Stop The Whinning!

XtremeX · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">The answer to your questions</div> Okay I really sick of all the whinning about how things are not fair now for marines, and such. The reason a game may seem very is unbalanced is the simple matter of skill and teamwork. I have seen 5 marines win againest 8 aliens, and vice versa. This game is build on teamwork. And in teamwork you have to know how to work together. If you a group of marines don't clump up, that makes you a perfect target for a hungry Snark, and fade looking to let loss some pent up acid. Three Marines who know what they are doing can easily take out an entire hive. When I command I try my hardest to stay away from HA and HMGs and Grenade launchers. People who work together usually win, both on Marines as well as Aliens. Have you ever seen what 3 skulks can do? They can rip up a small base in a matter of seconds. And now that they can actually stand a chance againest turrets it makes preparing for defence much better. In the department of defense Marines have the award for best. Turrets fire fast, move fast and in numbers are really hard to kill unless you go for the factory now. The Alien defensive are more of a slowing down then an actual halting of a Marines Advance. And to me thats fine, the Aliens if they know how to work together really don't need something like that. Stay together, communicate, and learn hit and run tatics as Aliens and you will be almost unstoppable. Marines learn how to cover and build. Learn how to slowly advance foward. Take a position, fortify and move on. Conserve RP as long as you can, and when you make the final push, work together and hit a site from more then one direction, don't clutter, and communicate and you will do great. The game itself is as close to being balanced as it can. Its the people and tatics used that make it seem like it isn't. As every keeps saying, this is and always will be a team based game. And just the feeling of the entire team working together perfectly is the coolest thing ever.

Now I need to shut up <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

GG everyone and hope to cya in the servers <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

kazvall · November 2002

This is exactly why people should stop complaining, and just get better. Things can turn around in this game easily. Today I was playing a game where I was on aliens and we were barely holding on with one hive. We did a few skillful things. I got one hive, someone got another. And before anyone knew it the marines had 7 onos' up their **obscenity** ^_^.

It is all team work, the best team wins.

XtremeX · November 2002

Come on people post replys!!

Jackson_Dane · November 2002

I think it's harder for the marines now, which it should be. Now the marines have to have a good commander and work together, or they will get worked. Many props on the patch!!

Kenichi · November 2002

With the dawn of the current patch i think the marine teams we have been seeing all over got a kick in the face. No longer to you find the standard level captaing able to dish out HMA + HA like they are candy. The Aliens always had to play hardcore in 1.0 in order to win. Now those hard core aliens are going against relativly noobish marines considering the 1.0 resources. That coupled with the weakening and strengthening of the aliens has completly caught many of the marines off guard. Then instead of blamming themselves for sucking they find it easier to whine and moan about how the aliens are too strong. Indeed a good commander is a must on the marine team in order to win, and now the marines need true teamwork similar to what the aliens have been doing since the beginning of the games launch. I'm sure once the players catch on to this there will be less bitching and whining.

DeadlyFred · November 2002

I'm really sick of hearing about how "uber 1337 alien players were at the beginning" what, just because you play the underdog it makes you better than everyone else? Sheesh. Marines didn't ALWAYS win pre-patch, the imbalances were not <b>that</b> extreme. Now, post patch, the Aliens have a number of perks going for them, and the marines got a handful of nerfs in addition to the fixing of the resource flow.

I play both sides and really have no prefrence towards either. I still think the odds have been swayed a bit too much in the Alien's favor.

MutantMFM · November 2002

This is how the aliens where ment to be imarines had a bit of a edge in version 1.0 and in numbers. But now the aliens have a better chance to win against the powerful marines but it takes a while to get that far. The reason marines are losing now is because they got to full of themselves in version 1.0. In version1.01 they have to lose that attitude or they will keep losing because they can no longer be a one man army anymore.

Necro · November 2002

if it wasn't balanced i would not be winning 1 game with aliens...then 1 with marines...same ppl on server.

MutantMFM · November 2002

Yeah it is balanced now I just wish people would stop whinning that the marines are no longer overpowered.

Valkoinen · November 2002

It's just so much easier to complain about imbalance when you lose when the sides are dramatically different. In "normal" games like CS if you kept losing you called the others cheaters, now you call the mechanics unbalanced.

The marines have disadvantage and the aliens are too difficult to play? Get better or go play something else.

I think it's got a good balance right now. With teamwork either side can win but also lose the game if they lose the ball.

SoDum · November 2002

As far as I know the resource model wasn't changed. It is the same as far as i can tell. The sole tweeks that are big enough to make a difference was the general buf-outage of the fade. Everything else is really a small enough change that it will barly effect game play. I dont quite know why aliens are winning early game more often now, but I played on tanith with a hand full of very good players, 3 v 3 and later 5v5. The marines won because they stuck together and took the aliens methodicaly. We even stomped 3 onos before they reached our turret farm.

Its all, completly based on nodes. With 5 nodes, you will see a good 300 minerals starting to stack up if you dont spam things down. (Especially after you get all the upgrades.) Likewise aliens will get 2 normal 6 for gorgs every few seconds if they have 6 or so nodes in a smaller game. (Which is alot considering.)

Now i think its tougher for marines because if they camp in the base they will lose. They need to blitz a hive and then work on the other two quick... Even with two hives aliens are go from afraid of dark corners to afraid of everything thanks to the new fades. That said, a full lmg clip will kill one and these arn't the hardest targets in the world. (unless they have celerity and blink alot.) If you are moving with the buddy system (always hold hands when crossing bacterium), you shouldn't have much problem. I still like being a lerk because they have the best survival ratio of all of them, thanks to umbra. (Save onos but even them are bullet magnets, lerks are harder to hit, plus decent life in comparison to some and umbra.)

On the other hand, aliens team work is now much more devestating than it was before, now that acid rocket is uber. Three fades will rack up quite a body count. Then again, so will three accurate marines with hmgs. Everything has a counter balance now, fades are the anti turret farm mid game, they just happened to gain skill at stomping marines as well.

RotA_Plague · November 2002

Well franky to say the truth I do feel that marines have a slight lower hand, but not completely for what people normally think... From my experience up to this point people that play aliens have figured out that groups of skulks kill with insane speed and power, surprise is not needed(the way it should be). While most marines haven't figured out that groups of 4 at a distance from each other can take a few skulks with the same speed due to when a skulk is going to bite your marine comrad you shoot at the skulk going around him, trust me, if tountment mode is off then he won't take damage plus the skulk will die and he might just live! One other thing is skulk rades they seem a little to much at times because while the skulks are rading what are their gorges doing? Building! Building Building! While marines are busy with taking out the skulks. And after a few games I have relized the first few seconds of the game desides most of the outcome, if marines can keep the skulks off and get at least 6 turrets at base, infantry portal(s), a armory, and a turret factory of course(not in that order) then they should be able to expand fast enough to keep the skulks off and secure a hive or 2. Most of the things that are happening is tatics and skill on the alien side advancing more because of 1.0's problems, aliens had to learn how to be a powerful and unforgetable foe, while marines were busy being rambo with HA and HMGs and GLs. Hence give it time and marines will learn but don't forget you win those first few seconds/minutes of the game and you win!

Edit: Oh yeah, I can see the new resource model very easy from the commanders seat or even from a adverage foot soldier.

Canonfodder · November 2002

this generally seems retarded to me. Instead making suggestions to balance a beta 1 release game, just get more skilled...

Lacrox · November 2002

I don't know why people complain, unless its a bug your not allowed to IMO. You were given this game for free, rather than complaining they should try helping.

ViolenceJack · November 2002

Well ok why doesnt every one stop complaining and we can just leave the game to be pretty much alien win unless marines are very good or aliens are very very bad. out of about 8 games i have played since v1.01 marines have won once, maybe i been unlucky to see any marine winning games.

The only thing i thought was ever wrong was for aliens taking out sgs, i dunno what all the droping of marine power was about. there was abit about fade though, he was abit of a slow one. plus he died abit quick. maybe that was due to him been slow.

SuperMunchkin · November 2002

Jack, most likely the commanders haven't had much experience. Before patch, you didn't need to worry about capturing and holding nodes for resources, now you do. The alien players already have a pretty good idea what needs to be done- while MANY players are still new to the commander chair.

I've heard SO many people whine about the marines STILL being overpowered- and just as many complain that the aliens are now unstoppable. Explain to me how both can be true?

Give it time. Experienced and good commanders (and I mean REALLY good) will come about. Strategies and abilities for both sides will be learnt by all and all will be good.

But it's not going to happen overnight. The games a week old, and has already been patched once. For the love of all that is holy: GIVE IT TIME.

F_o_RStorm · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoDum @ Nov 7 2002, 10:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>As far as I know the resource model wasn't changed. It is the same as far as i can tell.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
..Yes it was. There was a -bad- marine resource bug. That's why everyone is complaining about marines being too weak now. Because they can no longer have 20 turrets at spawn and a whole team with HA/HMGs/All upgrades. They -have- to use teamwork like the marines were intended to when the game was released.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>And worse is that they cant understand what a freaking defence chamber does! 8 offence chambers + 3-4 Defence chambers is IMPOSSEBLE TO KILL (with web including) if marines hasnt nade launcher, they heal 40 hp ever second! Thats much! even a siege cannon cant kill that!</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Not quite. A GL or Seige can easily take that out. I've seen it done many times. Plus, the max ammount of defensive chambers that can be healing a unit at the same time is 3. Any more won't do anything. Nothing in NS is indestructable.

Just because you can't kill everything rambo-style as a marine, doesn't mean the teams are unbalanced. It means you need to re-adjust to the inititally intended mechanics of the game, and use teamwork as marines. Just because you die, doesn't make it the game's fault. Suck it up and realise that you haven't played that long, and this game requires learning.

Stop The Whinning!

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