New Announcement #2

Zek · November 2004

<div class="IPBDescription">New B6 News (nov 12)</div> I'm on a roll!

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85217' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...showtopic=85217</a>
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Oh boy, it's like a religious holiday held in December (I am "Politically Correct Man").. I'm back with more B6 news.

O Sieges no longer damage players under any circumstances.
O Siege cannons no longer does double damage to structures but instead deals a flat 330 damage
O Added 'notready' command to reverse ready status in TournamentMode games.
O Updated welder idle sound to be more obvious when not welding anything.

Hope you guys enjoy the tidbits of data I'm sharing, more to come!</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Not quite as interesting this time around, though the siege change was a long time coming.

DragonMech · November 2004

Nice changes all around. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

Forlorn · November 2004

Nerfing seiges is a horrible idea, it makes no sense, seiges are already difficult to use and cost mad res, they should put a hole in aliens defense and be devestating.

Lower their cost if you do this

Also it was always really easy to dodge the seige's damage to begain with, just stay vertically far away from the seige's target and you will be safe.

See <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85218&view=findpost&p=1328569' target='_blank'>here</a> for more negative effects of sieges.

The_Fluffy_Duck · November 2004

Personaly I think nerfing sieges is a bad idea. Playing as aliens it already too easy to take out a rine position. Now the damage has been halfed. That measn instead of the default 3 sieges we will have to build 6 to ge the same effect. Bad idea!!!

But the diffrent sprites for buildings and the sent of fear when in ranges of a sens is a great idea!!!!

male_fatalities · November 2004

Nerfed seiges, guess thats a good idea. Lucky enough it doesn't unbalance it too much.

Zek · November 2004

Siege damage to players was stupid. Isn't it enough to tear apart all the chambers in the room without making the area a deathtrap to aliens at the same time? I don't see why aliens should ever be afraid of their own defenses. Not to mention the buggy and unreliable nature of siege's blast radius which only made things worse.

Delphi · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Nov 12 2004, 10:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Siege damage to players was stupid. Isn't it enough to tear apart all the chambers in the room without making the area a deathtrap to aliens at the same time? I don't see why aliens should ever be afraid of their own defenses. Not to mention the buggy and unreliable nature of siege's blast radius which only made things worse.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I agree. Being able to stand next to your hive while it was being sieged and take NO damage whatsoever, while moving two feet to the left and north of the hive made you take 50092230 points of damage in the interim firing times seemed wonky to me.

Gadzuko · November 2004

Finally, siege damage to players is gone. I don't care if they increase the damage it does to structures to compensate, as long as I never have to run away from my healing station or spawn in and instantly get siege-killed again. Actually they <i>should</i> increase siege damage, because now a couple gorges can gang-heal anything being sieged without worrying about taking damage.

Yash · November 2004

I'm going with the Anti-siege nerf movement. Sieges took long enough on their own, we don't need that time nerfed.

Buggy · November 2004

Yeah, this idea, whilst good, needs a counter-change.

Lower cost, or Increase damage.

Thats_Enough · November 2004

Yeah, I like how seiges won't affect aliens now, much better, and should introduce an actual ability to counter-attack rines.

Altho, I really think it should cost less res. More damage to structures could be bad...

Zek · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Yash @ Nov 12 2004, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I'm going with the Anti-siege nerf movement. Sieges took long enough on their own, we don't need that time nerfed.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
The damage change is just a matter of semantics, there was no damage nerf... Before, sieges did 165 x 2 damage to structures. Now, they do 330 damage to structures. Same thing.

Meto · November 2004

lol.

But now siege damage is 1/8th x 8 instead of 330.

Fix the nerf! I'm against the siege damage divide by 8 multiply by 8 nerf!

Alkiller · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 12 2004, 09:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Also it was always really easy to dodge the seige's damage to begain with, just stay vertically far away from the seige's target and you will be safe.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I was once killed by siege as a lerk, in viaduct hive, while flying over the walkway.

Sieges needed a fix and I think this is a good one. Overall, I'm liking what I see. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' />

illuminex · November 2004

So, anyone consider the fact that, well, these are just some definite changes? You know, I'm sure the devs have some sense of balance, since this next beta is supposed to bring some pretty big changes. They won't nerf the sieges a million times without providing something else.

Maybe it's just me...

TheAdj · November 2004

Wasting my time.

typicalskeleton · November 2004

So a "fix" is removing the feature completely?

i always thought it made sense. if 'rines successfully deploy sieges it should be fairly devastating. in pub play, aliens are typically able to take out siege positions (I've seen them do it with skulks alone against high-level armor), I'm not sure why this got put on the "to do" list for this update (I'm hoping we see a lot of other significant changes, because this seems a bit misguided in general).

this could potentially be another balance issue. I've seen situations before where marines make a semi last-ditch siege attempt on aliens to get back in the game, and it ends up being one of the only hopes they have to eliminate higher lifeforms (the old retreat-and-get-sieged thing). now that's removed.. okay... I guess aliens will be able to just return to their DC farm while the siege cannons fire on their resource tower and useless offense chambers... sounds great... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' />

SaltzBad · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheAdj` @ Nov 13 2004, 12:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> You guys really aren't in a position to critisize the changes to siege when you don't know the entire story. When B6 comes out you'll understand all the changes, they're definitely needed. Plus siege damage to players was always annoying, contrary to popular belief sometimes siege did horizontal damage, sometimes vertical, and it varied from hit to hit.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Hey guys, lets not tell the whole story, so we can squash any argumentation with "You don't know enough". After all having to reason out our ideas can only have negative effects, like we all know how much Beta4 rocked.

Roberto · November 2004

so I can't siege eggs? :'(

kabab · November 2004

Awww i would have liked to see it go the other way.

Seige does damage to both marines and aliens with FF off would make attacking a hive in a pub game more tactical.

How is the target order? Because atm it shots nodes > cambers > hive.

It should go cambers > hive > nodes

Forlorn · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (illuminex @ Nov 13 2004, 12:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> So, anyone consider the fact that, well, these are just some definite changes? You know, I'm sure the devs have some sense of balance, since this next beta is supposed to bring some pretty big changes. They won't nerf the sieges a million times without providing something else.

Maybe it's just me...  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I don't trust them, sorry <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> You guys really aren't in a position to critisize the changes to siege when you don't know the entire story. When B6 comes out you'll understand all the changes, they're definitely needed.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

1.0, 1.01, 1.02, 1.03, 1.04, 2.00, 2.1 betas, 3.0 builds, 3.0 beta 1, 3.0 beta 2, 3.0 beta 3, 3.0 beta 4

Will 3.0 beta 6 be added to the list? You decide 2005 on bad playtesters!

im_lost · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (typicalskeleton @ Nov 12 2004, 09:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> this could potentially be another balance issue. I've seen situations before where marines make a semi last-ditch siege attempt on aliens to get back in the game, and it ends up being one of the only hopes they have to eliminate higher lifeforms (the old retreat-and-get-sieged thing). now that's removed.. okay... I guess aliens will be able to just return to their DC farm while the siege cannons fire on their resource tower and useless offense chambers... sounds great... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Yep, the 60 res the aliens spent on OC's should become completely useless the moment the sieges are up.

If the aliens spent the time and res on an OC and DC farm, it should take time to siege it out. Like you said, this was a last-ditch effort for marines. It should be hard.

Sieges shouldn't damage players, that's just silly. Like others said, increase structure damage if necessary.

Petco · November 2004

No more being afriad of standing next to a chamber or the hive <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /> .

Forlorn · November 2004

Putting up seiges is very difficult against fades/lerks/gorges/skulks

Not only do you have to put up the seiges under constant spore spam, but fades will be zooming around you plus the skulks who consistantly try to kill you.

And maybe a gorge to spit you from afar.

But really the thing what makes sieges so difficult to put up and expensive is lerk spores.

Unless lerk spores were somehow nerfed or otherwise changed seiges will still be a major problem to put up, and now with the <b>added benifit of being <i>less</i> effective!</b>

<u>Oh yeah!</u>

DrFurious · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>O Siege cannons no longer does double damage to structures but instead deals a flat 330 damage</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
How is this any different? Do they do 660 in b5?

amnesiac · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Nov 12 2004, 09:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> O Sieges no longer damage players under any circumstances.
O Siege cannons no longer does double damage to structures but instead deals a flat 330 damage
 </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
That's the worse news I've heard all day...

Forlorn · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DrFurious @ Nov 13 2004, 02:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>O Siege cannons no longer does double damage to structures but instead deals a flat 330 damage</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
How is this any different? Do they do 660 in b5?  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
They did that because before it dealt 165 to creatures and double to structures

Now it just deals 330 flat out and somehow the big explosions don't mean anything to aliens

SpaceMoogle5 · November 2004

... It's a <span style='color:red'>TEST</span> build that means we are going to try it out hence the <span style='color:red'>BETA</span> 6 part, jesus guys, if it is a SERIOUS problem it will be scrapped... Allow me dole out a bit of advise, look at SM5's flow chart...

<span style='color:red'>
IDEA(where it all starts "lets try this")
</span> <span style='color:yellow'>
CODE IN IDEA(Lets see if this idea works)
</span> <span style='color:green'>
PLAYTEST(PT's do their thing)
</span> <span style='color:blue'>
DISCUSS(how did it go?)
</span>
THEN
<span style='color:red'>
BETTER GAME(Yay NS is a better game)
</span>
OR
<span style='color:yellow'>
FLAMING RAGING COMMUNITY OUTRAGE(Whoops maybe that idea needed more testing)
</span>
Problem with current situation...

CURRENT FLOWCHART:

IDEA(where it all starts "lets try this")
FLAMING RAGING COMMUNITY OUTRAGE!!!!111
CODE IN IDEA(Lets see if this idea works)
FLAMING RAGING COMMUNITY OUTRAGE!!!!!111
PLAYTEST(PT's do their thing)
FLAMING RAGING COMMUNITY OUTRAGE!!!!!111
DISCUSS(how did it go?)
FLAMING RAGING COMMUNITY OUTRAGE!!!!111

Please allow me to say again, we are PLAYTESTING this concept, it is by no means ABSOLUTLY final, just at the Playtest stage(just above/below outrage)

And about the worst PTs ever, well the PT's don't sit around and cook up the ideas, thats the DEVs, PT's do just what the name implys... Playtest. And the current group is VERY dedicated and hard working. Flame all the Devs you want(especially Zunni) but just because you don't see the PT's testing(since they are private) doesn't mean they are not working, and working hard at that. So please save the PT comments since since most people don't get the honor of associating with them.

That be all
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>
SM5
</span>

PS

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' /> FOR LIFE!

SaltzBad · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 13 2004, 02:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Unless lerk spores were somehow nerfed or otherwise changed seiges will still be a major problem to put up, and now with the <b>added benifit of being <i>less</i> effective!</b>
 </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Yay for paying a set res amount simply to stand around as a marine. Better not have such a fragile effort pay off.

SLizer · November 2004

I also like this sieges were actually overpowered when you could kill easily 4 aliens on blast. They are supposed to have chance instead of insta-gib when spawned. To that gorge gangbang You need to have at least 3 gorges to hold any kind of wise comm off....

Forlorn · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SaltzBad @ Nov 13 2004, 04:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 13 2004, 02:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Unless lerk spores were somehow nerfed or otherwise changed seiges will still be a major problem to put up, and now with the <b>added benifit of being <i>less</i> effective!</b>
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Yay for paying a set res amount simply to stand around as a marine. Better not have such a fragile effort pay off.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Oh yeah, and it's not like the aliens are going to try and stop the seiges, nope, no way...

New Announcement #2

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