never motice event hough you've said it alot puzl.
Since I am one of those newbs lemme get one think straight..
You never balance for 6v6 or you balance for 6v6 if there is a need to pick a number to balance on? I got the point that you never just balance for 6v6 and let all other numbers go.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
I do not think that marines have a big advantagr in big servers. For example, while in g4b2s, while aliens get to spawn faster for free, marines still need to wait 2 minutes to spawn...unless the commander plops down SIXTY res instead of 20 res for enough spawn portals.
Also, now, instead of having 5 marines to med, he has 15 marines to give meds to. Marine upkeep scales directly with player count, yet resources stay the same. A single lerk gassing cargo can bleed the commander dry. In big games, marine upgrade ands and guns come at a slower pace, just as aliens do. However, when aliens finally do get Fades, they get like 5 of them at once. Not to mention Fades can still come quickly, since there is much, much more R4K when there are that many marines to chew.
<!--quoteo(post=1630447:date=May 31 2007, 09:31 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ May 31 2007, 09:31 PM) [snapback]1630447[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Most of the idea's in this thread are pretty much liquid fail.
Seriously, lockon gorge spit?
I think this is a troll. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->agreed
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do not accept that marines are that much overpowered on large servers, from my experience, and from discussions with the serverops of large servers. Many of them admit that the biggest problem for them is that the skill wants to <strike>play</strike> <b>stack</b> marines. When they implement team randomisation or equiv they get an acceptable level of game balance, though admittedly there is room for improvement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1630167:date=May 30 2007, 08:12 PM:name=SecretAgentMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SecretAgentMan @ May 30 2007, 08:12 PM) [snapback]1630167[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I also feel gorges are underpowered in the playing field. My suggestions for gorges consist of more hp/armor, stronger spit, and/or lock on spit. I think <!--coloro:#FF9900--><span style="color:#FF9900"><!--/coloro-->lock on spit<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> would be pretty cool for gunning down ninjas the bunny hop faster than celerity skulks lol <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol gorge rush any1?
<!--quoteo(post=1631072:date=Jun 4 2007, 03:09 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Jun 4 2007, 03:09 AM) [snapback]1631072[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I'd like to see more expanded on that.
Large servers with randomization? Show me. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1631072:date=Jun 4 2007, 03:09 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Jun 4 2007, 03:09 AM) [snapback]1631072[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I'd like to see more expanded on that.
Large servers with randomization? Show me. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Play on IAM's servers often enough and you will see one of their admins random everyone when they get tired of marine stacking. I see aliens win more then, cause everyone plays half-#*@ on marine since they are so used to having it skill stacked.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, now, instead of having 5 marines to med, he has 15 marines to give meds to. Marine upkeep scales directly with player count, yet resources stay the same.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not true. See: R4K. Medpacks at least are easily payed for.
<!--quoteo(post=1631233:date=Jun 4 2007, 01:26 PM:name=KainTSA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KainTSA @ Jun 4 2007, 01:26 PM) [snapback]1631233[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Play on IAM's servers often enough and you will see one of their admins random everyone when they get tired of marine stacking. I see aliens win more then, cause everyone plays half-#*@ on marine since they are so used to having it skill stacked. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Well, I'm talking about consistent random servers, but I do play at iam sometimes, although I question their admins.
why would you need lock on gorge spit, its really pretty easy to hit EVERY spit on a marine as long as he doesn't strafe left and right for the sole purpose of evading it, any distraction and marines become huge predictable targets.
<!--quoteo(post=1630570:date=Jun 1 2007, 12:59 PM:name=Church)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Church @ Jun 1 2007, 12:59 PM) [snapback]1630570[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do not think that marines have a big advantagr in big servers. For example, while in g4b2s, while aliens get to spawn faster for free, marines still need to wait 2 minutes to spawn...unless the commander plops down SIXTY res instead of 20 res for enough spawn portals....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Lies. 80% of all games on g4b2s (or any large pub) are marine-dominated. Those who claim to "not see a problem" are probably the same people who stack marines every round. Everyone knows its easier to get a higher K:D ratio on marines, and since most pubbers are stat-hores, it doesn't take a genious to figure out why going random will always seem to place you on the alien team. It takes a highly coordinated team of aliens to even try to match a bunch of "pub-nub" marines with a semi-decent commander. Simply put, you can balance a game for XvX all you want, but if the majority of the communiity is playing YvY matches, then maybe you better reshift your focus.
<!--quoteo(post=1631360:date=Jun 5 2007, 02:46 AM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Jun 5 2007, 02:46 AM) [snapback]1631360[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Lies. 80% of all games on g4b2s (or any large pub) are marine-dominated. Those who claim to "not see a problem" are probably the same people who stack marines every round. Everyone knows its easier to get a higher K:D ratio on marines, and since most pubbers are stat-hores, it doesn't take a genious to figure out why going random will always seem to place you on the alien team. It takes a highly coordinated team of aliens to even try to match a bunch of "pub-nub" marines with a semi-decent commander. Simply put, you can balance a game for XvX all you want, but if the majority of the communiity is playing YvY matches, then maybe you better reshift your focus. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The thing is, 80% of G4B games aren't marine dominated. If the stack shifts the aliens win, and that happens quite often. A G4B server admin could probably post more reliably figures, but playing G4B doesn't feel any more marine dominated then any other server in NS right now. I play an arseload of both.
I'd be surprised if the M/A win loss is exactly the same at G4B2S as it is on every other server in NS, but I'd also be surprised if it was more then a 10% difference.
<!--quoteo(post=1631360:date=Jun 5 2007, 03:46 AM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Jun 5 2007, 03:46 AM) [snapback]1631360[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Lies. 80% of all games on g4b2s (or any large pub) are marine-dominated. Those who claim to "not see a problem" are probably the same people who stack marines every round. Everyone knows its easier to get a higher K:D ratio on marines, and since most pubbers are stat-hores, it doesn't take a genious to figure out why going random will always seem to place you on the alien team. It takes a highly coordinated team of aliens to even try to match a bunch of "pub-nub" marines with a semi-decent commander. Simply put, you can balance a game for XvX all you want, but if the majority of the communiity is playing YvY matches, then maybe you better reshift your focus. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The funny part is these servers start banning from the top marine and continue moving down, and the problem has not changed. So they keep lowering the bar, people continue dropping offense chambers, and the cancer spreads a little more every day. Maybe this mentality, bad aliens, and a dying competitive community might have a little to do with each other?
I started playing NS over 3 years ago and I'm still going strong to this bloody day. And it appears that the community has gotten worse, and that includes most of you, especially you Steve. The fun has apparently gone out the window, and cursing, ######, and attacking other players as taken its place. Along with the fact that any of the former will then IGNITE A FIRESTORM of ish upon that person who started the topic, so now what have we done so far in this thread...
1) Slandered the topic creator. 2) ######ed about public servers and custom servers, just because it's the "Cool" thing to do for NS and CAL/ENSL/ANSL players to do. 3) Whined about balancing of the game because of skill imbalance. 4) And made the community look just a tiny bit more like a bunch of elitists ######s then before.
Honestly, I'm surprised if NS gets any new people playing these days with the way you guys act, and treat each other. I have seen this in game too, not just on these forums, it's not as bad but it sure as hell goes to show how bad we have gotten. I would rather see this game die gracefully then with the current division and hate towards each group and their sub-groups of players. Hell, their shouldn't be any sub groups, or groups, or any thing other then the community, but low and ######' behold.
I'm ashamed now to be a NS player at this point, I rarely see people try to help newbies learn in games any more, due to two things, the first being that there are barely any new people playing each day or joining NS, and because people have become so self-absorbed with the game (and themselves) they would rather give a big finger to that player then help. And, hell, trying to find a server with a good admin team, or friendly people is a dime a dozen.
I know this won't change any thing, and you can all resume your scheduled fighting as before, but I just wanted to say this and get it off my chest as a player of Natural Selection. Thank you.
<!--quoteo(post=1631376:date=Jun 5 2007, 04:45 AM:name=Arkilae)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Arkilae @ Jun 5 2007, 04:45 AM) [snapback]1631376[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I know this won't change any thing, and you can all resume your scheduled fighting as before, but I just wanted to say this and get it off my chest as a player of Natural Selection. Thank you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
most of us gave up trying to be nice to newbies and abusive server admins a long time ago
as a natural selection player, id also like to contribute: since i dont play in a clan at the moment, there is no reason for me to sweat over anyone elses "fun". i play for myself and if it pisses you off then get the ###### out. for me, ns serves just one purpose: to fill the time between two cigarette breaks when im bored ishless on the computer.
Thank you for that clear demonstration of what's wrong with the NS player base.
But can we get back on the topic of balance? I'm curious if we could find a server admin on here to agree to do random all for a day or two and track the win ratio. My guess is still that it would be 1:1 with random, meaning NS isn't imbalanced in the least. If that's the case, we need to discuss ways to prevent stacking. If it isn't the case, we need to discuss ways to balance on large servers.
<!--quoteo(post=1631415:date=Jun 5 2007, 02:22 PM:name=KainTSA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KainTSA @ Jun 5 2007, 02:22 PM) [snapback]1631415[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Thank you for that clear demonstration of what's wrong with the NS player base. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What the hell is that supposed to mean? Tomekki just wants to be able to play the game and have fun just like everyone else. Is he now obligated to hold hands with the lesser skilled players simply because of the fact that he is a high skilled player? That's ridiculous. Stop trying to blame people like Tomekki and myself for simply wanting to just play the game like everyone else.
I believe the attitude of only caring about yourself and your fun IS wrong. This attitude can extend well beyond helping new players. If wanted to just play for my own fun, I would never drop a hive, usually fade and occationally go gorge and drop 5 OCs outside marine spawn just to mess around. The reason I don't drop 5 OCs outside marine spawn just to play around, is that I care about the rest of the team's fun too, not just my own.
As for new player hand-holding, when NS was newer, people were much more likely to help new players. New players still need just as much help and tolerance as they did when NS was first released, but now people are less likely to give it to them. And NS suffers for it.
I am an Admin on the Cor Servers and yes they are primarily bot servers. As bot servers we see a fair amount of newbies come through trying to learn how the game works. This is Especially True on the Go Alien server as the marines are all bots and is thus an alien trainer. The Newbies are still around, just not plentiful. As a rule the players on our servers are very helpful to anyone who asks questions.
That being said. We do work on tactics occasionally and still manage to have a heck of alot of fun.
I also play occasionally over at IAM and between them and us and I have not notice anything OVERPOWERING about the balance. I have notice overpowered teams but that has more to do with the players stacking it than anything else. I do find it amusing that the Marine Team is the simpler more recommended team for newbies and also for the "advanced" players. Does this mean that the Kahraa is recommended for the middle level skills players? meh.
I think the whole thing is overblown. People play how they like and why is that a problem when the two team s are made TO PLAY DIFFERENTLY. Some players are going to prefer one play style over the other. IT WILL HAPPEN!
Comments
Probably 5th topic discussing overpowered marines. Not a single topic in kharaa strategy.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You think if enough topics show up that something would change.. You never see any post about aliens being overpowered...
You think if enough topics show up that something would change.. You never see any post about aliens being overpowered...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because all the bad players like playing aliens on combat where they can go Level 50 infinite charge xmenu onos and rarely play marines.
You think if enough topics show up that something would change.. You never see any post about aliens being overpowered...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There have been millions of threads of laser guns. Still the idea doesn't deserve a change. I'd be much more willing to agree with the large server balance if there would be someone actually trying to discuss how to change the way of playing instead of changing the game. You're skipping that phase right now.
Oh well... If it matters organized play at mid and low skills has been quite alien biased all the way from 3.1 final. 3.2 finally made it almost balanced. I never complained about the balance because I took my time and gave a thought why good marine teams win and tried to do the same. I'm still not much of a comm or a marine but I enjoy trying to improve and every marine round won and every well played marine round feel nice.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think this is a troll.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I could declare almost every thread here a troll, but that wouldn't be as good time killing as posting properly.
Good point Swiftspear. Actually... What exactly <i>is</i> the spawn rate with tthe first hive? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
G4B2S uses an algorithm, so the greater the # of players on the server the faster the spawn rate is. I believe it's equal to normal NS at 6v6, and then it gets slightly faster every added player... I'm not sure of the exact figures, I just know that if most of your team is dead it doesn't take 2 minutes to respawn there... and it's also virtually impossible to spawncamp alone.
That one change alone nearly completely balances the alien VS marine W/L. 15v15 is still a very different game, early game aliens get chambers earlier and there are generally some OC's scattered around the map so the aliens are strong in the early game. Also since you have 15 marines upgrades pay themselfs off alot faster then weapons do, so it's less worth it to drop shotguns until you have to for lifeforms.
that being said, the differences make the play experience awesome. It's new, it's fresh. I love playing at g4b2s, sure, it's not TG or Jigglies, but it has it's own style, and that style is acctually really fun. I wouldn't want g4b to split into 2 smaller servers. There are all of what, 2 30 man servers in NS? Leave them alone, not everyone should be little servers rehashing exactly the same play experience 500 times over. Variety is preferable.
The major obstacle to making this happen is, unfortunately, me. I'm working 60 hour weeks at the moment as we prepare our product for standards compliance testing with several large cable operators. This will all wind up in the next few weeks and then we'll be able to work on it again.
I do not accept that marines are that much overpowered on large servers, from my experience, and from discussions with the serverops of large servers. Many of them admit that the biggest problem for them is that the skill wants to play marines. When they implement team randomisation or equiv they get an acceptable level of game balance, though admittedly there is room for improvement.
We would never do anything on purpose to reduce the enjoyment of 15v15 servers and will certainly try to help those communities out. We do not balance ns for 6v6 play only, that is a myth, don't listen to anyone who suggest such a thing. Our playtests are mainly conducted at around 8-10 player teams and we rely heavily on direct feedback from competitive players for 6v6 specific balance analysis.
^
This post should be its own topic so everyone can see it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Glad to hear you are trying to work out a scalable balance. I imagine its quite tough to do and must require an insane amount of play testing to perfect.
<!--quoteo(post=1630520:date=Jun 1 2007, 06:19 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Jun 1 2007, 06:19 AM) [snapback]1630520[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I do not accept that marines are that much overpowered on large servers, from my experience, and from discussions with the serverops of large servers. Many of them admit that the biggest problem for them is that the skill wants to play marines. When they implement team randomisation or equiv they get an acceptable level of game balance, though admittedly there is room for improvement.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly.
We've also stated this publicly a few times, and have even mentioned it to some server operators.
Since I am one of those newbs lemme get one think straight..
You never balance for 6v6 or you balance for 6v6 if there is a need to pick a number to balance on?
I got the point that you never just balance for 6v6 and let all other numbers go.
Also, now, instead of having 5 marines to med, he has 15 marines to give meds to. Marine upkeep scales directly with player count, yet resources stay the same. A single lerk gassing cargo can bleed the commander dry. In big games, marine upgrade ands and guns come at a slower pace, just as aliens do. However, when aliens finally do get Fades, they get like 5 of them at once. Not to mention Fades can still come quickly, since there is much, much more R4K when there are that many marines to chew.
Seriously, lockon gorge spit?
I think this is a troll. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->agreed
I'd like to see more expanded on that.
Large servers with randomization? Show me.
I also feel gorges are underpowered in the playing field. My suggestions for gorges consist of more hp/armor, stronger spit, and/or lock on spit. I think <!--coloro:#FF9900--><span style="color:#FF9900"><!--/coloro-->lock on spit<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> would be pretty cool for gunning down ninjas the bunny hop faster than celerity skulks lol
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol
gorge rush any1?
I'd like to see more expanded on that.
Large servers with randomization? Show me.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) amx_random
2) 20 player svc_bad crash
3) <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />??
4) NATURAL SELECTION PROFIT
I'd like to see more expanded on that.
Large servers with randomization? Show me.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Play on IAM's servers often enough and you will see one of their admins random everyone when they get tired of marine stacking. I see aliens win more then, cause everyone plays half-#*@ on marine since they are so used to having it skill stacked.
Not true. See: R4K. Medpacks at least are easily payed for.
Play on IAM's servers often enough and you will see one of their admins random everyone when they get tired of marine stacking. I see aliens win more then, cause everyone plays half-#*@ on marine since they are so used to having it skill stacked.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Well, I'm talking about consistent random servers, but I do play at iam sometimes, although I question their admins.
Lies. 80% of all games on g4b2s (or any large pub) are marine-dominated. Those who claim to "not see a problem" are probably the same people who stack marines every round. Everyone knows its easier to get a higher K:D ratio on marines, and since most pubbers are stat-hores, it doesn't take a genious to figure out why going random will always seem to place you on the alien team. It takes a highly coordinated team of aliens to even try to match a bunch of "pub-nub" marines with a semi-decent commander. Simply put, you can balance a game for XvX all you want, but if the majority of the communiity is playing YvY matches, then maybe you better reshift your focus.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing is, 80% of G4B games aren't marine dominated. If the stack shifts the aliens win, and that happens quite often. A G4B server admin could probably post more reliably figures, but playing G4B doesn't feel any more marine dominated then any other server in NS right now. I play an arseload of both.
I'd be surprised if the M/A win loss is exactly the same at G4B2S as it is on every other server in NS, but I'd also be surprised if it was more then a 10% difference.
Lies. 80% of all games on g4b2s (or any large pub) are marine-dominated. Those who claim to "not see a problem" are probably the same people who stack marines every round. Everyone knows its easier to get a higher K:D ratio on marines, and since most pubbers are stat-hores, it doesn't take a genious to figure out why going random will always seem to place you on the alien team. It takes a highly coordinated team of aliens to even try to match a bunch of "pub-nub" marines with a semi-decent commander. Simply put, you can balance a game for XvX all you want, but if the majority of the communiity is playing YvY matches, then maybe you better reshift your focus.
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The funny part is these servers start banning from the top marine and continue moving down, and the problem has not changed. So they keep lowering the bar, people continue dropping offense chambers, and the cancer spreads a little more every day. Maybe this mentality, bad aliens, and a dying competitive community might have a little to do with each other?
I started playing NS over 3 years ago and I'm still going strong to this bloody day. And it appears that the community has gotten worse, and that includes most of you, especially you Steve. The fun has apparently gone out the window, and cursing, ######, and attacking other players as taken its place. Along with the fact that any of the former will then IGNITE A FIRESTORM of ish upon that person who started the topic, so now what have we done so far in this thread...
1) Slandered the topic creator.
2) ######ed about public servers and custom servers, just because it's the "Cool" thing to do for NS and CAL/ENSL/ANSL players to do.
3) Whined about balancing of the game because of skill imbalance.
4) And made the community look just a tiny bit more like a bunch of elitists ######s then before.
Honestly, I'm surprised if NS gets any new people playing these days with the way you guys act, and treat each other. I have seen this in game too, not just on these forums, it's not as bad but it sure as hell goes to show how bad we have gotten. I would rather see this game die gracefully then with the current division and hate towards each group and their sub-groups of players. Hell, their shouldn't be any sub groups, or groups, or any thing other then the community, but low and ######' behold.
I'm ashamed now to be a NS player at this point, I rarely see people try to help newbies learn in games any more, due to two things, the first being that there are barely any new people playing each day or joining NS, and because people have become so self-absorbed with the game (and themselves) they would rather give a big finger to that player then help. And, hell, trying to find a server with a good admin team, or friendly people is a dime a dozen.
I know this won't change any thing, and you can all resume your scheduled fighting as before, but I just wanted to say this and get it off my chest as a player of Natural Selection. Thank you.
I know this won't change any thing, and you can all resume your scheduled fighting as before, but I just wanted to say this and get it off my chest as a player of Natural Selection. Thank you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
most of us gave up trying to be nice to newbies and abusive server admins a long time ago
as a natural selection player, id also like to contribute: since i dont play in a clan at the moment, there is no reason for me to sweat over anyone elses "fun". i play for myself and if it pisses you off then get the ###### out. for me, ns serves just one purpose: to fill the time between two cigarette breaks when im bored ishless on the computer.
But can we get back on the topic of balance? I'm curious if we could find a server admin on here to agree to do random all for a day or two and track the win ratio. My guess is still that it would be 1:1 with random, meaning NS isn't imbalanced in the least. If that's the case, we need to discuss ways to prevent stacking. If it isn't the case, we need to discuss ways to balance on large servers.
Thank you for that clear demonstration of what's wrong with the NS player base.
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What the hell is that supposed to mean? Tomekki just wants to be able to play the game and have fun just like everyone else. Is he now obligated to hold hands with the lesser skilled players simply because of the fact that he is a high skilled player? That's ridiculous. Stop trying to blame people like Tomekki and myself for simply wanting to just play the game like everyone else.
I believe the attitude of only caring about yourself and your fun IS wrong. This attitude can extend well beyond helping new players. If wanted to just play for my own fun, I would never drop a hive, usually fade and occationally go gorge and drop 5 OCs outside marine spawn just to mess around. The reason I don't drop 5 OCs outside marine spawn just to play around, is that I care about the rest of the team's fun too, not just my own.
As for new player hand-holding, when NS was newer, people were much more likely to help new players. New players still need just as much help and tolerance as they did when NS was first released, but now people are less likely to give it to them. And NS suffers for it.
<b>YOU WERE NEW ONCE TOO</b>
That being said. We do work on tactics occasionally and still manage to have a heck of alot of fun.
I also play occasionally over at IAM and between them and us and I have not notice anything OVERPOWERING about the balance. I have notice overpowered teams but that has more to do with the players stacking it than anything else. I do find it amusing that the Marine Team is the simpler more recommended team for newbies and also for the "advanced" players. Does this mean that the Kahraa is recommended for the middle level skills players? meh.
I think the whole thing is overblown. People play how they like and why is that a problem when the two team s are made TO PLAY DIFFERENTLY. Some players are going to prefer one play style over the other. IT WILL HAPPEN!