Chambers

CrueltyIsMyGameCrueltyIsMyGame Join Date: 2004-07-27 Member: 30179Members Posts: 13
Why isnt MC, SC, DC the most usefull??
Im wondering... why isnt the favorite chamber from start MC??

In Combat, every decent skulk choose celerity/leap(not an option) first.. closing the distance to rines + map control is very important. Early on skulks eaqual rines if they have the speed... carpace just dont do the trick. Some may say "Then just ambush for the kills...".. well.. there are very few good ambush spots rines dont know of.. and if the rines knows how to BH with decent aim.. well.. ambush almost worthless.

But why is it so important to get DC first in Classic?? Because of fades/Onos's?? Well, from my point of view, its more important to get res the first 6-7 mins.. and the easiest way for aliens, due to resflow, is killing rines. With the celerity/silence upgrade, this task becomes easier for skulks... thus the overall alien resflow will raise.

IMO fades with celerity is better than fades with carpace/regen.. unless its electrified RT we are talking about. But those elec RT should be more uncommon if aliens got mapcontrol.

If the average skulk has celerity or even focus, they should get more kills. Thus canceling the effect of early fades and spread the res overall for the alien team. This again means, more fades earlier... 3 fades without regen/carpace can be as good as 1 with the regen/carp upgrade.

So... more speed, more kills, more res, more fades, more hormogen team.

or am I totally wrong??

Comments

  • LofungLofung Join Date: 2004-08-21 Member: 30757Members Posts: 903
    MC has the best abilties among the 3 chambers. with a adrenline gorge it acts like a healing center, with a silence skulk/lerk it works much more betting than cloaking and cele for fades to speed hit and run back to hive. this sounded good but what u need is TEAMWORK and SKILLS. so we usually have dcs in pubs. like arms lab of marine, getting armor 1 is fine but if u get a team knowing how to shoot get weapon 1 rulez
    Proud to be the member of NWNS community for 10+ years. From hardcore to leisure. From students to salarymen.

    QUOTE
    no, the game is more like diablo 3. well, its still on the forums. but the fun is just incomparable to AAA titles.
  • degamer106degamer106 Join Date: 2004-05-09 Member: 28550Banned Posts: 162
    edited August 2004
    well in combat you don't need to spend res to put up 3 mcs. on top of that, there's no mcs to destroy. you automatically get a level 3 celerity//silence upon choosing the upgrade as well.

    ns_ maps are quite different than co_ maps in that they require much more teamwork and patience to win. there's also resource towers to be capped on ns maps that are critical for both teams to get upgrades.

    if you've read any previous posts on why mcs are good//not good then you'll have all your questions answered.
    BOO NO COMPUTER AND NO INTERNET
    I WILL MISS NS SO MUCH D:

    #battery on gamesurge.
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation Posts: 3,203
    In combat your personal choices don't affect what other players may choose.

    To quote you-

    QUOTE

    In Combat, every decent skulk choose(s) celerity


    DECENT skulk. In NS, not every player is decent. Unlike combat, your choices WILL affect them. If you choose MC first and they're all mediocre players then you're going to lose BADLY. Thats why people go for the safe option of DC first.

    DC first also allows defence against turret lockdowns - regen and carapace are your friends. DC keeps bad players alive longer. And it can be used just as well by better players - MC can't be used well by lower class players.

    So it ends up DC first. NS is a TEAM game, so you have to use team strengths. Dropping MC because it makes you an individually better player is a pretty pointless move, and will earn you the disrespect of the team if not a one way ticket off the server.
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    you are right though. if your entire team is pro, do a quick mic poll and dump down that MC.
    NS2
    Old/resigned Dutch Translation Lead. Give feedback about the translation, or help improve by clicking: Current NS2 Dutch translation project. Dutch players apply!
    NS2 Server Maintenance Manual
    WorkshopBackup Manual (WSB Server)
    Ingame: DCDarkling
    'DCDs Steam Workshop', for your NS2 X-Hairs and Viewmodel Weapon mods
    Viewmodels are the ones you hold in your hand, not the one shown in the world!

    Old NS2 Stuff:
    Marine Commander Guide NS2
    Alien Commander Guide NS2
    NS2 Mentor Program
    Old NS1 stuff:
    'Infested Pack v0.6' for models & props
    Darklings Guide to Commanding Version 1.001
  • ApocalypseApocalypse Join Date: 2003-12-23 Member: 24700Members Posts: 105
    QUOTE
    But why is it so important to get DC first in Classic?? Because of fades/Onos's?? Well, from my point of view, its more important to get res the first 6-7 mins.. and the easiest way for aliens, due to resflow, is killing rines. With the celerity/silence upgrade, this task becomes easier for skulks... thus the overall alien resflow will raise.

    DC is the top choice because it benefits fades the most. By the 4 minute mark (when you can get fades), you will likely only have 1-2 res nodes (thats including your hive node). Skulks just don't cut it, even at the beginning of the game, skulks are very weak and they become progressively weaker as the marines tech up. Without fades, its very hard for aliens to stop marine progression or to protect the building second hive (have you ever tried to stop marines from seiging your second hive with a MC fade; its next to impossible).

    QUOTE
    MC has the best abilties among the 3 chambers. with a adrenline gorge it acts like a healing center, with a silence skulk/lerk it works much more betting than cloaking and cele for fades to speed hit and run back to hive. this sounded good but what u need is TEAMWORK and SKILLS. so we usually have dcs in pubs.

    An interesting theory, but in reality it doesn't pan out. As you say, in pubs, people have less teamwork, which would lead to the downfall of the MC strat. Yet, in the clan scene, where teamwork is supposed to be at the top, DC is much more prevalent. Simply because the raw power of a DC fade is the only thing that can stop marines - and then aliens still lose most of the time anyway.

    QUOTE
    like arms lab of marine, getting armor 1 is fine but if u get a team knowing how to shoot get weapon 1 rulez

    That might be true in the perfect world, where marines never miss. In reality, even the best players get hit, thus making armor 1 one of the best upgrades in the game. It gives you one more bite, whereas weapon 1 doesn't change anything (still takes 9 lmg bullets to kill a skulk).
  • AvengerXAvengerX Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned Posts: 1,675
    I agree totally about getting MCs first, you'll see that I even have my own thread made about it, I don't know how to make a hyperlink to it cuz I'm not really good at online crap like that (and a little lazy) so I probly sould learn cuz it makes me look kinda dumb

    but yeah the threads right below this one on the front page of alien strad. in case your interested
    (\_/)
    (='.'=)


    NS rocks
  • TheGlowTheGlow Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9650Members Posts: 325
    I find MC give me better options.
    DCs are nice for the chambers themselves.
    I dunno. Id like to see more M-D-S
  • Captain_SparkyCaptain_Sparky Join Date: 2004-07-25 Member: 30126Members Posts: 39
    In CO I usually get cloaking, that way I can sneak around and surprise my prey. I use the element of surprise because I find that works best.

    In regular NS I usually go for dc's first. But it also depends on the map. Some players have put up sc's and we have lost the game. Your best bet would be dc's. Alot of the other players might give you flack if you put up sc's or mc's. pudgy.gif
    Ivanhoe's Kitten
  • TheGlowTheGlow Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9650Members Posts: 325
    In co cloaking is the last thing I get, if at all.
    I find hiding around and biting people to be dishonorable.
  • CrueltyIsMyGameCrueltyIsMyGame Join Date: 2004-07-27 Member: 30179Members Posts: 13
    Good points made!

    They most notable is the skill nullifying benefits of MC... but then again, it nullifyes every alien chamber and win..smile-fix.gif Its very hard being alien in classic now a days.... u need at least 3 good aliens to compete against 1 good comm with 1 good rine.

    Sorry for reopening a topic allready there, didnt see it.. sorry..:/
  • keep_it_Gangstakeep_it_Gangsta Join Date: 2003-06-23 Member: 17632Members Posts: 502
    QUOTE (-=CrueltyIsMyGame=- @ Aug 23 2004, 04:06 PM)
    and if the rines knows how to BH with decent aim.. well.. ambush almost worthless.

    You cant bunny hop as marines anymore.
    Admin of Brys Natural Selection Servers (UK)
    #bryns @ qnet - www.brywright.co.uk
    82.138.247.145:27015 -16 man, ns only
    82.138.247.145:27020 -16 man, ns and co
    82.138.247.160:27015 -rG NS (#urbangamer @ qnet)
  • keep_it_Gangstakeep_it_Gangsta Join Date: 2003-06-23 Member: 17632Members Posts: 502
    I used to think MC was better aswell but listen,

    Thing is, you need someone with decent skills who is getting loads of kills as skulk early game to be saving for the hive, with MC first you need that second hive seriously quickly.

    I suck as fade without celerity, but its too easy to get cought out by a pair of sg marines waiting for you without DC. With MC first I would get more kills and find it easier as skulk early game, but as soon as marines start getting upgrades, which a good comm will, skulks start to become less useful.

    Whe it comes down to it, in a clan game, you will have 1 hive saver, 2 fade rush and the rest RTs/chambers. Those 2 fades will either win or lose you the game, because you get the fades usually about the time as marines are going for the second hive lock-down. Now if you fades do well and prevent the 2nd lockdown you usually go on to win, if you fades get killed your ****. Problem is fades go down too damn easily against competent marines with SG's unless you have DC's.

    Admin of Brys Natural Selection Servers (UK)
    #bryns @ qnet - www.brywright.co.uk
    82.138.247.145:27015 -16 man, ns only
    82.138.247.145:27020 -16 man, ns and co
    82.138.247.160:27015 -rG NS (#urbangamer @ qnet)
  • SkySky Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Members Posts: 3,669
    QUOTE (Lt.Sparky(fire) @ Aug 23 2004, 09:24 PM)
    In CO I usually get cloaking, that way I can sneak around and surprise my prey. I use the element of surprise because I find that works best.

    Silence works exactly like cloaking in combat (silence + leap or celerity = cries of "DAMN CLOAKER!" from marines, and much laughter from me). The only difference is, you can keep moving (in fact that's the POINT) with silence, while with cloaking you're either standing perfectly still on a ceiling or you're dead. Cloakwalking is just too easy to spot.
    Don't get cloaking, especially right away. You need to gain levels as fast as possible in the early combat game, and any other upgrade will let you acheive this more than cloaking. Not to mention it's useless late game, where the extra one bite doesn't really mean much, while silence will never be completely useless unless every marine gets MT AND checks behind them constantly, and even so it's useful to be able to bite one marine in a group without alerting the others.
    user posted image
    QUOTE (Snidely)
    I guess their slogan should be "with a Trojan, sex will last as long as the Trojan War, with only a fraction of the eroticism".
  • NGENGE Join Date: 2003-11-10 Member: 22443Members Posts: 1,007
    QUOTE (Lofung @ Aug 23 2004, 11:36 AM)
    MC has the best abilties among the 3 chambers. with a adrenline gorge it acts like a healing center, with a silence skulk/lerk it works much more betting than cloaking and cele for fades to speed hit and run back to hive. this sounded good but what u need is TEAMWORK and SKILLS. so we usually have dcs in pubs. like arms lab of marine, getting armor 1 is fine but if u get a team knowing how to shoot get weapon 1 rulez

    Wow you really don't know what you're talking about, sorry.

    MC has great complimenting abilities, and benifits the skulk the most. A celerity fade will not cut it IN A MATCH vs a regen or cara fade. Gorges tend to be a waste of a player, so donating 1/6th of your entire team to strictly building and healing is also a waste. Scilence lerk is also a waste of res, but adren or celerity I'll admit is good.

    And weapons 1 before armor 1 is also known as the "I really don't know what the hell I'm saying" argument. You can live for 50% longer with armor 1, or kill a gorge in a bullet or 2 less with weapons 1. It kills skulks NO faster whatsoever, unless they have upgrades. And no amount of your so called "skill" is going to stop a decent skulk who gets a good ambush on you from getting 2 bites.

    QUOTE
    I find hiding around and biting people to be dishonorable.


    So it's honourable to go on a kamakazi mission, only without any chance of causeing any damage whatsoever. Got it.



    Just becaue a chamber is "OMG SO COOL" doesn't mean it's actually numerically (which also means situationaly) more effective.


    QUOTE
    and any other upgrade will let you acheive this more than cloaking.


    Well.. not any upgrade tounge.gif Go gorge or adren first? Naaaaah. But you're right about it being foolish to get cloaking first.
    Smart thing of the moment:



    -since NS came out. Since the summer of 04- - "A Veteran Player"

    Good thread!?
  • SkySky Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Members Posts: 3,669
    QUOTE (NGE @ Aug 25 2004, 05:53 PM)
    QUOTE
    and any other upgrade will let you acheive this more than cloaking.


    Well.. not any upgrade tounge.gif Go gorge or adren first? Naaaaah. But you're right about it being foolish to get cloaking first.

    Well, I guess as long as we're being nit-picky, I'd take cloaking over redemption as my first upgrade, though it's reeeeally annoying whenever a skulk redeems on you.....on second thought, I'd take redemption tounge.gif
    user posted image
    QUOTE (Snidely)
    I guess their slogan should be "with a Trojan, sex will last as long as the Trojan War, with only a fraction of the eroticism".
  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation Posts: 3,175
    QUOTE (Necrosis @ Aug 23 2004, 03:58 PM)
    In combat your personal choices don't affect what other players may choose.

    To quote you-

    QUOTE

    In Combat, every decent skulk choose(s) celerity


    DECENT skulk. In NS, not every player is decent. Unlike combat, your choices WILL affect them. If you choose MC first and they're all mediocre players then you're going to lose BADLY. Thats why people go for the safe option of DC first.

    DC first also allows defence against turret lockdowns - regen and carapace are your friends. DC keeps bad players alive longer. And it can be used just as well by better players - MC can't be used well by lower class players.

    So it ends up DC first. NS is a TEAM game, so you have to use team strengths. Dropping MC because it makes you an individually better player is a pretty pointless move, and will earn you the disrespect of the team if not a one way ticket off the server.

    exactly, but if youa are playing with experienced skulker's and people who know to get that second hive up ASAP then MC is actually the best choice. DC is safe for pubs.
    Coined the qualitative attribute entropy in reference to game maps.
    Do not eat the dark energy balls, please.
    imageimageimage
  • NukeAJSNukeAJS Join Date: 2004-05-04 Member: 28443Members Posts: 187
    DCs are also dropped first because it increases the effectiveness of an OC by like ... a lot. One OC without a DC is quite easy to take out as long as one marine has time and the commander drops some ammo. With a DC an OC now becomes virtually non-killable in the beginning of the game.

    Gorges becoming wicked good healers eh? Well yeah that is true but a well placed DC can do that and passively too.

    Every lerk I know of wants regen over silence as a first upgrade. Yes, silence does rock (I favor adrenline as a lerk but I definately see the arguement for silence), but if I'm pestering marines and they see me silence does crap. No matter how good you may think you are a good marine will know where that vent is and will be waiting for you. Regen allows you not to die after a barrage of bullets since you can sit around and heal up without having to make that risky hive trip at low health. It protects your lerk investment.

    I see your fade arguement though. As a fade I want celerity. Regen and carapace rock but in my opnion I want celerity. Also, if I get fade really fast silence can be absolutely devasting if you have good skulks painting targets and you come up from behind. I do agree with whoever said a DC is better for defending a hive going up. When I fade I am out "in the field" so a MC works for me. A DC is much better for defending for self-explainatory reasons.
  • LofungLofung Join Date: 2004-08-21 Member: 30757Members Posts: 903
    edited August 2004
    QUOTE (NGE @ Aug 26 2004, 06:53 AM)
    QUOTE (Lofung @ Aug 23 2004, 11:36 AM)
    MC has the best abilties among the 3 chambers. with a adrenline gorge it acts like a healing center, with a silence skulk/lerk it works much more betting than cloaking and cele for fades to speed hit and run back to hive. this sounded good but what u need is TEAMWORK and SKILLS. so we usually have dcs in pubs. like arms lab of marine, getting armor 1 is fine but if u get a team knowing how to shoot get weapon 1 rulez

    Wow you really don't know what you're talking about, sorry.

    MC has great complimenting abilities, and benifits the skulk the most. A celerity fade will not cut it IN A MATCH vs a regen or cara fade. Gorges tend to be a waste of a player, so donating 1/6th of your entire team to strictly building and healing is also a waste. Scilence lerk is also a waste of res, but adren or celerity I'll admit is good.

    And weapons 1 before armor 1 is also known as the "I really don't know what the hell I'm saying" argument. You can live for 50% longer with armor 1, or kill a gorge in a bullet or 2 less with weapons 1. It kills skulks NO faster whatsoever, unless they have upgrades. And no amount of your so called "skill" is going to stop a decent skulk who gets a good ambush on you from getting 2 bites.


    ehhh ok i messed up those numbers

    but i aint talking bout a match

    why not pushing people gorge? a fade is not a marine killing machine. if you need a fade to take down elected rts or turrets, why not a skulk and a gorge? skulks run the game, so why not benefit them? they are the majority, why not? ok enjoy your dc. i just get so bored with them
    Proud to be the member of NWNS community for 10+ years. From hardcore to leisure. From students to salarymen.

    QUOTE
    no, the game is more like diablo 3. well, its still on the forums. but the fun is just incomparable to AAA titles.
  • kolokolkolokol Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9166Members Posts: 476
    Mc's are viable for the higher lifefroms, but only if you do something like placeing them in vents so the wounded fades or lerks can zip back to the hive. In some maps this is not possible and i feel that lack of regen is too risky for higher lifeforms in most maps.
    claxt for the win...
Sign In or Register to comment.