<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Jun 27 2004, 09:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jun 27 2004, 09:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mendasp+Jun 27 2004, 01:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Jun 27 2004, 01:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Jun 27 2004, 06:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jun 27 2004, 06:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> All in all it looks good. My only suggestion in those shots is that you rework the opening in the tram to line up better with the texture <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> hmm, could you explain a bit more? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It fits well at the top, but at the bottom it cuts off the curve in that part of the texture a little awkwardly. It may not be possible to get a clean Onos sized opening out of that texture though. I wouldn't sweat it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, that's the problem, if I make it follow the texture, the onos will have to crouch (it would be as wide as the old one...), so that's the best thing I could do...
Looks good. I'm pretty sure it will be a more fun map to play now, even though some of the things that made ns_bast...ns_bast, had to go. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> true true....
Actually I'm so happy that you did add another exit to the engine hive. I'm very pleased with the fact you removed the ms elevator. "Removing" the MS' rotating door I find very good as well. However, Many, including me, thinks it's something that <i>made</i> bast feel like what it is.
I'm a little worried about <b>Junction.</b> Have you done it so that these 2 rotating doors still serve some purpose in U.C.C Bast? I'm still happy you didn't remove them completely.
I know there are many who are afraid of these changes, but we should definetly at least give it a try.. I'm really looking forward seeing how these changes will affect the gameplay of ns_bast. Hope they'll make ns_bast even better and more enjoyable. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
why is engine slanted..... it looks crushed now and the back exit looks silly
why are the boxes outside of ms lit up in a sort of display
dont get me wrong but main aft is one of the things that made bast, well bast. It did have bugs but you didnt need to remove its purpose and make it a spam hole
the lighting seems to be more constrated on points.... more doging for the eyes
Well it makes a good NEW map as others stated but good job on freaking the remake
Ref still lookes like a very marine-friendly hive, just some stuff - pipes or sluices or whatever - to give skulks some cover might be worth it. But it deserves a playtest as-is.
yea my main beef is with the omission of the airlock and instead this newfangled exit from marine start. It makes MS seem excessively accessible, like it's just a doorway away from the rest of the station, although MS is actually the docking bay of the ship. I realize airlock was laggy, but it was excessively important to the map and this new devoid-of-personality exit from MS doesn't cut it. I think you could do a lot better by replacing the airlock with a slow series of doors (like in the old caged). That new exit is gonna really divert strategic attention from where it should be paid, and make it more ... dare I say combattish. It would be getting rid of the Main Aft Junction lockdown, which is an underused but gleaming paragon of NS strategy... and simplifying the whole map into corridors rather than emplacements. I hope you reconsider those changes and get rid of the new MS exit, and put in the original airlock route.
Looking good Mendasp. I'll have to play it to get a good feel, but it does look like a solid new layout. Bast did have issues, but it's always been my favorite NS map. From what I can see, many of those issues seem to be gone and the map will hopefully get some much deserved praise from the community,
Nice layout. Really a huge improvement. MS doesn't look like as much of a deathtrap, and the map isn't so linear anymore (more than one way to get places). The only problem I still see is that damn water tunnel. Its so lamable for aliens. Every single game I play where marines win, we end up building 20 or so seiges and then pinging the tunnel. Quite satisfying to see the entire alien team die in one salvo, but time consuming and pointless.
<!--QuoteBegin-Dorian Gray+Jun 28 2004, 09:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dorian Gray @ Jun 28 2004, 09:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Nice layout. Really a huge improvement. MS doesn't look like as much of a deathtrap, and the map isn't so linear anymore (more than one way to get places). The only problem I still see is that damn water tunnel. Its so lamable for aliens. Every single game I play where marines win, we end up building 20 or so seiges and then pinging the tunnel. Quite satisfying to see the entire alien team die in one salvo, but time consuming and pointless. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can't build in the underwater tunnel anymore.
I can't add stairs for replacing the ramp in the MS for r_speeds issues.
Also, to the people that said "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Well, bast <b>WAS</b> broken, wake up.
dont think ill be playing this again, too much changed, not the same<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Stick your head out of your ****.
I've been following NS since way before release, and playing NS since 1.0. Bast has always had one of the WORST layouts in the entire game.
What the hell are you talking about with "the 1.04 crew" more like "the retrograde crew", you're that kind of person that's afraid of the changes "OMGZZZ NS SUXXXXXX BRING BAX NS 1.04!!1111111 FLAYRA SI BROKANING TEH NS". 1.04 is dead, get over it. And it wasn't all that great.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hibame+Jun 28 2004, 04:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hibame @ Jun 28 2004, 04:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->why is engine slanted..... it looks crushed now and the back exit looks silly
why are the boxes outside of ms lit up in a sort of display
dont get me wrong but main aft is one of the things that made bast, well bast. It did have bugs but you didnt need to remove its purpose and make it a spam hole
the lighting seems to be more constrated on points.... more doging for the eyes<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> - Engine... slanted? good job! I didn't change engine at all, except for adding that entrance. Next time make sure it's not the angle of the pic.
- The boxes are there because it's a vis blocker, unless you want to play with 1200 wpoly, of course...
- Oh, of course, I ruined Main Aft on purpose! and tomorrow I'll take over the world because I'm an evil mapper and I'm sending messages to Al-Qaeda in my maps! Call the FBI!
- The lighting is exactly the same, nice imaginary changes... In fact, I tried to make less contrasted some parts on the map, like feedwater, but ok, whatever you want to see, ok?
PS: Sorry for this, but I just can't stand these kind of comments anymore...
The remake didn't take too long because, well, it was just remaking existing architecture, but it's not like these changes were easy to do, it took a long while to find a solution without removing other memorable places in bast, but if you want I can totally fix the layout deleting EM Drill Shaft, Observation bridge and Refinery and making new areas (and other ones would have to be modified, of course), now, noone would be happy about that, but thanks for your comprehension anyways. It looks very easy when you're just looking, right?
your doing well the image made it look like you had brightend upp tram tunnel, and allso engine, but scins you say you havent, we will have to trust you
I have to agree with Windelkron , the new MS exit would make the map too straightforward and combat-ish. But there's a compromise to keep that new room , and keep Main Aft's strategic value. Replace the revolving door with 2 slow airlocks , and place a door at the new MS exit , that can be opened and closed from the computer console at the moved Ref node : it would give an incentive to the marines to hold theses 2 locations , blocking alien movements. Maybe also add a res node to the new room.
A smooth flow is good , but making Bast too accessible would hurt its unique constricting feel.
You all do remember what the revolving door was like don't you? How it essentially commited you to an area when you had no idea what was on the other side? How it grouped everyone up into a tiny little knot (if everyone going through could all fit together at all) so that the other team could just blast the crap out of you. It was great atmosphere, but it sucked for gameplay. Two slow moving doors would be about the same. Why do you think those doors were pulled from caged? It's stupid to have expensive units die because of a door. I know there are lots of arguments against this, but unless you're going to write them all in the map in such a way that pubbers will actually read it they aren't worth beans.
Engine rooms can have exits in the back of them. Hell your car has an entire cabin and trunk behind its engine. The purpose of those engines was never defined anyways. They could have been powerplants that drive life support for the whole ship. Maybe they power the refinery (would explain how the infection spread between those two hives). Point is that they were never listed as ships engines.
Anyways, great work Mend. I know how hard it is for you to work on this project, especially when you get tons of flak from people who want their nostalgic views back, not the less-than-great that actually was.
it's much better than 1.04 bast, both in looks and gameplay. A winner is you <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
hmm, could you explain a bit more? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It fits well at the top, but at the bottom it cuts off the curve in that part of the texture a little awkwardly. It may not be possible to get a clean Onos sized opening out of that texture though. I wouldn't sweat it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, that's the problem, if I make it follow the texture, the onos will have to crouch (it would be as wide as the old one...), so that's the best thing I could do...
Good job.
gg.
the other 2 hives are relativly close, yet ref hive is still quite far away
Looks good. I'm pretty sure it will be a more fun map to play now, even though some of the things that made ns_bast...ns_bast, had to go. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
true true....
RIP Airlock <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'm a little worried about <b>Junction.</b> Have you done it so that these 2 rotating doors still serve some purpose in U.C.C Bast? I'm still happy you didn't remove them completely.
I know there are many who are afraid of these changes, but we should definetly at least give it a try.. I'm really looking forward seeing how these changes will affect the gameplay of ns_bast. Hope they'll make ns_bast even better and more enjoyable. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
why change a totally ok map, that diddnt really have any problems?
its not a "re-make" its a NEW map,
engine now sux, rotated, no more main aft re-locate..
either team could lame up the rooms each side of marine start and pwn the map?
the old saying comes into mind,
"if it aint broke, dont fix it"
i have played bast alot since it has been re-made and i would say its about 50/50 on which side wins.... now its just gonna plain suck..
thats my opinion any ways.... thoes who like it, good luck, but i feel most will hate it,
especially the 1.04 crew (like me)
dont think ill be playing this again, too much changed, not the same
I didnt see anything wrong with the latest remake which was fine but now this has gone way beyond the work of a remake.
Dont get me wrong the remake team are great mappers and did a great job up until now but it will never be the same especially for the 1.04 players.
Chances are that alot of people will not look at bast in the same way ever again.
<!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Relic is the king
why are the boxes outside of ms lit up in a sort of display
dont get me wrong but main aft is one of the things that made bast, well bast. It did have bugs but you didnt need to remove its purpose and make it a spam hole
the lighting seems to be more constrated on points.... more doging for the eyes
Well it makes a good NEW map as others stated but good job on freaking the remake
Ref still lookes like a very marine-friendly hive, just some stuff - pipes or sluices or whatever - to give skulks some cover might be worth it. But it deserves a playtest as-is.
AN NS BAST WITH GOOD GAMEPLAY........
You can't build in the underwater tunnel anymore.
I can't add stairs for replacing the ramp in the MS for r_speeds issues.
Also, to the people that said "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Well, bast <b>WAS</b> broken, wake up.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ghozer+Jun 28 2004, 02:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ghozer @ Jun 28 2004, 02:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->especially the 1.04 crew (like me)
dont think ill be playing this again, too much changed, not the same<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stick your head out of your ****.
I've been following NS since way before release, and playing NS since 1.0. Bast has always had one of the WORST layouts in the entire game.
What the hell are you talking about with "the 1.04 crew" more like "the retrograde crew", you're that kind of person that's afraid of the changes "OMGZZZ NS SUXXXXXX BRING BAX NS 1.04!!1111111 FLAYRA SI BROKANING TEH NS". 1.04 is dead, get over it. And it wasn't all that great.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hibame+Jun 28 2004, 04:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hibame @ Jun 28 2004, 04:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->why is engine slanted..... it looks crushed now and the back exit looks silly
why are the boxes outside of ms lit up in a sort of display
dont get me wrong but main aft is one of the things that made bast, well bast. It did have bugs but you didnt need to remove its purpose and make it a spam hole
the lighting seems to be more constrated on points.... more doging for the eyes<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- Engine... slanted? good job! I didn't change engine at all, except for adding that entrance. Next time make sure it's not the angle of the pic.
- The boxes are there because it's a vis blocker, unless you want to play with 1200 wpoly, of course...
- Oh, of course, I ruined Main Aft on purpose! and tomorrow I'll take over the world because I'm an evil mapper and I'm sending messages to Al-Qaeda in my maps! Call the FBI!
- The lighting is exactly the same, nice imaginary changes... In fact, I tried to make less contrasted some parts on the map, like feedwater, but ok, whatever you want to see, ok?
PS: Sorry for this, but I just can't stand these kind of comments anymore...
The remake didn't take too long because, well, it was just remaking existing architecture, but it's not like these changes were easy to do, it took a long while to find a solution without removing other memorable places in bast, but if you want I can totally fix the layout deleting EM Drill Shaft, Observation bridge and Refinery and making new areas (and other ones would have to be modified, of course), now, noone would be happy about that, but thanks for your comprehension anyways. It looks very easy when you're just looking, right?
the image made it look like you had brightend upp tram tunnel, and allso engine, but scins you say you havent, we will have to trust you
A smooth flow is good , but making Bast too accessible would hurt its unique constricting feel.
Engine rooms can have exits in the back of them. Hell your car has an entire cabin and trunk behind its engine. The purpose of those engines was never defined anyways. They could have been powerplants that drive life support for the whole ship. Maybe they power the refinery (would explain how the infection spread between those two hives). Point is that they were never listed as ships engines.
Anyways, great work Mend. I know how hard it is for you to work on this project, especially when you get tons of flak from people who want their nostalgic views back, not the less-than-great that actually was.
come on - at least keep the old one, and make this bast2, like dust2
PS> U F00KED up big time.
PPS> Let me see what its like to play, but, this should be ns_bast2, not bast