Fahrenheit 911

DubbilexDubbilex Chump Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9799Members
<div class="IPBDescription">WHoa</div> Well, I decided to see Michael Moore's newest depressingly-punditlike movie today - and I bear good news.

I in fact, despite not being a large MM fan, enjoyed this movie perhaps more than any other so far this year. While he puts much spin indeed on essentially everything he says, there are certain segments where it's just so raw and emotional that any input from our erstwhile renegade is unnecessary and would only serve to cheapen the message.

Overall, I recommend this movie to anybody, Bush-hater or otherwise. It was a truly memorable film, even for a cynical bastard like me and deserves a watch from everyone.

That being said, has anybody see it who has any comments/discussions to bring forth?
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Comments

  • pardzhpardzh Join Date: 2002-10-25 Member: 1601Members
    edited June 2004
    Caaaaan't wait to see it.

    Saw him on the Daily Show last night and he just reaffirmed how much I like the guy. Jon Steward asked him, "Are you fair?" and he immediately responded with a No. Just made me laugh, thinking about, on the flipside of the coin, hearing "Fair and Balanced News" from Fox all the time, while he freely acknowledges having a slant to his films.

    Finished up chatting with a friend on AIM who returned from it singing praises not too long ago. In his own words, he walked into the theater not minding Bush, and walked out of it wanting to knife him. The only thing he said he didn't like were the graphic depictions of the war in Iraq, apparently there's some pretty nasty footage of soldiers in battle.

    Not too enthused about seeing that, but it won't stop me from going to see the rest of the film.

    <b>Edit:</b> Ninja edit for clarity and stuff.
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    I'm gonna wait till it comes out on video, sounds pretty good though.
  • BigBullBigBull Join Date: 2003-04-02 Member: 15123Members
    all this movie is, is a series of events that have happened to bush.

    all of them bad. Very buyest. He even admitted it, like he was doing the country a favor..


    *cant wait to see it*
  • DubbilexDubbilex Chump Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9799Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Duff-Man+Jun 25 2004, 08:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Duff-Man @ Jun 25 2004, 08:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ... The only thing he said he didn't like were the graphic depictions of the war in Iraq, apparently there's some pretty nasty footage of soldiers in battle.

    Not too enthused about seeing that, but it won't stop me from going to see the rest of the film.

    <b>Edit:</b> Ninja edit for clarity and stuff. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah - there were scenes of the bombings in Baghdad as well as many scenes of wounded folks being evacuated, as well as dead being thrown on the back of wagons to be buried. It was heartbreaking, but I felt it helped the message.

    And also, folks, it's important to remember that this movie is basically an editorial in visual form - Michael Moore never claimed to be a fair and unbiased "reporter" - he's always written and directed to fit his views, as any critic would do. The great thing about him is that he doesn't pretend otherwise, or that what he says is necessarily the absolute truth.

    Anyways, go see it - immediately. YOU WILL BE MOVED!
  • QuaunautQuaunaut The longest seven days in history... Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    I wanted to, but the girlie didn't want to, and its Rated R. I just gotta find a way to see it, being my mom thinks Michael Moore is a extremist bastard who is the next Timothy McVeigh.

    I too saw it on The Daily Show- what is this, his 6th time on there? And I loved what Duff quoted earlier(I remember hearing it)- it kinda cought me off guard, and made me appreciate the guy. I mean, he didn't even think about it, you could tell that was a natural response.
  • BigBullBigBull Join Date: 2003-04-02 Member: 15123Members
    what i hate, is it will just be made out to be another propaganda movie, and just give kerry the votes.
  • AllUrHiveRblong2usAllUrHiveRblong2us By Your Powers Combined... Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11244Members
    Good movie, very good movie. Most of it is basically the information in his newest book expanded on and presented in an actual entertaining manner. Lot of Bush being dumb, lot of people getting killed for no reason, and it succeeded in infuriating me to no end that these people are actually in power in the US. I think it was better than BFC myself, but others may disagree.
  • DOOManiacDOOManiac Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
    I dunno if I wanna see this or not. I saw like 10 minutes for Bowling for Columbine and it really **** me off, but then again I like guns and am in favor of them being in our culture.

    Politics though.. bleh. They are all idiots, on both sides of the fence and everywhere in between. I hate Moore, Bush, Kerry, Rumsfeld, Clinton, Bush Sr., Colin Powell, and Anacondalinachakitabanana Rice, and anyone else in there that I missed. :X

    In fact, they should just use a giant laser to cut Washington D.C. away from the rest of the continent and just let it fall back into the ocean...





    And now that I've typed all that out I can't remember why...
  • NumbersNotFoundNumbersNotFound Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7556Members
    After seeing the trailer i'm already turned off to F911, and, as much as i'd like to be an "informed" person who can discuss current events, I <i>really</i> don't wanna support Moore in any way.

    After the buildup of congressmen not reading bills to be a *gasp* moment, and the whole "watch this drive" thing, i'd think it a waste of my time to watch the rest.

    I also like people who call it a "serious" movie, yet a clip I saw on Letterman has a shot of Bush riding in a golf cart with the music "vacation" playing (hardly dramatic). Also, I totally support the ability for him to make a biased movie, but what I don't agree with is his Oscar win and his subsequent categorizations of "documentary." A documentary is the exact opposite of "bias," and the very fact that he recognizes that he himself is bias and still continues to say "documentary" is sad.
  • UZiUZi Eight inches of C4 between the legs. Join Date: 2003-02-20 Member: 13767Members
    I'm going to waste my money elsewere. That movie ticket is good for ammo money! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • InfinitumInfinitum Anime Encyclopedia Join Date: 2002-08-08 Member: 1111Members, Constellation
    I'm gonna wait till somebody posts a Truth Behind Fahrenheit 911 article before I go see this....
  • panda_de_malheureuxpanda_de_malheureux Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24775Members
    And then wait for Moores rebuttle?
  • NetherNether Join Date: 2003-01-21 Member: 12530Members
    If you have seen Bowling for Columbine read this:

    <a href='http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html' target='_blank'>http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html</a>

    I think ill give F911 a miss thanks.
  • OmegamanOmegaman Join Date: 2004-01-11 Member: 25239Members
    I listened to Michael Moore on the radio with Howard Stern this morning. For the entire morning block, Howard would not stop talking about how great it was. <b>He likes it even more than Super Toopers.</b> Believe me, that's saying something. He kept talking with Michael Moore about his favorite scenes, and from his description of them, I am now offically hooked on seeing this.

    Think of it as the "The Passion of Christ" of politics.
  • NumbersNotFoundNumbersNotFound Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7556Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-version91x+Jun 25 2004, 11:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (version91x @ Jun 25 2004, 11:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And then wait for Moores rebuttle? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yes, the rebuttal that calls those who disagree with him "wackos" and doesn't actually answer any of the questions posed by any critic.
  • TenSixTenSix Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7932Members
    I have lots of problems with Moore, but what really gets to me is him passing his movies off as documentaries. They aren't truthful except in the least bit, even presentation of basic facts and numbers is manipulated or flat out wrong.

    So if its not a documentary, what is it? Its a biased film created specifically to further Moore's cause by manipulation and misrepresentation of factual or completely false information. That fits the definition of a propaganda film like a boot.

    If Michael Moore was anything else other than a film maker, he would be passed off as a conspiracy theorist.
  • OmegamanOmegaman Join Date: 2004-01-11 Member: 25239Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-TenSix+Jun 26 2004, 12:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TenSix @ Jun 26 2004, 12:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have lots of problems with Moore, but what really gets to me is him passing his movies off as documentaries. They aren't truthful except in the least bit, even presentation of basic facts and numbers is manipulated or flat out wrong.

    So if its not a documentary, what is it? Its a biased film created specifically to further Moore's cause by manipulation and misrepresentation of factual or completely false information. That fits the definition of a propaganda film like a boot.

    If Michael Moore was anything else other than a film maker, he would be passed off as a conspiracy theorist. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Did you see it?
  • QuaunautQuaunaut The longest seven days in history... Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin-TenSix+Jun 25 2004, 10:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TenSix @ Jun 25 2004, 10:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have lots of problems with Moore, but what really gets to me is him passing his movies off as documentaries. They aren't truthful except in the least bit, even presentation of basic facts and numbers is manipulated or flat out wrong.

    So if its not a documentary, what is it? Its a biased film created specifically to further Moore's cause by manipulation and misrepresentation of factual or completely false information. That fits the definition of a propaganda film like a boot.

    If Michael Moore was anything else other than a film maker, he would be passed off as a conspiracy theorist. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Not that I agree or disagree with Moore- what the hell is Bush doing? And Clinton Before him? And Bush Sr. Before him? EVERY SINGLE PRESIDENT <u><b>EVER</b></u> puts out propaganda and engineers public opinion. But right now we are approaching 1 of 2 things- the 2nd American revolution(which I'd love), or a redo of the 60s/70s way of beating up the president's image, because the president let things go a bit too loose with what the public gets to know, and it came back to bite him on the ****.
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Jun 26 2004, 12:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Jun 26 2004, 12:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-TenSix+Jun 25 2004, 10:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TenSix @ Jun 25 2004, 10:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have lots of problems with Moore, but what really gets to me is him passing his movies off as documentaries. They aren't truthful except in the least bit, even presentation of basic facts and numbers is manipulated or flat out wrong.

    So if its not a documentary, what is it? Its a biased film created specifically to further Moore's cause by manipulation and misrepresentation of factual or completely false information. That fits the definition of a propaganda film like a boot.

    If Michael Moore was anything else other than a film maker, he would be passed off as a conspiracy theorist. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Not that I agree or disagree with Moore- what the hell is Bush doing? And Clinton Before him? And Bush Sr. Before him? EVERY SINGLE PRESIDENT <u><b>EVER</b></u> puts out propaganda and engineers public opinion. But right now we are approaching 1 of 2 things- the 2nd American revolution(which I'd love), or a redo of the 60s/70s way of beating up the president's image, because the president let things go a bit too loose with what the public gets to know, and it came back to bite him on the ****. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    They are all just casting the picture for you to see it the way they do. The halftruths and lies that they belive they want you to belive. Propaganda in this day in age is nothing more than advertizing your opinion as fact. No one is intentionally lying to anyone, they acctually belive what they are saying.
  • QuaunautQuaunaut The longest seven days in history... Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Exactly. But at the same time- the Presidents have people who tell them what it looks like, so it becomes obvious to them- and then they make it worse.
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Jun 26 2004, 12:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Jun 26 2004, 12:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Exactly. But at the same time- the Presidents have people who tell them what it looks like, so it becomes obvious to them- and then they make it worse. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Except that it ussually doesn't look bad at all unless you have a decent ability to think critically about what you are seeing, which effectively axes a massive percentage of our population. Most presidents surround themselfs with yesmen anyways, how do you think the fact that there was no real evidence of WMD in Iraq didn't manage to reach Bush until after he attacked?
  • jumpingjodajumpingjoda Join Date: 2003-12-14 Member: 24367Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    To all moore haters:
    You think all he says is wrong?
    Well you saw the first scene in that bank? While he opened an account and got a weapon as a gift.... IN A BANK!

    And did you see the scene where he was talking to that kid who knew the colombine murders? Or the scene where he talked to the NRA president... Why he had no answers? As moore asled him few questions he just left without saying anything, that was the most impressive sceene i ever saw in a DOCUMENTARY! Yes it is a documentary.
    Bowlong for colombine is NOT only a "say no to bush" movie, it shows some major problems that the USA have, and which should not be looked over.
  • MrMojoMrMojo Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9882Members, Constellation
    <a href='http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html' target='_blank'>http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html</a>
  • eedioteediot Join Date: 2003-02-24 Member: 13903Members
    its funny.. people watch a movie telling people to be critical of everything you know or hear

    and yet they accept the movie at face value

    note: truth about bowling

    its NOT A BLOODY DOCUMENTARY

    its a movie.. read the above link
  • EpidemicEpidemic Dark Force Gorge Join Date: 2003-06-29 Member: 17781Members
    edited June 2004
    It's not like he used CGI or something, just clever editing.. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    btw. Guns sucks, so you hippies can keep them for yourself.. The moment guns is a part of my culture is the day I move to another country.. Lame - **** excuse..
  • ironpancakeironpancake Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16643Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-jumpingjoda+Jun 26 2004, 08:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (jumpingjoda @ Jun 26 2004, 08:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bowlong for colombine is NOT only a "say no to bush" movie, it shows some major problems that the USA have, and which should not be looked over. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Bowling for Columbine had absolutely nothing to do with George Bush....
  • jumpingjodajumpingjoda Join Date: 2003-12-14 Member: 24367Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin-ironpancake+Jun 26 2004, 03:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ironpancake @ Jun 26 2004, 03:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bowling for Columbine had absolutely nothing to do with George Bush.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    True. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • AllUrHiveRblong2usAllUrHiveRblong2us By Your Powers Combined... Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11244Members
    For those of you smacking on F9/11 just because of BFC, I can see why you would. BFC was probably his worst film. In many places the interviews were obviously doctored, although I still believe the core message of the film holds true. As for F9/11 he seems to have learned his lesson. Nearly all of the interviews are either with people he knows will tell him what he wants to hear, or with people greiving over the loss of loved ones in the war, and in either case there is no need to doctor those interviews. And most of the facts presented are simple foolow-the-money stuff, linking GW to just about everyone with money in the US and Saudia Arabia, most of which a well educated person would already know.

    Like I said, I think F9/11 is much better than BFC. The only spots where you can see him messing with footage is when he takes one or two bits of GW preparing for soem sort of adress (and not saying anything) and re-uses them for comedic value.
  • SaltzBadSaltzBad Join Date: 2004-02-23 Member: 26833Members
    Documentarys are by natured biased. They're to some extent still oppinion pieces about non-fiction events, and not absolute truths. I don't see why that should be different for a MM film.
  • DubbilexDubbilex Chump Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9799Members
    Regarding the comment about this being biased: READ THE THREAD, FOR GOD'S SAKE, <u>BEFORE</u> POSTING ANYTHING. It has been said by the man himself that this movie is an editorial (<b>NOT A BLOODY DOCUMENTARY</b> - the one time he calls it a 'documentary' in the movie was to avoid being arrested by the Secret Service while he was filming outside the Saudi National Embassy) - it has as much spin as he wants it to have. Show me where he wrote in ink and signed in blood a leter promising that he was being completely "fair and balanced" or was in "the no spin zone." The answer is that he simply never did. Take the movie or leave it - if you see it, you will be moved and that's a promise. There is absolutely no way you won't be.

    And socondly, regarding the usage of campy music: yes, Moore uses this in basically every piece of published literature or cinema he's involved with. And example again, is in this move where while talking about The Bush-approved 'airlift' of dozens of Saudi Royal family members and Bin Laden Family members out of the country on September 13 2001, the music is "We Gotta get Out of This Place" by the Animals as it showed (addmitedly not necessarily) one of their planes taking off. These moments of camp serve to further the message, by injecting American ulture into the movie. The Vacaton song is by...the Go-Go's, I think? That's used to cast a whimsical air on Dubya's frequent and outrageous vacations that he takes to his nice l'il ranch in Texas.

    It would probably surprise you all to know that, in Early August (while GWB was playing golf in texas on vacation, no less), he was handed security briefings saying that Osama Bin Laden was planning a hit inside the United States? The man ignored them and continued to play golf. They were actually entitled something like "Osama Bin Laden threatens to strike inside United States" (a line emphasized by Condoleeza Rice and included by Moore to counter Bush's laxadaisical attitude towards it)

    Trust me - Bush Supporter of not, your view of the man will change in the wake of this movie. If you're not seeing it just to keep ignorant and to keep GWB's reputation smelling like roses, I suppose that would be your perogative. Just don't complain when nearly everyone else who doesn't adopt this ostrichlike head-in-the-ground policy is far more informed and educated than you yourself are.
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