Bunny Hopping With Knife

FantasmoFantasmo Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7369Members
<div class="IPBDescription">What do you think?</div> I have began to notice Marines are bunny hopping with knives more and more. I'm not sure how effective it is but I thought it was pretty funny a Marine getting the jump on a Skulk with a knife... but what do you guys think of the 'tactic'.

This is not a, "I'm for it" or "I'm against it" post. Just wanted to know what the community thought about it.

Oh, while I'm here, what about the Welder Attacks? What do you think of those? I saw a whole group of HA/Welders attacking a base once that gave me a good chuckle.

I'm asking about these things in particular because they are not bugs, maybe just unintended tactics.

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Comments

  • ekentekent Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7801Members
    Man, I've almost killed onos before by bunny hopping (with an LMG and pistol), but some other alien #$@# always comes into the room and spoils my fun.
  • Secret_NinjaSecret_Ninja Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9286Members
    I get sort of annoyed when guys with l334 CS skills play as marines. I have seen marines that can take out two or three average skulks (read: not that good, but good enough) at a time with nothing but an LMG and pistol. I give 'em props for being so good, but it's annoying when it becomes normal to send 4 aliens out to kill one marine. For some reason, though, CS skills don't help too much when you are alien...or maybe your average CS player just doesn't see the point in playing as a fat cow that waddles about and spits buildings.
  • TyphonTyphon Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 1899Members
    IMO bunnyhopping is completely non-realistic, spoils the atmosphere, and is an exploit. I am totally against it.

    Welding as a weapon is a great addition to the game. It allows the marines to easily take out structures that are undefended without using 84lb of ammo.
  • Speed_2_DaveSpeed_2_Dave Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8788Members
    "Bunny hopping" with the knife sounds neat. As a ninja skulk, I often drop on the heads of marines and eat them from the top down, so I don't really see a problem with them getting the jump on me if I'm on the ground ("all's fair").

    As for the welding, it's kind of ridiculous. With one welder I've taken out 3 weakened Onos too busy raping the base to turn around and face a marine making healing noises <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
    I am personally for the welding strategies. It takes some practice to get good at welding things like skulks, and it won't always work (lag problems, etc).

    Has anyone else had problems with accidentally hitting the right mouse button while trying to do complicated maneuvers and getting killed because the **obscenity** pop-up menu prevents you from attacking?
  • ekentekent Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7801Members
    I don't understand -- who <b>doesn't</b> bunny hop in real life? If I'm bored walking to class...
  • Speed_2_DaveSpeed_2_Dave Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8788Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--(e)kent+Nov 19 2002, 03:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ((e)kent @ Nov 19 2002, 03:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't understand -- who <b>doesn't</b> bunny hop in real life? If I'm bored walking to class...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    LOL
  • ctxctx Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4592Members
    Excuse meh newbity...but, wth does IMO and IMHO MEAN?

    I've been going insane to try and figure out what this means, as I have seen it popping up at a few boards I use.
  • DarkSpawnDarkSpawn Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1834Members
    IMO = In my opinion
    IMHO = In my humble opinion

    I guess.
  • Kung_FoolKung_Fool Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4092Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--ctx+Nov 19 2002, 11:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ctx @ Nov 19 2002, 11:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Excuse meh newbity...but, wth does IMO and IMHO MEAN?

    I've been going insane to try and figure out what this means, as I have seen it popping up at a few boards I use.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    IMO = In My Opinion
    IMHO = In My Humble Opinion <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->

    As for the bunnyhopping issue, I don?t really see a problem with that as long as the speed remains the same. And why the heck would it be bad for a skulk if a marine jumped on him? Would he be pinned to the floor or something, unable to move?
  • TikiTorchBobTikiTorchBob Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8527Members
    Bhop isn't even that big a deal with the speedcap anymore.

    Even without(celerity) it isn't THAT useful. The maps tend to be in small spaces.
  • ArchzaiArchzai Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8007Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Secret Ninja+Nov 19 2002, 02:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Secret Ninja @ Nov 19 2002, 02:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I get sort of annoyed when guys with l334 CS skills play as marines. I have seen marines that can take out two or three average skulks (read: not that good, but good enough) at a time with nothing but an LMG and pistol. I give 'em props for being so good, but it's annoying when it becomes normal to send 4 aliens out to kill one marine. For some reason, though, CS skills don't help too much when you are alien...or maybe your average CS player just doesn't see the point in playing as a fat cow that waddles about and spits buildings.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    not that hard to do that.... killin 4 skulks alone...

    and yes i play CS.. but i dun think it has much to do with the fact i can do it...
  • ArchzaiArchzai Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8007Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--ctx+Nov 19 2002, 06:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ctx @ Nov 19 2002, 06:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Excuse meh newbity...but, wth does IMO and IMHO MEAN?

    I've been going insane to try and figure out what this means, as I have seen it popping up at a few boards I use.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    here:

    IMO: in my opinion
    IMHO: in my HONEST opinion or in my HUMBLE opinion <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
    nah ur not a newb.. haha thats not wut a newb is <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> hehe .... its jus u dunno the abbreviations/acronyms
  • wlibaerswlibaers Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8685Members
    What is bunnyhopping? Just jumping while crouched, or is there some trick involved?
  • ThansalThansal The New Scum Join Date: 2002-08-22 Member: 1215Members, Constellation
    ok, here comes GTT (great teacher Thansal ;D)

    Bhopping = and exploit
    BHopping (what it actualy is) it is a way to gain speen, basic concept is that you use the strafe keys for move ment and jump exactly when you land (it is sorta hard to pull of basic deal is you strafe jump and use your mouse to keep you going fowards by turning in air)

    what some ppl thing Bhopping is:

    1) constantly jumping
    2) constantly duck jumping

    I view BHopping as an exploit, and just like any other exploit it should = a warning, then a kick, then a pemaban, but that is b/c I am compleatly against exploits

    further on BHopping:
    it only works in larger spaces (it is rather hard, but still possible, to do on most NS maps, thus why the Devs didn't bother putting in a fix like in CS

    Next up, all of those CS newbs who pull out their knives when they are moving, LAUGH AT THEM

    you speed is dictated upon ALL of what you are carrying, so a marine with an HMG always moves slow er then a LMG marine ;D




    Also as for 1 marne taking out multiple skulks, well yah it should be possible (especialy if he is smart enough to pull out his pistol, 20 dmg per bullet, realy fast, and DEAD ON ACURACY)

    oh well, there goes my 2 ;D
  • DoombringerDoombringer Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8679Members, Constellation
    Bunnyhopping = Jumping around repeatedly from place to place instead of walking. I think.

    I've also heard it called Crowhopping. AND IT IS DAMN ANNOYING! I've been witnessing 'hopping' in multiplayer FPSes for almost as long as these games have been in existence, and it is the most moronic tactic I've ever seen. You are NOT skilled if all you do is mash the spacebar for the entire game.

    A pox on you and your keyboards!
  • BeanHeadBeanHead Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7230Members
    edited November 2002
    I didnt bother to read the rest after the IMO part cause I just lost the will, but knifing completely nukes a skulk in one hit (lvl 1, that is)

    It seems they like to use the knife+bhop combo because the knife (afaik) does a wall of dmg... all they have to do is be facing the skulk (on the xz plane, that is, not actually aiming AT the skulk) and click at the right time (which seems to be quite a long timeframe in my experience) and the skulk is smoked.

    EDIT:
    Ok, I read the previous post. Bunny-hopping is when you jump and then hit crouch at the apogee of your jump. It makes you as hard to hit as when you are crouching and jumping combined (because you are) and still move almost as fast as running. It's unbelievably lame... When's the last time ANYONE jumped around from place to place for minutes on end?
  • HavoKHavoK Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3698Members
    edited November 2002
    <!--QuoteBegin--Thansal+Nov 19 2002, 08:25 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thansal @ Nov 19 2002, 08:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Next up, all of those CS newbs who pull out their knives when they are moving, LAUGH AT THEM

    you speed is dictated upon ALL of what you are carrying, so a marine with an HMG always moves slow er then a LMG marine ;D<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I believe they pull out their knives because knives usually connect on skulks, before the skulk's bite can connect on marines (welders are even worse). Why marines have more melee range than skulks is beyond me.

    I usually just resort to parasiting them until they switch back to a weapon. Usually if I try to attack a marine who has a welder or knife out, I get insta-gibbed before my bite connects. So unless you can get them from the side (which is difficult if they are jumping up and down like idiots), just keep parasiting them until they stop.
  • ThansalThansal The New Scum Join Date: 2002-08-22 Member: 1215Members, Constellation
    edited November 2002
    kinfe = 30 DMG
    skulk = 75 DMG
    skulk has a much faster attack speed, skulk wins, especialy if he dosn't stand fn still

    any skulk who gets taken down by a knife deserves it
    if he was already DMGed, ok unterstandable

    however if a marine ever pulls out a knife on me I just eat em in 2 bits and then I laugh at them b/c I am still at full HP/armour, never try and knife me <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

    also, go back and read my previous post (I HATE GETTING THE last post on a page!!)

    HavoK, slightly true I guess (I have never run into this)

    however yes, if there is a marine with a knife out, by all means parasite the tool

    Story (cant help it):
    I was at our hive and some marine was trying to take out some off/deff chambers by himself with an lmg, I was behind the chambers and I ping him with a 'site, he then RUNS off and hides around the corner, I am sitting the cracking up b/c he was trying to hide when he was sited.

    so I creep around the corner run in and drop one bite on him then run back, well the next thing I hear is the *shing shing* of a knife, I look around and there he is bouncing like an idiot and waving his knife, I sat there for a second before I ran up and bite him again, lol was too funny looking
  • HavoKHavoK Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3698Members
    I assume the marine attack damage upgrades work for the knife as well as the other weapons? Which is probably why it insta-kills skulks.
  • reborebo Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2734Members
    Bunnyhopping is not simply constantly jumping. Nor is it crouch jumping. In the HL patch 1.1.0.8 you could use the bunnyhop technique (jumping combined with sideways mouse movements) to gain very high speeds. This was a very contraversial issue in all HL mods, some mods universally depreciating it (CS) some mods generally accepting it (TFC, HLDM). In the current patch however there is an arbitary speed limit that is decided on a per-mod basis. In TFC it was set at 1.7*base speed in CS it was maxed out at 1*base speed. Therefore any bunnyhop increased speed you see in NS has been decided by the NS team.

    Bhop isnt necessarily bad or good, each community has to make up its own idea. The word exploit is a completely overused and inprecise word that means very little. Many things can be construed as exploits (for instance crouching in a vent to hide your hitboxes - quite serious or wallstrafing -quite minor) but not all are necessarily bad for instance rocket jumping in quake was originally an 'exploit' and now an accepted part of FPS gameplay. You have to decide in each particular instance wether something is good or bad for the game.

    I think the original question is asking wether marines should be able to constantly jump to aviod getting hit by skulks. I think that if NS introduced a stupid energy bar for jumping it would be extremely bad for the game. Sure you are making yourself hard to hit, but thats half the challange.
  • UnknownUnknown Join Date: 2002-06-12 Member: 759Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--HavoK+Nov 19 2002, 01:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HavoK @ Nov 19 2002, 01:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I assume the marine attack damage upgrades work for the knife as well as the other weapons? Which is probably why it insta-kills skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Even with all the weapon upgrades the knife cannot kill a skulk in one hit. Its just not possible.

    You only kill a skulk fast with a knife is because the knife has a very fast ROF also a little lag. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • TikiTorchBobTikiTorchBob Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8527Members
    edited November 2002
    Bunny hopping doesn't prevent a skulk from jumping up and biting the marine, does it?
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    1) constantly jumping
    2) constantly duck jumping
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Wow, jeez, way to go. So now jumping constantly is an exploit? I see you know what you're talking about. Bunny hopping isn't jumping constantly, it's strafe jumping with mouse movement. Bunny hop makes you accelerate quickly because you gain speed while in midair faster than on the ground, and strafe makes you go faster than forward.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->it only works in larger spaces (it is rather hard, but still possible, to do on most NS maps, thus why the Devs didn't bother putting in a fix like in CS
    I view BHopping as an exploit, and just like any other exploit it should = a warning, then a kick, then a pemaban, but that is b/c I am compleatly against exploits<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Right, so why the hell are you complaining about it and suggesting admins should ban for it? Do you have any idea how annoying it is to log into a server(Not just NS, I've played TFC for years and this happens a lot now) just to have some **obscenity** tell you that how you play is 'cheating'? You said it yourself, if the NS devs thought it worthwhile they would remove it.
  • FantasmoFantasmo Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7369Members
    Let me clarify.

    When I said "Bunny Hopping" I meant constantly jumping up and down (usually to avoid being hit).

    Sorry I should have used another term, I had forgotten that HL had a specific BHing exploit that increased speed and mobility. That is NOT an issue with NS.

    I'm kinda on the fence about the Jumpy/Knife Attack. I can't say I haven't cut down my share of Skulks or taken out a Lerk in Umbra with Jumpy Knifing. At the same time when I do get those kills I feel a certain... "cheapness" (kinda) for the kill.

    I had NEVER killed a Skulk with a knife until I discovered Jumpy/Knifing. I don't think this is an epidemic or nothin', just a few people are getting pretty good at it. I wonder if this is going to become a regular thing or what?

    I wonder if we can get an official response from somebody? Maybe a playtester or something? Was Jumpy/Knifing employed in Playtesting? Was it accepted by the NS Team that Jumpy/Knifing is a legitimate tactic?

    At any rate, I'd still like to hear what the community thinks? Annoying? Stupid? It's there, they didn't remove it so it's legit? Ba-wah?
  • FantasmoFantasmo Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7369Members
    Oh yeah, instead of Bunny Hopping let's just call it Jumpy/Knifing. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

    Just so people won't get the two confused.
  • BaconBacon Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8543Members
    maybe put in a system like dod. anyone know what i'm talking about? you get an energy bar, and each time you jump it goes down and slowly refills (faster if you duck). so you get a max of two jumps going into any conflict. rather smart idea. something else to talk on the list of "put this in i command it." alright, my two cents.
  • GenmaCGenmaC Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2002Members
    Constantly jumping has to be one of the STUPIDEST things I have EVER seen, no matter what FPS you are talking about.

    No matter how many cheese kills you get while jumping around like a moron, just know that you look completely and utterly like a 12 year old CS **obscenity**.
  • domesticxdisputedomesticxdispute Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2300Members
    Hmm, I see there's a controversy between games on what "bunnyhopping" and "strafe jumping" are.
    Let me tell you what I know. (I used to and occasionaly still do play TFC)
    Bunnyhopping -
    This is usually done by binding jump to your mousewheel, so you can jump more effectively. You strafe left, look left, strafe right, look right, all while not pressing the forward key at all. During old TFC patches, you could reach GODLY speeds by doing this. Now, the cap is at 170%.
    Strafe jumping -
    Basically the same thing as bunnyhopping, except you use your forward key. You can usually gain speeds up to 140-50%
    In NS, I usually strafe jump, and I clearly get more speed than just normally walking.
    My $.02
  • VeTeRaNVeTeRaN Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7555Banned
    When you pull out your knife with HA on, you do run faster. It's a small increase but still noticeable ... barely.
  • FantasmoFantasmo Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7369Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--domesticxdispute+Nov 19 2002, 04:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (domesticxdispute @ Nov 19 2002, 04:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hmm, I see there's a controversy between games on what "bunnyhopping" and "strafe jumping" are.
    Let me tell you what I know. (I used to and occasionaly still do play TFC)
    Bunnyhopping -
    This is usually done by binding jump to your mousewheel, so you can jump more effectively. You strafe left, look left, strafe right, look right, all while not pressing the forward key at all. During old TFC patches, you could reach GODLY speeds by doing this. Now, the cap is at 170%.
    Strafe jumping -
    Basically the same thing as bunnyhopping, except you use your forward key. You can usually gain speeds up to 140-50%
    In NS, I usually strafe jump, and I clearly get more speed than just normally walking.
    My $.02<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Oh.

    I was under the impression that there WASN'T a speed increase with any of these Jumpy Tactics.

    I though Jumpy/Knifing was just that, whacking the space bars over and over while you slish-slash with your knife.

    I didn't realize there were actual exploits that increased your speed! <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> That is uncool.

    Ewww, if this is true then it needs to be addressed. This sort of exploit could blow the balance right off by allowing a team to advance much quicker then they were designed to go.
  • FantasmoFantasmo Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7369Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--VeTeRaN+Nov 19 2002, 05:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (VeTeRaN @ Nov 19 2002, 05:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When you pull out your knife with HA on, you do run faster. It's a small increase but still noticeable ... barely.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah, I knew about this but like you said, the speed increase just doesn't justify walking around with no ranged weapon at ready.
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