Aliased Hotkeys (without A Required Key Press)

MadFunk · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">Are they possible (i.e. hotkey51)?</div> I'm working currently on a superfast and effective script for communication, building, etc, and I've got a problem. Why can't 'hotkey' keys be used through aliases? Is there anyway around this?
See, the script I'm working on does not read keypresses, so I need to use aliases for the commander's abilities. I'm *this* close to giving up <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

Thansal · November 2002

hotkeys can not be bound in anything save single commands to single keys, I don't know why Flay decided on this but he did

Typhon · November 2002

They 'hotkeys' are there for exactly the purpose you described: they cant be used in aliases/scripts. They are there to prevent people from gaining an unfair advantage from setting up a much faster way of doing things. With the hotkeys, everyone has to do the one key:one action default, and this helps balance the game.

Similarly, rapidly switching abilities as an alien will cause you to die for no apparent reason. This is from anti-script code placed in the game to prevent people from binding 'combos' such as leap+bite to a single key.

Acheron · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Typhon @ Nov 19 2002, 07:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>They 'hotkeys' are there for exactly the purpose you described: they cant be used in aliases/scripts. They are there to prevent people from gaining an unfair advantage from setting up a much faster way of doing things. With the hotkeys, everyone has to do the one key:one action default, and this helps balance the game.

Similarly, rapidly switching abilities as an alien will cause you to die for no apparent reason. This is from anti-script code placed in the game to prevent people from binding 'combos' such as leap+bite to a single key.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Yes, because then I'd have an unfair advantage over, um, all the other commanders in the game.... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'> <i>Commanders aren't in competition with one another</i>. I don't think it was a deliberate attempt, as I haven't yet seen it addressed as one by Flayra (mind you, I'm relatively new to this forum).

Still, even blocking aliases like blink-attack (fades) or leap-attack (skulks) seems a bit of a false step to me. I don't think a "real" skulk would have to mess around with switching between attacks. I mean, he leaps with his legs and bites with his mouth. Where's the conflict? Same deal with Blink, although you could argue that "waving your arms around randomly" is crucial to Blink.

Also, who has the unfair advantage? The only comparison to be made here is between aliens with scripts and aliens without scripts. So you must be saying if I somehow made a working script for blink-attack or leap-attack, I would have an "unfair advantage" over my teammates? <i>Hellooooooo, they're my teammates</i>.

Or does this unfair advantage involve the marines somehow? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't half the point of leap/blink the quick movement into a marine formation, combined with a devastating melee attack? So using a script makes the ability work <i>too well</i>, or, dare I say, <i>as intended</i>?

I love the mod, and this is a minor point, I know, but still, it's one deliberately added and rigorously defended by Flayra, and I still remain unconvinced by it.

Tazol · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Acheron @ Nov 19 2002, 05:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Typhon @ Nov 19 2002, 07:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>They 'hotkeys' are there for exactly the purpose you described: they cant be used in aliases/scripts. They are there to prevent people from gaining an unfair advantage from setting up a much faster way of doing things. With the hotkeys, everyone has to do the one key:one action default, and this helps balance the game.

Similarly, rapidly switching abilities as an alien will cause you to die for no apparent reason. This is from anti-script code placed in the game to prevent people from binding 'combos' such as leap+bite to a single key.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Yes, because then I'd have an unfair advantage over, um, all the other commanders in the game.... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'> <i>Commanders aren't in competition with one another</i>. I don't think it was a deliberate attempt, as I haven't yet seen it addressed as one by Flayra (mind you, I'm relatively new to this forum).

Still, even blocking aliases like blink-attack (fades) or leap-attack (skulks) seems a bit of a false step to me. I don't think a "real" skulk would have to mess around with switching between attacks. I mean, he leaps with his legs and bites with his mouth. Where's the conflict? Same deal with Blink, although you could argue that "waving your arms around randomly" is crucial to Blink.

Also, who has the unfair advantage? The only comparison to be made here is between aliens with scripts and aliens without scripts. So you must be saying if I somehow made a working script for blink-attack or leap-attack, I would have an "unfair advantage" over my teammates? <i>Hellooooooo, they're my teammates</i>.

Or does this unfair advantage involve the marines somehow? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't half the point of leap/blink the quick movement into a marine formation, combined with a devastating melee attack? So using a script makes the ability work <i>too well</i>, or, dare I say, <i>as intended</i>?

I love the mod, and this is a minor point, I know, but still, it's one deliberately added and rigorously defended by Flayra, and I still remain unconvinced by it.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Uhm.. you'd have an advantage over the opposing team by being able to do things at a much faster rate, other than other commanders, thus giving you an unfair advantage because it's not skill, it's making alias and scripts to make it seem like you're better. So thus, you are cheating the other players out of a good game. Fin.

Acheron · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tazol @ Nov 19 2002, 10:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Uhm.. you'd have an advantage over the opposing team by being able to do things at a much faster rate, other than other commanders, thus giving you an unfair advantage because it's not skill, it's making alias and scripts to make it seem like you're better. So thus, you are cheating the other players out of a good game. Fin.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it impossible to "balance" NS to assume that Commanders are, by nature of the game, limited to a certain speed? Every Comm. operates at his own pace and these paces vary widely. Thus, the assumption that a faster Comm. has an "unfair advantage" is flawed. How much faster would he have to be? Would this be noticeably faster than the fastest of "purist" Comm.s? I would love to hop into a game with you one day, if all the script caps were removed, just to see your reaction to a commander with great micro. If your Comm. listened to his marines, responded in great time to equipment requests, dropped buildings quickly and efficiently, and <i>generally did his job very well</i>, would you call him a "Skilless scripting cheater"?

Wake up, Amish of the NS community: "skill" does not equate to "being able to click buttons faster with your mouse instead of using keyboard shortcuts." Skill as a Comm. will, and always will, revolve around <i>the strategies/tactics you use and how you implement them</i>. If a commander doesn't have to drag his mouse all the way across his screen and back to drop a building, and instead uses two keys on his keyboard (<b>just like every RTS game since Warcraft II</b>), <i>who cares</i>?

Fin.

(PS: this is in no way an attack on the game designers <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>)

gazzer · November 2002

hm this is such a hard thing, hmm

anyways here my peace of cheese:D

i used to play alot of tfc and the only thing that p33ed me off was , Rocketjump scripts ( the double ones) conc jumps ( double ones again) and the stupid stupid look down with a press button .

anyways i think the main idea is to pervent some cheat scripts , like some aimbots that uses binds so u can set it up for your team etc. if that is the main idea then i'd say good on him <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

but if it could be more better, i mean I wanna be able to bind leap bite, and also be able to bind auto reload.

simple stuff like that , THAT won't affect the game play has such, this surely has to be let in or i'm afraid u might see a few modded versions of NS coming out with this pertection removed. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'>

really thou it needs to be either server side configed or removed, lets say if a server admin can turn it off or on? the right click menu it so time consuming, why should i use the menu when i could make a script to enable me to reload build etc? call for help and all that

In clan games we can't afford to use right click. !!

Iden · November 2002

As a future point:

In version 2 there is planning of Aliens vs Aliens and Marines vs Marines. So yes, you will eventually be scrimming against aliens as aliens and going 'against other commanders'.

[edit]
Oh, and I believe the whole point of the anti-script idea is:

You should be a good gamer, not a good programmer to win NS.

If you want the 'battle of the scripts' I'm sure there are millions of games out there to play with. Flayra believes everyone should be on a level playing field, the same playing field. I support and like the idea. Want to switch from leap to blink? Use hud_fastswitch and bind the attacks near your movement keys.
[/edit]

Align · November 2002

I tried to make a "3-shot-burst" "script" mainly for the pistol(something like +attack; -attack; wait; +attack; -attack; wait; +attack; -attack ), but it didn't work. It fired two shots, then it shot no more. Unless I switched to LMG, then it would shoot all the time. Some +attack that was left on somehow. And I didn't ever die from this script btw, which is why I post this... Tell me if I should edit my post and remove this cause its info for lamers or whatever reason...

coil · November 2002

The pistol has been protected precisely because of such scripts; one of the playtesters had a script that would fire a pistol faster than an HMG - imagine having a 10-bullet HMG from the very start of the game!!! It was instant death to any skulk. You have to manually click for each bullet fired.

Acheron · November 2002

Funny fact about burst-fire scripts that makes them useless:

HL essentially "queues" commands, so if your burstfire script is, at its core, <i>"+attack; wait; wait; ... ; wait; -attack"</i>, commands issued during the execution of that script will not be executed until the script itself is finished. Thus, if you start a 3-round burst, and then try to strafe, the game will wait until you stop firing and <b>then</b> move. Worse still: if you hit the fire button again during the script (or, like me, if you panic a lot and hit it 50 times), your character will "lag" with all the queued commands, and you will move in seemingly random directions for a few seconds.

Again, though, these sorts of scripts are almost totally useless in NS: none of the automatic weapons has significant recoil, and the pistol speed can be capped by server-side limitations. The only real use I ever saw for a burst-fire script, even in CS, was as a great way to teach trigger control, and a way for newbs to understand recoil better. These scripts, like most other "gimmicky" scripts, are fairly newblish; I guarantee top players don't use them.

Aliased Hotkeys (without A Required Key Press)

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