Did The New Armor Backfire?

Breakthrough · April 2005

Now that everyone knows the new armour buff to the Marines... This only caused skulks to actually want to parasite Marines. Now, because of this, it's taken multiple strategies down (early Hive rushes), because of the fact that the Aliens know where every single Marine is.

Assuming that the top is true, doesn't this mean that the Marines allowed slightly higher armor levels for the Aliens knowing where the whole team is?

Alkiller · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Breakthrough @ Apr 28 2005, 08:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Now that everyone knows the new armour buff to the Marines... This only caused skulks to actually want to parasite Marines. Now, because of this, it's taken multiple strategies down (early Hive rushes), because of the fact that the Aliens know where every single Marine is.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
The patch encouraged teamwork (i.e. parasiting), thus raising the skill level of the average player.

What's not to like?

Zunni · April 2005

I'm confused... people are complaining because newer people don't play NS right, so something comes along and helps people use parasite the way it was intended (and helps with teamplay and all that other good stuff), and it's a bad thing???

/me furrows brows in confusion..

Swiftspear · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Apr 28 2005, 09:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I'm confused... people are complaining because newer people don't play NS right, so something comes along and helps people use parasite the way it was intended (and helps with teamplay and all that other good stuff), and it's a bad thing???

/me furrows brows in confusion..  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
QFT

Gecko_God_Of_Dooom · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Apr 28 2005, 09:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I'm confused... people are complaining because newer people don't play NS right, so something comes along and helps people use parasite the way it was intended (and helps with teamplay and all that other good stuff), and it's a bad thing???

/me furrows brows in confusion.. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
What made you think you could actualy make people happy by giving them what they want??? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' />

MistenTH · April 2005

The system would have backfired if 90% of skulks wanted to bite bite then try to get a parasite kill no matter the situation.

The skulk's 2nd ability is there for a reason, and cool, now it's getting used.

Besides, if aliens went SC first, they wouldn't even need to bother parasite to gain the intel.

DaJMasta · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Apr 28 2005, 09:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> /me furrows brows in confusion.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
awww dont make that face.... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' />

Teamwork = increased, whether intentional or not, the devs have gotten the alien team ro function more as a team, whether they realize it or not, the intel of more parasites cuts down on marine ramboing, and the added need for another bite/parasite makes aliens less likely to rambo, and more likely to ambush.

Its a little harder i'll give you, to be an alien, but if both teams get boosted teamwork, then everyone wins. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' />

im_lost · April 2005

The big question is, do aliens continue to parasite once they know marines have a1? If they don't, then it isn't a very useful increase in teamwork. Then again, they might keep doing it out of habit, or they might realize that it actually helps them kill marines even when it doesn't cut a bite off of the kill.

Sky · April 2005

Well, maybe the habit will stick. 3 long range paras = no more armor1. 2 skulks working together, one sitting above a doorway and one perched in a vent parasiting, can strip marines back down into 2-bite range really quickly.

im_lost · April 2005

I wonder how viable of a strategy it would be for skulks to take adrenaline and use parasite an insane amount, to the point where parasite alone will kill the marine if medpacks aren't given.

Gecko_God_Of_Dooom · April 2005

If thiers enough lerks

Sky · April 2005

Well, it's just as viable a strategy now as it was before the armor got upped. It's just that people will actually be paying attention to para now.

Let's see...13 parasites to kill a vanilla rine (or is it 14 because of armor absorbtion?). A skulk with good aim can hit a marine 2-3 times with one "volley" (one energy bar), so it'd take 2 skulks probably 3 volleys in order to kill a single rine without medpacks. That'd be at least, what, 10 seconds? Unless there are more than 2 skulks, they're right next to an MC, or the com just isn't paying attention, I doubt parasite will be used much to kill marines by itself.

Though, imo, it's worth a clan looking into for a new alien strat. Packs of sniper skulks picking off marines from a distance; they'd never expect it. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' />

2_of_Eight · April 2005

It's like lerk spikes! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' />

Sky · April 2005

Oddly enough, they <u>are</u> a lot like balanced lerk spikes. A tad on the weak side...that's it, I have to try being a para-skulk next chance I get.

DragonMech · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Apr 28 2005, 08:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I'm confused... people are complaining because newer people don't play NS right, so something comes along and helps people use parasite the way it was intended (and helps with teamplay and all that other good stuff), and it's a bad thing???

/me furrows brows in confusion..</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I think the original poster is trying to say that the marines actually <i>suffered</i> with the additional +5 armor, because skulks parasite so much more - revealing the marine's location permanently. This causes many strategies such as ninja PGs to be nerfed greatly.

There have been several ideas in the I&S in the past to allow the removal of a parasite, but they were all shot down because parasite was too weak and wasn't used. Maybe it's time to look at those ideas again.

theclam · April 2005

I could see adren skulks sitting on top of hives with MCs absolutely destroying marines with parasite.

MistenTH · April 2005

Yea I can see it now, 91 hp skulks with a pinpoint 30 dps weapon (no upgrade), 40 dps weapon (adren upgrade) or 50 dps weapon (adren and mc) facing off against 160 hp marines with a pinpoint 200 dps weapon.

theclam · April 2005

If you do the numbers like that, then it would also make it look like lerk spikes suck, which they don't.

SaltzBad · April 2005

Its 16 parasites to kill an a0 marine. And I don't know what lerkspikes have to do with this - totally different energy use and rate of fire.

c_oma · April 2005

so let me get this straight... marines get a boost to their armotr, and all of a sudden skulks strat using parasites like there's no tomorrow? whether or not the damage done by parasite adds to the kill, parasiting is a good strategy anytime (unless there is a sensory chamber close). most average skulk players will still try to bite like crazy...

Nemesis_Zero · April 2005

58 hours...

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

tankefugl · April 2005

You could write a novel on this, Nem0, on the aftermath tension after the 3.0.3 release -- hour by hour <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' />

Swiftspear · April 2005

I thought the 3.0f release was worse... But to be fair, 3.0f was acctually imbalanced.

DC_Darkling · April 2005

I have been shouting "%^&*#&% PARASITE THE DAMN RINES" since 2.x

glad ppl actually do it now

Breakthrough · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DragonMech @ Apr 28 2005, 11:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I think the original poster is trying to say that the marines actually <i>suffered</i> with the additional +5 armor, because skulks parasite so much more - revealing the marine's location permanently. This causes many strategies such as ninja PGs to be nerfed greatly.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
That basically sums up what I was saying.

I think parasite removal is also a good idea, but the implementation should at least require some resources from the Marines.

puzl · April 2005

All those strategies parasiting has opened up were available since NS1.0. If they are as powerful as you claim, then it's a good thing that they have been 'discovered'. A game is not balanced if there is a hidden strategy that unbalances it.

2_of_Eight · April 2005

Exactly. Parasite has been around forever, you could <i>always</i> use parasite to keep track of Marines. Now, Aliens finally started doing it - meaning playing the game to its fullest - and the game is now unbalanced?
I say, Aliens have to try now to win. Just a bit.

DarkFrost · April 2005

I enjoy getting parasite kill after parasite kill. its fun.

DeathblowESF · April 2005

It adds another level to the game. I am a vet of the game and now i have to change my tactics. I still find myself sneaking up to a rine bite bite and thinking he was dead and getting killed. But that only happens once in a game then i come to my sences and using my different tactics.

Rammstien · April 2005

I have always parasited marines who were far away. The only difference now is i parasite before I bite. So I guess these marines might get through after 1 bite + parasite, but they would have been dead before the patch. I don't see how this hurts marines.

Blue_Mary · April 2005

Can anyone PLEASE explain why when I get parasited once, and bit once, I have 74 health instead of 75 health?

Should it not be 75 due to the armor change?

And I think the armor change hasn't affected much gameplay at all, except for making SCs less wanted first now for the focus-ness.

Did The New Armor Backfire?

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