God And Bush
Jdub
Join Date: 2004-08-07 Member: 30431Members
Join Date: 2004-08-07 Member: 30431Members
in Discussions
I was just wondering what everyone thinks about the relationship Bush claims to have with God.
Personally, I think it is a bad thing to have a President that has this much religious zeal. Believing that God is behind your decisions would make you feel like your decisions are infallible. So you wouldn't really think through your actions as well or as thoughtfully as you would if God <i>didn't</i> speak to you.
But, that's just my stupid opinion.
Personally, I think it is a bad thing to have a President that has this much religious zeal. Believing that God is behind your decisions would make you feel like your decisions are infallible. So you wouldn't really think through your actions as well or as thoughtfully as you would if God <i>didn't</i> speak to you.
But, that's just my stupid opinion.
Comments
That is, if he is religious at all. I do not know about the details of this mans religious backround, i did not know that he knew was able to read the bible before the election campaign for his second period started. All of a sudden, his PR management did not miss any opportunity to deliver the picture of a true saint.
Considering the large amount of christians and christian organisations with serious influence in the US, it kind of smells like a PR strategy. But I don't want to accuse him of this, its upon the historians to judge in that matter.
Considering religion is a way of controlling the masses it is a fantastic way of controlling for you benefit.
This makes Bush a fantastic politicion and an influencer of men
Considering religion is a way of controlling the masses it is a fantastic way of controlling for you benefit.
This makes Bush a fantastic politicion and an influencer of men<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea. Now that you say so.... weren't they fighting fundamentalism? Ohh the hypocrisy is beating me with a spiked club.
As for Bush thinking that he's always right - well, show me a leader of a nation who's indecisive and doesn't stick to his guns, and I'll show you a proabable failure.
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Christian's everywhere hope and pray that they are doing God's will, whether it be helping a neighbour or donating to the Church. They believe that God reveals his will to them, and then they try and execute it. You see this all the time in Churches when they are making purchases of things like land, they pray about it, then they start raising money, and approach the council. If the council rejects them, then they will say "if God wants this to happen, then he will make it happen". If nothing happens, then they consider that a "No!" answer to "God, should we purchase the property next door and expand" prayer. They do not say "Heathen council, are you opposing the will of the Almighty God, I speak with his authority, step aside or face eternal damnation".
Bush works in the same way. He wants to do God's will. He believes it is God's will that he spread peace throughout the Middle East, and that if he strives towards that goal, and it is God's will, then God will bless the endevour, and if it is against God's will, then God will put a stop to it. At no point does he ever think "God is on my side, so whatever I say or do, its like God is doing it, so everything I do must be right".
For your information - GWB has not always been a Christian. From all the reports of his childhood, he was completely off the rails - drugs, alcoholism, DUI, military service skimping etc. Then, before he entered politics, he met Laura, and she converted him. Some time later, he entered the political arena and did exceptionally well for himself, and his religious convictions appealed to the many voters the held the same convictions. I dont feel that he simply dragged religion along because he thought it would help him in the political arena, his faith and beliefs are who he is, to try and hide them would be dishonest.
Having grown up in the Church, I got to see this kind of faith-reinforced action all the time. They dont believe they are weilding the authority of God.
Amen. No pun intended.
Also hasn't bush said many times he's doing "God's will" and that "God told him to be president" so if he's working for God's will, who the **** is working for the peoples.
God?
Too much evil has been done in the name of god already
Generally, people who use religion as an excuse to do evil misuse it. If someone murders in the name of God, it's not religion's fault. It's the nutter's. Besides, religion has done a lot of good, too.
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While I respect your intent in the post, and find the message one that probably does need to be said more often. I know a lot of well balanced, nice , kind Christians who actualy do live up to the moral code set down mby Jesus. Yet these are the Christians that people notice most, its the ones that tell me I'm going to hell for (insert just about anythign I've ever done in my life) while I'm riding the bus that I notice, not the one sitting next to me who takes the "let he wittout sin cast the first stone", and "love your enemys as I have loved you" sort of things seriously.
However I didn't intend to wax on about the current state of Christianity in America, but rather to call attention to your use of the term "our founding religion". First off, despite what people may say, most of the founding fathers, including Thomas Jefferson, who's Declaration fo Independence is in my mind the most important legal document in our countries history, or should be anyways, were not Christians pre-say. They were by and large Deists.
Most of the so called "Christian morals" that people point to in the Declaration fo Independence, and the Constitution are actualy extentions of the secular Enlightenment Philosphy that was popular at the time.
Yes, a lot of great men in our past, who have helped shape our country were devout Christians, Lincoln comes to mind, and I'm not even sure i would go so far as to say that Bush's current use of Christainity in every public apperance is wrong. But to say "our founding religion" is problematic for two reasons, as mentioned above, its not really an accurate look at the past, and second it begins to allow the imfringment upon the First Amendment. That we cannot allow.
As an aside, I'm somewhere between agonosticism and a Norse Pagan religous outlook on life, but I find the current debates over if the words "under god" in the pledge of aligence or "in god we trust" on our coins foolish, and counter-productive to maintaining our freedom of religion, because they are, in my mind, rather pointless, and it makes the call for freedom of religion seem less importnat, less meaningful (the boy who cry wolf thing)...
Who elects the president?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bush works in the same way. He wants to do God's will. He believes it is God's will that he spread peace throughout the Middle East, and that if he strives towards that goal, and it is God's will, then God will bless the endevour, and if it is against God's will, then God will put a stop to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How does he know his god wants to spread democracy throughout the Middle East? Maybe god really wants him to nuke the pants off those heathens. This is why we can't beat religion into submission. Example: Little Timmy, a 6 year old ethnic minority amputee who's getting A's at school and spends his free time serving food at the soup kitchen and collecting money for tsunami victims, hobbles into a busy street on his wooden crutches to save a kitten. He gets hit by a Greyhound bus, the priest says it was his time and that god was calling for his servant. Or: He trips before he gets to the bus lane and makes it off the street with the kitten under his arms before the Greyhound smashes his little wooden crutches to tiny bits. The same priest says it was god's saving grace.
What scientists call <i>anomalies</i>, the faithful call a <i>vision</i>.
What scientists call <i>anomalies</i>, the faithful call a <i>vision</i>. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right, I bet none of you ever had one, but oh well. Explain to me how such a thing feels.
/me runs
What scientists call <i>anomalies</i>, the faithful call a <i>vision</i>. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right, I bet none of you ever had one, but oh well. Explain to me how such a thing feels.
/me runs <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you've never really prayed then you can't hope to understand. And prayer is only day-to-day communication with God. Apparently Bush thinks that he communes with God on a deeper level. Trying to explain to you what any of this might feel like is futile.
It's not futile, I can explain it to you Jezpuh. See, when I was a kid, my parents sent me to a private Catholic school, because they wanted to start indoctrinating me right away. I learned how to pray and sit still in church and receive the body of Christ, and all that jazz. Every time we went into the church during school hours, I'd try my hardest to talk to god, becuase all those guys in the Bible did it. I tried and tried, but no matter how hard I tried to pray, I didn't feel any different. Teachers explained to me that God doesn't always talk to you, and all their other distractionary measures to keep kids from asking good questions about religion.
When I graduated that school, I learned that there were actually people who didn't believe in god *gasp* and I started reading everything I could find about religion and theology as a high school freshman. I visited Rabbis, went to Budhist temples, basically looked into every world religion there was, and came to the conclusion that religion was a crock. Just an idea made up by a couple of cavemen who wanted to be able to explain why a lightning bolt killed Fred, and not Grog. My parents were disappointed, but being the good lberals they were, didn't make a big deal about it, although I still attend liturgies when my more devout extended family comes to town, because if I told my grandmother I no longer wished to practice Catholicism, she'd probably have a heart attack.
If anyone is deserving to speak to god, don't you think a child would be the first candidate?
It's not futile, I can explain it to you Jezpuh. See, when I was a kid, my parents sent me to a private Catholic school, because they wanted to start indoctrinating me right away. I learned how to pray and sit still in church and receive the body of Christ, and all that jazz. Every time we went into the church during school hours, I'd try my hardest to talk to god, becuase all those guys in the Bible did it. I tried and tried, but no matter how hard I tried to pray, I didn't feel any different. Teachers explained to me that God doesn't always talk to you, and all their other distractionary measures to keep kids from asking good questions about religion.
When I graduated that school, I learned that there were actually people who didn't believe in god *gasp* and I started reading everything I could find about religion and theology as a high school freshman. I visited Rabbis, went to Budhist temples, basically looked into every world religion there was, and came to the conclusion that religion was a crock. Just an idea made up by a couple of cavemen who wanted to be able to explain why a lightning bolt killed Fred, and not Grog. My parents were disappointed, but being the good lberals they were, didn't make a big deal about it, although I still attend liturgies when my more devout extended family comes to town, because if I told my grandmother I no longer wished to practice Catholicism, she'd probably have a heart attack.
If anyone is deserving to speak to god, don't you think a child would be the first candidate? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Congradulations. You don't like religion. I happen to. You think that religion is a crock of lies, I think there's some truth to it. All I said was that Jezpuh could never understand what it felt like to talk to God in one way or another because
1) He's never done so, attempted to do so, or felt the urge to do so
2) He has consistently shown himself to be the biggest cynic when it comes to religion I have ever seen. Both you and he don't believe in religion, but Jezpuh openly mocks anyone who does, which is just sad really.
In the end, you had a bad experience with religion (most likely it's because you tried to hard and expected too much, which is common with kids that are sent to Catholic school. I personally know lots more kids who have given up on religion after being sent to a religious school than kids who were just allowed to practice their faith when they wanted). That doesn't mean that the rest of us have to give it up, or that we are fools because we have faith where you can't feel anything.
i dunno what you want to make of this and i dont nescisarily trust the source but it is definately very interesting.
You just put a sign over your head saying, "Hey Democrats, come and get it!"
if the left wing nut jobs wanna come over the rockys to give me something, I'll be waiting
That's great.. but it's not like I said anything remotely like that.
It's okay, we can co-exist. Where many (not necessarily you) have faith, I have the yearning to scientifically explore the unknown. I absolutely despise people who use religion as a cop out to explain what they don't understand.